Englands 25-PDVC problem

[petejung]

Hey everyone... Having a problem with my stove, wondering if anyone has had any similar experiences, just to make sure I'm on the right track here. I have called tech support and they are sending out parts for repair.

Anyway, here goes:

Stove has been running just fine since first installed. We've run 3 bags of pellets through it, mostly on heat range #1.

This morning, it was our coldest morning yet. So, I turned the heat range up to 5 and the blower to 8, and went up to take a shower. Came downstairs, and turned the heat range down to 1 and the blower to 3. The next thing that happened is the fire went out (after approx 10 minutes). I noticed the top auger wasn't turning any more, shut the stdove off, and went to work. I came home and called the guys at Englands to get some help.

I can't even remember the result of the first call. I think it was one of those "well, it's working now" things, and we said our goodbyes... I was on my way back to work and the wife called, said the fire was out and there's smoke coming out of the bottom of the unit.

I came home and called again. This time, the tech said it may be the door switch. So, we high -sided that, and the stove worked for about 10 minutes, then shut off again. I could hear the other vacuum switch (the one for the exhaust) clicking continuously.

So, while I was on the phone waiting for the tech, I high-sided that switch, and the stove kept running. Once I got on with the tech, he asked me a bunch of questions about my location, my vent pipe, etc., and basically he decided that it looked like that switch was bad.

I have a few things to check yet tonight when I get home, and I intende to pull that exhaust switch and hit it with some air, same with the hose connected to it.

I'm just a little concerned - everything was working fine, then all of the sudden it just turned to cr@p. We've really enjoyed the stove so far...I'm hoping that this doesn't turn into a nightmare and the new switches fix the problem. I'm not in any way bashing Englands...Like I said, we like the stove a lot... Just inexperienced with these things and looking for a little help.

Has anyone had any similar experiences, or any ideas on anything that could be causing the problem that I could be looking for?

Thanks everyone! Hopefully, I'll be able to return the favor some day.

 

[webbie]

Hard to troubleshoot stoves from afar - some of the englander guys are on the forum, and will be responding...I'm sure.

BUT, one thing that I would consider is whether you even want to set the stove on the lowest (#1?) setting. Pellets vary, as does draft and other factors and I have seen stoves that tend to go out (not enough critical mass) on very low settings. They may have an adjustment for this...

As far as smoke coming out, keep in mind that once the fire goes out in the middle of a cycle...and no more heat (or too little) is activating the blower switch, then smoke would/could come out through any opening. This is possible with just about any pellet stove, but does not happen much - especially if there is a lot of "rise" in the pellet vent. This creates some natural draft which may make the smoke empty out.

When your wife saw the smoke, it might have helped for here to turn the thing on....maybe....because then at least the combustion fan would get going.

 

[petejung]

I sort of figure that the smoke she was seeing was due to that fire just sort of sitting there smoldering, as that is what I was when it happened to me. unfortunately, the only way to keep the blower on is to hi-side that vacuum switch, which she would not have been able to figure out how to do... Plus, I'd prefer to have that particular swithc operating normally anyway, as that switch actually servers a good purpose.

One thing I wish that England's would change - It seems like when the exhaust switch is tripped, it shuts off the whole stove, b/c it thinks the exhaust has a problem. It would be nice if they just had it wired to shut off everything except the exhaust. I can't see a reason why you'd want to shut the exhaust off, but if there is one, I'm sure one of the experts will fill me in.

 

[kutch2001]

I have the same model, but made in 2000, and when it was working, never ran below 3 / 3 as had problems keeping the fire lit.

Also, someone told me once that it's a good idea to keep the feed and fan settings the same. I have had my stove for 7 years or so, and of that, used it for 3 years so not exactly new, but not fully used.

Something else which might be causing it is the large swings you set it to.. i.e. from 1 / 1 to 5 / 8 and then back to 1 / 1. If memory serves me correct, the unit uses temperature to determine how many pellets to feed.

