EPA wood fireplace to fit existing hearth?

[olsonbri]

We are about to close on a ‘foreclosure’ house that needs a fireplace. I'm attaching a photo of the room w/hearth. Long story short, the house was built in 1985 with a masonry fireplace. At some point in time, the owner tore out the masonry fireplace (inside the hearth, not outside) and put in a wood stove. When the owner left, they took the stove. So we are stuck with an open hearth.

We want a wood fireplace, and based on what I’ve read in this forum, we want a high efficiency zero clearance unit. The trick here is finding a unit that will slide in the hole without tearing everything down and starting over. The backside of the fireplace ‘hole’ is drywall on the adjacent room. The opening to the hearth is 44†W x 37†H. We live and a small town and the local fireplace installer wants us to choose from Lennox, and has pointed to the Brentwood as his recommendation ($7,600 installed w/flu, air intake, blower, etc). However, at only 35†wide the Brentwood will leave a significant ~4†gap on both sides to fill with surround. I think the KozyHeat Z42 would be a better fit (42†W x 38†H). If we went with the Z42, we need an extra inch in hearth clearance to fit it, which in my mind may mean removing raised hearth (beneath the hearth opening) to get it in, and then rebuild it.
Does anyone have any ideas as to a cost effective way to get an efficiency unit installed in this hole and had it ‘look good’?

Thanks for any help!

 

[begreen]

Greetings. It looks like they had a ZC fireplace originally, tore it out and tied a woodstove (probably illegally) into the ZC flue. Risky business by the looks of the setup with the exposed wood. Unless that is high temp pipe rated at 2100°F it can't be used for a wood stove. If you want to put in a ZC fireplace, look for a label on the pipe that has it's rating and post it here. That, and the opening size will help determine options here.

 

[olsonbri]

Thanks, if I get a chance to get in the house soon I will check the pipe size. I had anticipated on having to replace the pipe anyway

 

[begreen]

Pipe size is not so much the issue as its specifications. Look for a UL or other label on the pipe.

 

[basswidow]

I had the same deal and went with the Kozyheat Z42. The installer will make sure it's got the right HT flue. They probably already visited your house to look at the flue prior to giving an estimate. You may just need to remove the mantle (or raise it for clearances) and take one course of brick off the top opening for the fit? That's how I would do it. Get a saw that will cut the brick - or use a chisal and take one course of brick out along the top to make the hole bigger. Dont' go passed the sides of the hole. That will give you the extra inch or so. If the wood framing needs it, knock out the header from the inside and move it up - or use a saws -all and cut it to fit and then make sure the framing is right. It should be real easy to do.

I think we spent around $ 8k. For that - they installed the stove and flue, capped my chase. I did all the framing, ran elect into the hole for the blower, and did the finish work. As long as it fits the hole and the chase will accomodate the flue - you're good to go. What is the depth of the hole? Is there a way to run an outside air kit? (like a dryer vent?)

I wouldn't be too concerned about needing to do a big tear down. If that brick is just veneer over framing and backer board, it's an easy demo. I tore mine out (cultured stone). Get the fireplace installed and then put up fire rated drywall . What we did was remove enough to get the new stove installed. Used fire rated dryway to cover the framing and butted it right to the stove (which you can do with a zero clearance). Then we installed a stone like tile and grout. A mantal separates the new from the old and the look worked. Google fireplace make overs for ideas. Alittle demo might change the whole look of the hearth and fireplace. You could do a stacked stone face and it would be classy and simple. You could easily cut a foot of brick away on the sides and top. Have the stove installed. Cover it with fire rated drywall and then find some pieces of granite or marble to make a surround to finish in the empty space around it. There's so much you can do - don't be afraid to go for it.

Looking at yours, the hole looks about right - just alittle concerned about the depth. An outside air kit is not manditory but nice to have.

As for the Kozyheat Z42 - we love ours. I would not want the smaller size of the lennox. You want a big firebox and you want to maximize what you can put in that space - not leave 4 inches on either side.

 

[olsonbri]

basswidow, Thanks for your reply!! This is good news in my ears. The depth for the fit is 27", so we have just an inch over in clearance. I checked the base where the fireplace would sit...it's just a wood frame built from the slab up. So I can rebuild/lower it to get the 38" vertical clearance needed.

I measured the flu today. It's 8" inside dia. and 11" outside. Do you think the installer can use the existing pipe or need to replace? I think the heat ratings is 2100 deg (??) according to the sticker on the pipe.

Also, where is the common place to get outside air with the Z42? Up thru the chimney? In the attack via the chimney?

Thanks a lot for your help!! --Bri

 

[98dingo]

basswidow, Thanks for your reply!! This is good news in my ears. The depth for the fit is 27", so we have just an inch over in clearance. I checked the base where the fireplace would sit...it's just a wood frame built from the slab up. So I can rebuild/lower it to get the 38" vertical clearance needed.

I measured the flu today. It's 8" inside dia. and 11" outside. Do you think the installer can use the existing pipe or need to replace? I think the heat ratings is 2100 deg (??) according to the sticker on the pipe.

Also, where is the common place to get outside air with the Z42? Up thru the chimney? In the attack via the chimney?

