Fire Chief FC1500 install

[sloeffle]

You mean SBI...
I doubt you would have told them to shove it though...most owners that had the T1 ended up with another SBI product because SBI refunded their money for the failed T1...can't beat that. The guy I got my cracked T1 from bought a Max Caddy and reports being VERY happy with it.
FYI for those that don't know...Tundra is the "big box store" version of the Caddy...and Heatpro the same for the Max Caddy...the Caddys are made by PSG, the TII and HP by Drolet, both lines owned by the parent company SBI
(Stove Builder International)

I thought PSG was the parent company. I didn't realize SBI was.

You don't know me too well then. You can have my money the first time. The second time, no way. IMHO there are plenty of other good products out there that I can choose from that will hopefully not screw me over.

 

[brenndatomu]

You can have my money the first time. The second time, no way. IMHO there are plenty of other good products out there that I can choose from that will hopefully not screw me over.

How is refunding your money "screwing you over"?
SBI built some mistakes into the T1...IMO they made it right (with everybody that had problems...as far as I've heard)
Every company builds a mistake now and again...its how they handle it that counts...HY-C should be recalling this current line of furnaces they are building IMO.
Only 1 real option for a wood furnace in this price range really (IMO)...thought that HY-C was gonna make it 2...but turns out...no.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Every company builds a mistake now and again...its how they handle it that counts....

To be fair. HY-C has been in constant contact with me working on a solution. Yes, I like to rant, but I have to give them some credit as they could of told me to pound sand by now. Going to give the 1500 a chance until all options have been tried. Fire Chief had a solid reputation for years and I hope they can get back to that point. I am willing to bet that all stove manufacturers have worked out issues by working with their customers.

While I am 1500% frustrated, I do have to give credit to the folks still responding, that includes everyone that has responded on this forum.

 

[JRHAWK9]

You are a patient man @Mrpelletburner. I'd of told HY-C to shove that furnace where the sun doesn't shine after working with them for a week or so. Honestly, I would of told PSG the same thing if I had one of the original Tundra's too. And neither company would of gotten another cent of my hard earned money again. These companies shouldn't be using their customers as an R&D department.

I hear ya. I'll do my own little rant related to this too.

This is why I can't find myself to recommend a Tundra to anyone.....even though they have seemed to fix the issues. It's not so much the cracking issues, but the whole ash pan/CO thing very early on. This was a potentially deadly f-up which was discovered by the consumer, luckily before anyone was killed.....and they CONTINUED TO SELL THEM. SBI used the buying public as a QA/QC program. Not acceptable! I understand SBI makes both the Tundra line as well as the Caddy line. However, Caddy's are well built furnaces which were not rushed to market to fill a market void and are sold at hearth dealerships by people who are trained and educated in the industry. Tundra's are cheap "knockoffs" sold at big box stores alongside feminine products by kids in high school and appear to have been rushed to market simply to fill a market void. SBI should be ashamed of themselves for using the buying public as an R&D department, just like sloeffle said.

 

[sloeffle]

How is refunding your money "screwing you over"?

My point is, these companies shouldn't be putting an inferior product out in the market place for consumers to buy to begin with. SBI and HYC arent new to the wood furnace game. With all of the CAD CAM and computer simulated testing methodologies that companies have available to them it shouldn't happen. This isn't Space X, they are building a steel box and blowing air over it.

They gave their customers refunds to save face. I do commend them for doing that.

 

[Case1030]

Actually I couldn’t load the firebox anymore as the darn smoke shield wouldn’t close. That thing has to go, nothing bust a pain in the ass.

Last night at 11:30 loaded for the night
View attachment 238129

Reloading now at 6:14 am (zero heat, distribution lower no longer cycling!)
View attachment 238130

So, yes there are still hot embers but what is the point when the stove is no longer heating the house. Really really really tired of reloading every 5 f’n hours

Nothing I can do to adjust secondary, only can add or cut back on primary air.

Also, last night I had discovered I had a broken bolt on the back of the stove that was allowing extra air to be pulled into the back of the stove. Now I understand bolts can break, but WTF.

HY-C has spent time this week trying to diagnose, but I am going through wood at 2x the rate as I expect. I am just really at the end of my rope.

Broken bolt
View attachment 238131

High temp sealant to fix for now
View attachment 238132

Here is the little over 12 hour burn for you @Mrpelletburner

What I'm left with after uncovering and taking forward coals.

Reload with 16-18 inch long, high as they can fit. Still room at back of stove. I save the longer logs for cold nights to utilize the while firebox.