 

[petejung]

I have the same model, but made in 2000, and when it was working, never ran below 3 / 3 as had problems keeping the fire lit.

Also, someone told me once that it's a good idea to keep the feed and fan settings the same. I have had my stove for 7 years or so, and of that, used it for 3 years so not exactly new, but not fully used.

Something else which might be causing it is the large swings you set it to.. i.e. from 1 / 1 to 5 / 8 and then back to 1 / 1. If memory serves me correct, the unit uses temperature to determine how many pellets to feed.

Interesting...

THe big frustration for me right now is that I'm a newbie to these stoves, and don't know what to expect, and what the variables all are. Today, it's been one thing after another, not seeming to be right - the latest is the pellets not igniting on auto-lite (see other post)...

Thanks very much for your input Kutch!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hi pete , this is mike from esw , we talked earlier, is the unit behaving now??? i forgot to tell you while we were on the phone, i hang out in here too so , if you want to pick it back up after hours you can always reach me through the forum.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I have the same model, but made in 2000, and when it was working, never ran below 3 / 3 as had problems keeping the fire lit.

Also, someone told me once that it's a good idea to keep the feed and fan settings the same. I have had my stove for 7 years or so, and of that, used it for 3 years so not exactly new, but not fully used.

Something else which might be causing it is the large swings you set it to.. i.e. from 1 / 1 to 5 / 8 and then back to 1 / 1. If memory serves me correct, the unit uses temperature to determine how many pellets to feed.

kutch, if you are still having problems with the low burn , call me i bet i can correct them for ya. number is 800-245-6489, im in from 8-5, would be ok to pm as well to figure it out but there are several questions i need to ask so it might be better if we talk first to get initial questions and after if needed i can handle via e mail or pm.

 

[kutch2001]

Not to thread hi-jack, but....

Thanks Mike. I will call after get my control board and motor (be still my beating heart).

 

[stoveguy2esw]

ok man, im here whenever, if ya want, pm me a daytime phone number when you get your parts and i'll give ya a jingle

 

[petejung]

hi pete , this is mike from esw , we talked earlier, is the unit behaving now??? i forgot to tell you while we were on the phone, i hang out in here too so , if you want to pick it back up after hours you can always reach me through the forum.

'

Hey Mike!

I don't think the stove is working properly, still. Lots of thick black smoke coming from the exhaust (outside the house), the ignitor didn't ignite the pellets on autostart (used gel to start it, the pellets only smoldered), and the flame from the fire just doesn't look right. It seemd in the past, there was more air coming through the side ports on the burn pot, and the flames stayed kind of low. Now, they seem more vertical and not as much through the burn pot. Also, the front glass is almost pitch black from smoke...

It's weird, thoug, because the only thing that changed since yesterday is the bag of pellets (and the vacuum switches going bad)...

Mike, thanks again for putting the extra time in at work today. I (and my chilly wife) really appreciate it!

 

[petejung]

I see I'm now a "burning chunk"... hehe. More liek smoldering, but I won't argue.

Anyway, I remember the other thing that got changed today. Fred had me change the Low Burn blower from 4 to 9 (the middle button on the bottom - I probably have the name of it wrong). Right after that, the combustion air switch started clicking... But I think the flames looked different before then, though...

Sorry, just wanted to make sure I was complete when I said "the only thing different is..." - I'm in a trouble-shooting job, too, so I know how it is "Oh, well, yeah, I DID spill a cup of coffee on the keyboard - didn't I mention that earlier? Oh, my bad!"

Ah, the joy's of tech support

 

[petejung]

OK... Next question. I'm thinking in my mind that the blower on the combustion side isn't strong enough... So, I took off the fresh air hose from the back of the unit, while the unit was running (supposedly drawing air), and I really didn't feel my hand getting "sucked in". I did light a match and hold it close to the orifice, and it sort of sucks in the flame, but not much at all.