Thanks a lot for your help!! --Bri

Sounds like you have air cooled pipe. You will need to replace it with a class A HT chimney system. The manufacture of the FP specify what systems can be used in the manual. As for you out side air, it is your choice whether to install it or not. I do not have one installed on my z42 and don't think I will need to based on performance.

 

[basswidow]

basswidow, Thanks for your reply!! This is good news in my ears. The depth for the fit is 27", so we have just an inch over in clearance. I checked the base where the fireplace would sit...it's just a wood frame built from the slab up. So I can rebuild/lower it to get the 38" vertical clearance needed.

I measured the flu today. It's 8" inside dia. and 11" outside. Do you think the installer can use the existing pipe or need to replace? I think the heat ratings is 2100 deg (??) according to the sticker on the pipe.

Also, where is the common place to get outside air with the Z42? Up thru the chimney? In the attack via the chimney?

Thanks a lot for your help!! --Bri

Bri,

you can go down too to get that extra inch. I still think it would be easier to take that inch off the top of the hole. Because you already have a good hearth and foundation.

Inside the hole - you will need electric supplied and if you want an outside air kit, you'd have to run something down and out the crawlspace or basement (like a dryer vent install). I was lucky and already had one in place. I really like the idea of the outside air feeding my stoves combustion - rather than it pulling inside air for it. But it's not necessary and probably will not make any difference what so ever. I don't know what they do for no OAK installed. Perhaps you could put the vent in the back wall ? I do not think you can run it up the chase into say attic space or chimney chase for safety reasons - you might need to check with the installer for his advice. At each floor - the flue will have fire blocking which can not be messed with.

As for the existing pipe, the Kozyheat Z42 requires a 6 in HT flue. They will not be able to use the existing 8 inch - unless they install an insulated liner to reduce it down to 6. This is a perfectly fine option. For me, the cost of the liner was the same as just putting in the new flue - so the decision was easy to make. I went with a new flue. I really feel the flue you tie into is as important then the stove. You want what's matched for the stoves requirements - so you have a good strong draft and performance. You want the install to be safe and within the manufacturers specs, plus inspected and approved after installed.

Looks like a great fireplace project - please keep us up to date and post pictures. I know you will love the kozyheat z42. It's been great for us. Really puts out the heat and has saved me thousands of dollars in propane. Paid for itself in the first year of use.

Good luck

 

[olsonbri]

Thanks a million for your help! Really helps me determine which installer I'm going to choose (will cost us more than a handyman). We'll go with the pipe replacement. So much to learn

I'll post pictures as we go. We won't touch it until we close on the house though .... Feb 24!

Thanks so much for your feedback! --Bri

 

[olsonbri]

Any recommendation as to the door model, arched double or single door?

 

[liv2hnt]

I am not familiar with the ZC stove you are discussing, but I did just have a FPX ZC installed at my house this year. My recommendation on doors would be double. We really like the double door set up and they are not as prone to sag.

I see you are from central OK as well. Where are you at exactly? I am in the Tulsa area and if you are close, I would highly recommend Raby's in Sapulpa. They are great to deal with and have excellent installers, but I am not sure they sell the line of stoves you are looking for.

Just my .02.

 

[Fechmup]

We have a Kozy Heat Z42 and LOVE it... We're approaching one year since it's installation and are using it to heat our 1800sf ranch. To date, I've burned just over 2 cords and I think I'll end up a little over 3 for the year.

The builder grade "fireplace" that came with our house was at floor level; our installer built a raised hearth and raised the header accordingly for the framework of the z42. Our install, including stone, mason work, 6" insulated pipe, and mantel was appreciably less than the number you mentioned. Whatever you decide, good luck.

Kevin

P.S. As far as the door choices go, our personal preference was for the double doors - they look more traditional to me. I like the door swing radius isn't as great on the double doors vs one big single door and I also like that there's metal door frames in the middle rather than one continuous piece of glass (for strength/support should a log roll forward).

 

[olsonbri]

We are in Stillwater. Unfortunately there appears to be only one installer in town we feel is competent to do the work. He is estimating no more than $2800 for the install only. Does this sound reasonable? The in state KozyHeat dealer quoted us $2150 for the Z42 and a mere $200 for the install. This install quote scares us (that would pay their mileage to and from at best!). So we are in not sure what to do from here. When it comes to an item like this, I'm not comfortable doing a self install. Under the conditions of our fannie mae loan, we are required to select a licensed, insured installer, anyway. Such a big discrepancy between $2800 and $200 for the two quotes we have right now. I will see if Raby's might do the work (thanks for the tip).

It sounds like we would be happier with the double door unit based on responses here! Thanks! --Bri

 

[olsonbri]

Z42CD installed! Finally I'm posting a pic. It took us eons to close on this house. Then sometime in May I did a mod on the hearth with the angle grinder, just an inch or so thru the tile & mortar to get the vertical space needed to drop the Z42 in place. Basswidow, there was a steel reinforcement plate on the top of the hole, so I didn’t want to go that route.

The Hearth Shop in Edmond, OK did the installation and for what they charged for the Z42CD and installation (they fit it in the hole and put up the new pipe), we're quite very happy.

Unfortunately, we had to remove the mantel … was told it violated fire code (combustible within 18â€). I’m going to post a new thread for ideas on how to dress up the surround. Thanks all! -Bri