 

[JRHAWK9]

You don't know me too well then. You can have my money the first time. The second time, no way. IMHO there are plenty of other good products out there that I can choose from that will hopefully not screw me over.

yep, it's not about "getting a refund" when you discover your brand new appliance is releasing CO into your home because of a faulty design. It's deeper than that, it's the fact that a company rushes a furnace to market in the first place, without proper QC/QA, which has a faulty/potentially deadly design.

Very similar situation with Hy-C and these Fire Chiefs.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Reload with 16-18 inch long, high as they can fit. Still room at back of stove. I save the longer logs for cold nights to utilize the while firebox.

No smoke shield?

 

[Case1030]

yep, it's not about "getting a refund" when you discover your brand new appliance is releasing CO into your home because of a faulty design. It's deeper than that, it's the fact that a company rushes a furnace to market in the first place, without proper QC/QA, which has a faulty/potentially deadly design.

Very similar situation with Hy-C and these Fire Chiefs.

Could have also caused a fire. No excuse for SBI. They should have welded an air tight ash box right from the beginning. Not an ash cavern shared with the blower that can whip embers up a dusty hvac.

Only reason I bough one is because it was cheap, they fixed the safety problems related to ash box, no more cracking, and there really are no affordable options that offer the same value (gasification furnace wise anyway). Down the line I'll look at a kumma...

 

[Case1030]

No smoke shield?

Nope I dont have issues with smoke spillage... you shouldn't ether at .1 draft lol.

On warm days I just make sure to get the first two splits in quick after that I can take my time because the logs take up air space and act like a smoke shield.

My chimney is only 16ft through room with no baro to btw.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Could have also caused a fire. No excuse for SBI. They should have welded an air tight ash box right from the beginning. Not an ash cavern shared with the blower that can whip embers up a dusty hvac.

Only reason I bough one is because it was cheap, they fixed the safety problems related to ash box, no more cracking, and there really are no affordable options that offer the same value (gasification furnace wise anyway). Down the line I'll look at a kumma...

Like I said, it appears they fixed the issues, it's just the whole CO thing and how they reacted to it really put a bad taste into my mouth about them as a company, that's all.

Sounds like yours is really working out great for you though. That's awesome.

 

[Case1030]

Like I said, it appears they fixed the issues, it's just the whole CO thing and how they reacted to it really put a bad taste into my mouth about them as a company, that's all.

Sounds like yours is really working out great for you though. That's awesome.

Yes I'm very pleased so far. No reason to work the unit very hard ether.

Having a properly sized furnace for the house is a big part of being happy with the results, I'd hate having to play catchup all the time lol.

Hoping the snail mail has the ICM326 in the mail this upcoming week. Been anticipating this project for the last month.

 

[Medic21]

Wow! Thought you had become a believer after the draft blower update.

I continued to have problems on days that were 30-40 degrees. I could only load enough for a couple hours or make the house 80 degrees and load when it got cold. If I tried to load full and set a thermostat if would puff every time.

I added a power source through a relay with a reostat and slowed the motor way down to give it enough air to burn off the gasses. Then when there is a call for heat it bypasses the reostat and runs full speed. It’s working decent now, not one puff since but, it’s 20 outside with 25 mph winds today and I have to load 3-4 times a day. I’m just done after this season. I’ll put it out in the shop and modify the piece of chit to burn with a natural draft. It’s basically $150 of scrap steel welded together that costs $1500. I’ll get my money out of it after I take a torch and welder to it and make it work like a non epa furnace.

Oh, and the last response I got from H-YC was trying to point out something else wrong with the install. I’m done even communicating because they still will not offficially admit a design issue and get rid of these things.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Yes I'm very pleased so far. No reason to work the unit very hard ether.

Having a properly sized furnace for the house is a big part of being happy with the results, I'd hate having to play catchup all the time lol.

Hoping the snail mail has the ICM326 in the mail this upcoming week. Been anticipating this project for the last month.

As you should be. Sounds like your Tundra is heating your place better than our Kuuma is heating our place in below zero weather. However, I'm guessing I have quite a bit more heat load than you do too. In the past I have had to work the Kuuma pretty good when it got below zero for extended periods of time to keep the house 72-73. The issue was, like you mentioned, having to play catch up when the house temp dropped in between loadings. Too much heat loss in below zero temps to maintain house temp when fire was dying out. We'll see how it does this year once it gets really cold (if it does at all.....LOL). All of my little tweaks of my blower speed, OAK I added, etc seem to be really accumulating and coming together nicely this year, as the house has been much easier to heat this year than in years past. The downside is it seems like I can't maintain a fire unless outside temps are consistently below 20° or so (it's been 26°-28° and cloudy here for the last 15+ hours and I'm letting the small morning fire die out once again, as it's 76° in here). It's showing up in wood usage as well. Wood usage up to and including December for this heating season vs last year:

This season:
HDD's: 3,005
LBS wood burned: 6,097

Last Season:
HDD's: 2,912
LBS wood burned: 6,672

The speed controller should definitely make your system even better.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

We have been 5 to 22 degrees the last couple days... if I let the stove take off, I can keep the house at 74-76, however I would compound the price I pay in wood.