Is this normal? Anything I can look at that may be causing this other than the combustion blower motor itself?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

well, you did have the E-1 shutdowns which may have sooted the stove a bit , that will cook off and dissipate, the glass should wipe right off , as for the igniter, if the wear plate is not cleared each start , simply lift out and dump to the side, ash can get pushed into the igniter hole which plugs it up a bit. when the unit is cold next, before restarting , take a toothpick and ream out the hole to open the airway , then suck it out with a vac right against the igniter hole, should fire normally after that, and remember , when you fire up , always clear that wear plate first, takes just a second and it ensures a clean start. as for the unit , keep an eye on it for a while, if the fire doesnt stabilise, let me know, it should but may take a little burning to burn away the soot from the shutdowns. i'll be up for a couple more hours working on our country club's website , i'll monitor this thread, let me know if you run into difficulty

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I have a few things to check yet tonight when I get home, and I intende to pull that exhaust switch and hit it with some air, same with the hose connected to it.

i pulled this from your first post DONT BLOW AIR INTO THE SWITCH ITSELF just through the hose and the metal tube that connects to the exhaust housing, blowing air into the switch will rupture the diapraghm in the switch and we will have problems, i have an out if you have done that , but prefer not using it, let me know if i didnt catch you in time, sorry just re-read post and saw that

 

[stoveguy2esw]

OK... Next question. I'm thinking in my mind that the blower on the combustion side isn't strong enough... So, I took off the fresh air hose from the back of the unit, while the unit was running (supposedly drawing air), and I really didn't feel my hand getting "sucked in". I did light a match and hold it close to the orifice, and it sort of sucks in the flame, but not much at all.

Is this normal? Anything I can look at that may be causing this other than the combustion blower motor itself?

it wont suck your hand up against it , but should pull a match flame in pretty well if held close might just pull flame out, but its not super strong.

 

[petejung]

Thanks, Mike.

I did stop myself from blowing air into the vacuum switch. I did suck on it with my mouth (sorry for the bad visual picture), and noticed how sensitive it was, and decided not to hit it with the air.

I just shut the stove off for now, going to wait until it cools down, and will clean everything out once again, including hitting the igniter w/ the vacuum. I'll need to wait several hours, though, before I get in there.

I'll post my results later tonight, or in the morning.

Thanks again for all your assistance!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

actually , should be safe to clean as soon as it turns off, the stove will run til it senses that its safed and then shut off. keep me posted, "i got your picture on the piano"

 

[petejung]

Well, it finally shut off. I wiped off the glass, and there's big sections of it that won't come clean. Part of it wiped right off, the rest, no luck.

I cleaned off the wear plate (always do, each start), and reamed out the element area. Turned it back on, and was a little suprised that the room blower came right on... Anyway, we'll see if it auto-ignites now or not.

 

[petejung]

No ignition. Not even smoke. It went through the whole start-up (S-U was no longer showing), and not even a wisp of smoke. The ignitor is hot, burned my fingers on the back side of it...

I haven't been this dejected in a long time - my vacuum switches don't work, my stove won't ignite, and my glass is jet black and I cannot get it clean.

Tomorrow will be a better day...

 

[GVA]

sounds like it's dirty or draft related but your in good hands with Mike...

 

[stoveguy2esw]

No ignition. Not even smoke. It went through the whole start-up (S-U was no longer showing), and not even a wisp of smoke. The ignitor is hot, burned my fingers on the back side of it...

I haven't been this dejected in a long time - my vacuum switches don't work, my stove won't ignite, and my glass is jet black and I cannot get it clean.

Tomorrow will be a better day...

ok, pm me your phone number and a good time for me to call you tomorrow,i'll pull up the hearth when i get in (usually about 7 eastern time any time after 7 is good for me) i'll definately get ya fixed, promise! (and its public so i have to (JK i'd do it anyway))

 

[petejung]

Thanks, Mike. I sent you the contact info. Let me know if you didn't get it. Otherwise, I'll talk to you tomorrow.