 

[Case1030]

As you should be. Sounds like your Tundra, in below zero weather, is heating your place better than our Kuuma is heating our place. However, I'm guessing I have quite a bit more heat load than you do too. In the past I have had to work the Kuuma pretty good when it got below zero for extended periods of time to keep the house 72-73. The issue was, like you mentioned, having to play catch up when the house temp dropped in between loadings. Too much heat loss in below zero temps to maintain house temp when fire was dying out. We'll see how it does this year once it gets really cold (if it does at all.....LOL). All of my little tweaks of my blower speed, OAK I added, etc seem to be really accumulating and coming together nicely this year, as the house has been much easier to heat this year than in years past. The downside is it seems like I can't maintain a fire unless outside temps are consistently below 20° or so (it's been 26°-28° and cloudy here for the last 15+ hours and I'm letting the small morning fire die out once again, as it's 76° in here). It's showing up in wood usage as well. Wood usage up to and including December for this heating season vs last year:

This season:
HDD's: 3,005
LBS wood burned: 6,097

Last Season:
HDD's: 2,912
LBS wood burned: 6,672

The speed controller should definitely make your system even better.

Oh wow your really ontop of things. Lol You got a scale beside your furnace? I think that's kinda neat comparing pounds burn, gives a good overall look at how things are working.

Also regarding our outside temps up here this year have been absolutely nuts. It shouldn't be this warm, but I'm not complaining. Daytime high today is 22f. Had a couple 30f days to earlier this week. Way above seasonal... we should be sitting at daytime high of (-13f to give you a rough idea how it was last winter at this time.

When it gets cold to maintain my burn times, I just change from my subpar elm, and mix in 3 year old Oak splits works perfectly.

 

[JRHAWK9]

We have been 5 to 22 degrees the last couple days... if I let the stove take off, I can keep the house at 74-76, however I would compound the price I pay in wood.

wow, you have to buy wood on top of it? damn. I suppose your LP prices, being on the east coast, are crazy high. If you had our LP prices you may be better off burning LP than burning wood in that furnace.

Oh wow your really ontop of things. Lol You got a scale beside your furnace? I think that's kinda neat comparing pounds burn, gives a good overall look at how things are working.

if you only knew.....right @brenndatomu and @STIHLY DAN

yeah, that's how I figure my loadings. I have a Home Depot storage bin sitting on a platform scale right in between my wood rack and furnace. I throw the pieces from the wood rack into the bin until I see the weight I want to load for for the time period and outside temp and then slide it off the scale next to the door of the Kuuma. I've been shooting for about 2 - 2.5 lbs/HDD per day. Obviously heat loss is not linear, so that 2 - 2.5lbs/HDD per day is just a guide. When warmer it's closer to 2lbs/HDD (maybe even under) and when colder it's closer to 2.5lbs/HDD. When really cold I'm probably going to be closer to 2.5 - 3lbs/HDD.

I have a spreadsheet I use to keep records of wood/LP usage. I have a minute timer on my LP furnace.

See, OCD tenancies can be a benefit if you can harness them and put them to work FOR you.

Also regarding our outside temps up here this year have been absolutely nuts. It shouldn't be this warm, but I'm not complaining. Daytime high today is 22f. Had a couple 30f days to earlier this week. Way above seasonal... we should be sitting at daytime high of (-13f to give you a rough idea how it was last winter at this time.

How far north are you in Manitoba?

 

[Case1030]

wow, you have to buy wood on top of it? damn. I suppose your LP prices, being on the east coast, are crazy high. If you had our LP prices you may be better off burning LP than burning wood in that furnace.




if you only knew.....right @brenndatomu and @STIHLY DAN

yeah, that's how I figure my loadings. I have a Home Depot storage bin sitting on a platform scale right in between my wood rack and furnace. I throw the pieces from the wood rack into the bin until I see the weight I want to load for for the time period and outside temp and then slide it off the scale next to the door of the Kuuma. I've been shooting for about 2 - 2.5 lbs/HDD per day. Obviously heat loss is not linear, so that 2 - 2.5lbs/HDD per day is just a guide. When warmer it's closer to 2lbs/HDD (maybe even under) and when colder it's closer to 2.5lbs/HDD. When really cold I'm probably going to be closer to 2.5 - 3lbs/HDD.

I have a spreadsheet I use to keep records of wood/LP usage. I have a minute timer on my LP furnace.

See, OCD tenancies can be a benefit if you can harness them and put them to work FOR you.



How far north are you in Manitoba?

Southern section of Manitoba, about 20 mins north of Winnipeg. How about yourself?

Looks like we are getting some nice weather starting Thursday.

That's in fahrenheit ^

 

[brenndatomu]

Not to stir crap up here...but I wanted to comment on the whole Tundra CO thing from earlier...I saw the comments earlier, but we were leaving so I didn't have time to reply.
IMO that whole thing with the Tundra ash pan issue was COMPLETELY blown out of proportion...did anybody actually have an issue with one putting any real amount of CO in the house? I know there was a person or two that said their CO alarm went off...but I'm talking like actually had a CO problem that affected someone in the house? I never heard of anybody.
And I really really really really doubt it ever would or could...for several reasons...
1. The ash pan setup on the original T1 design was no different than many many current model wood stoves...just a plug that you pop out and a metal pan underneath that holds the ashes until you take them out...no more, no less. There are TONS of stoves that have this SAME setup...but nobody is screaming bloody murder on those! The only difference is that the Tundra has a larger blower and is hooked up to ductwork...meh, 6 of one, half dozen of the other to me...either way its in the house.
2. While it is true that you could have some small still burning coals in the ashes...I will not buy the argument that they could make enough CO to hurt anybody...I mean have you seen the ash hole in these things?! You'd really have to work hard to get any amount of coals forced through that hole...and then it will be small pieces if you do...nothing that will last very long...plus they will be covered in ashes...more likely to be smothered out than anything, IMO. Not enough CO producing potential to even talk about, let alone be recall worthy. I think Drolet just made the updated ashpan cubbys to stifle the hub-bub about it, not because they actually thought that there was a real problem that needed fixed...and I gotta agree. I never put the updated ash pan kit in...of course I never bothered with that stupid setup anyways...easier/simpler/faster to just dig the ashes directly out of the firebox.
About the only real issue I could see with the original ash drawer setup was the small chance you could have a little fine ash dust get blown into the house...not a lot, just a little. The pan was in its own compartment, but it was not completely "sealed" per say...the update consisted of a "sealed" sleeve that went into the original compartment, and then a new slightly smaller pan too (IIRC)
The later T1's they just welded the compartment seams.

If I were going to point any fingers at SBI on the T1's, it would be them trying to blame the crack issues on customers "overfiring" the furnaces...bull crap! My sisters T1 has had the temp controller (and my DIY front firebox heat shield kit) on it since the beginning and it is starting to crack anyways...fortunately hers still has the lifetime full firebox warranty, not the later "welds" warranty.

I do give credit to HY-C for working with people to try to get things sorted out...but by their responses and ideas for things to try... it is plain to me that they couldn't buy a clue if they won the lottery...and therefore these things will never work right. Honestly just looking at them, its not a great design...not like the Kuuma...that's 2/3's of their "secret sauce" a great firebox design...then the computer control is the other 1/3.
And since I brought up the Kuuma...these things aren't perfect either...nothing that I will mention in open forum...but I found a safety issue on the VF100 that Lamppa just blew off when I brought it up...kinda rubbed my fur the wrong way. They said that they have never had that particular part fail in that way, so its not a problem...my point was that it COULD fail in that way and then there could be a real problem for some unfortunate person. I haven't invested the time to figure out how exactly to resolve the issue, but I think it would be simple to remedy...so I'm not sure why the reluctance to deal with the issue...I know what they told me the reason was, but I ain't buying it.

 

[Case1030]

Not to stir crap up here...but I wanted to comment on the whole Tundra CO thing from earlier...I saw the comments earlier, but we were leaving so I didn't have time to reply.
IMO that whole thing with the Tundra ash pan issue was COMPLETELY blown out of proportion...did anybody actually have an issue with one putting any real amount of CO in the house? I know there was a person or two that said their CO alarm went off...but I'm talking like actually had a CO problem that affected someone in the house? I never heard of anybody.
And I really really really really doubt it ever would or could...for several reasons...
1. The ash pan setup on the original T1 design was no different than many many current model wood stoves...just a plug that you pop out and a metal pan underneath that holds the ashes until you take them out...no more, no less. There are TONS of stoves that have this SAME setup...but nobody is screaming bloody murder on those! The only difference is that the Tundra has a larger blower and is hooked up to ductwork...meh, 6 of one, half dozen of the other to me...either way its in the house.
2. While it is true that you could have some small still burning coals in the ashes...I will not buy the argument that they could make enough CO to hurt anybody...I mean have you seen the ash hole in these things?! You'd really have to work hard to get any amount of coals forced through that hole...and then it will be small pieces if you do...nothing that will last very long...plus they will be covered in ashes...more likely to be smothered out than anything, IMO. Not enough CO producing potential to even talk about, let alone be recall worthy. I think Drolet just made the updated ashpan cubbys to stifle the hub-bub about it, not because they actually thought that there was a real problem that needed fixed...and I gotta agree. I never put the updated ash pan kit in...of course I never bothered with that stupid setup anyways...easier/simpler/faster to just dig the ashes directly out of the firebox.
About the only real issue I could see with the original ash drawer setup was the small chance you could have a little fine ash dust get blown into the house...not a lot, just a little. The pan was in its own compartment, but it was not completely "sealed" per say...the update consisted of a "sealed" sleeve that went into the original compartment, and then a new slightly smaller pan too (IIRC)
The later T1's they just welded the compartment seams.

If I were going to point any fingers at SBI on the T1's, it would be them trying to blame the crack issues on customers "overfiring" the furnaces...bull crap! My sisters T1 has had the temp controller (and my DIY front firebox heat shield kit) on it since the beginning and it is starting to crack anyways...fortunately hers still has the lifetime full firebox warranty, not the later "welds" warranty.

I do give credit to HY-C for working with people to try to get things sorted out...but by their responses and ideas for things to try... it is plain to me that they couldn't buy a clue if they won the lottery...and therefore these things will never work right. Honestly just looking at them, its not a great design...not like the Kuuma...that's 2/3's of their "secret sauce" a great firebox design...then the computer control is the other 1/3.
And since I brought up the Kuuma...these things aren't perfect either...nothing that I will mention in open forum...but I found a safety issue on the VF100 that Lamppa just blew off when I brought it up...kinda rubbed my fur the wrong way. They said that they have never had that particular part fail in that way, so its not a problem...my point was that it COULD fail in that way and then there could be a real problem for some unfortunate person. I haven't invested the time to figure out how exactly to resolve the issue, but I think it would be simple to remedy...so I'm not sure why the reluctance to deal with the issue...I know what they told me the reason was, but I ain't buying it.

Your probably right, I have no clue how large the space was in the ash pan. I dont think it would be very likely for a spark or ember to make it past (I like to think anything is possible for safety sake). The idea of ash making it's way into the ducts would be the main reason to seal it. Also air blowing on coals makes alot a heat that would burn the ash pan paint making a foul smell at the most.

I'm just happy they have it sealed now, and think every woodburning appliance should be sealed for piece of mind.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Southern section of Manitoba, about 20 mins north of Winnipeg.

Manitoba... wasn’t that a big location for Ice Road Truckers?

Bet you have some good snowmobiling up that way. We haven’t had a good snowmobiling season in years, just no snow.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Ok today I removed the smoke shield as I wanted to test really loading the stove.

Loaded at 12:50 and it took about an hour or so, but the house reached 75 degrees with an outside temp of 18.

At 6 pm the stove started to cycle and the house temp started to drop. So I decided to open her up, snap a photo and reload.

Flue temps reached 1,000 degrees and the draft measured 0.2” WC.

I am no expert, but it still feels as if the fuel doesn’t really last.

 

[Case1030]

Manitoba... wasn’t that a big location for Ice Road Truckers?

Bet you have some good snowmobiling up that way. We haven’t had a good snowmobiling season in years, just no snow.

Not to sure about ice road truckers haven't actually sat down to give that show a good watch.

Speaking of snowmobiling just took out of storage today. Still not enough snow to play hard though.

 

[Case1030]

Ok today I removed the smoke shield as I wanted to test really loading the stove.

Loaded at 12:50 and it took about an hour or so, but the house reached 75 degrees with an outside temp of 18.

View attachment 238184

At 6 pm the stove started to cycle and the house temp started to drop. So I decided to open her up, snap a photo and reload.

View attachment 238185

Flue temps reached 1,000 degrees and the draft measured 0.2” WC.

I am no expert, but it still feels as if the fuel doesn’t really last.

On larger loads you should be able to turn your primary air down. PITA for you to play with but worth a try.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

On larger loads you should be able to turn your primary air down. PITA for you to play with.

Yup... good old blue painters tape. This allowed the fire to take off, didn’t want to touch it once it got going as I wanted to get a baseline. Will close off ½ of the opening in a couple hours.

Maybe in the end I could install some controller to control the opening?