Fireplace Insert Installation Question

[eric859]

I just had a company come out to install a fireplace insert. Overall, they were not being very careful when they were working and, as a result, scratched up the insert and insert cover so bad that I had to call the salesman while they were here to complain. They are coming this week to replace the whole insert unit except for the chimney liner. After they left I started looking at the chimney liner installation and noticed several potential issues:

1. There is no appliance connector between the flexible stainless steel liner and the fp insert. The forced the liner over top of a piece of stove pipe screwed into the fp insert. I've attached a picture. They also left a length of duck tape on it as seen in the picture. Not sure if it was to cover a hole or if it was already on the liner and they just didn't remove it. Is this going to really last? Is this something that would not pass inspection?

2. They didn't wrap the liner with insulation. I've made some calls. Some local installation companies say that it is not necessary and some say it is mandatory. I understand that it helps with draft and creosote buildup, but is it really necessary enough to really warrant the extra cost? I also read that it may help with making sure that the house doesn't catch fire from an overheated liner, but isn't that what the actual chimney is for?

Thanks for any help!
Eric

 

[tickbitty]

Was the install part of the stove purchase?
That's not a very professional looking installation at all. I would think they could have connected the flex right to the stove better than that setup. Maybe the liner wasn't long enough?!

 

[eric859]

I don't know if they purchased the appliance connector or not. I paid them for the insert and the insert installation. They initially connected the liner to the insert, then realized that they had to redo it because the insert needed to be moved back into the firebox more in order to have the insert border/cover flush with the front of the fireplace. Obviously this was the first time they installed this particular insert. I'm not terribly concerned that it's not pretty. I just want to feel comfortable that it's up to code and it will last long term.

 

[oconnor]

I just had a company come out to install a fireplace insert. Overall, they were not being very careful when they were working and, as a result, scratched up the insert and insert cover so bad that I had to call the salesman while they were here to complain. They are coming this week to replace the whole insert unit except for the chimney liner. After they left I started looking at the chimney liner installation and noticed several potential issues:

1. There is no appliance connector between the flexible stainless steel liner and the fp insert. The forced the liner over top of a piece of stove pipe screwed into the fp insert. I've attached a picture. They also left a length of duck tape on it as seen in the picture. Not sure if it was to cover a hole or if it was already on the liner and they just didn't remove it. Is this going to really last? Is this something that would not pass inspection?

2. They didn't wrap the liner with insulation. I've made some calls. Some local installation companies say that it is not necessary and some say it is mandatory. I understand that it helps with draft and creosote buildup, but is it really necessary enough to really warrant the extra cost? I also read that it may help with making sure that the house doesn't catch fire from an overheated liner, but isn't that what the actual chimney is for?

Thanks for any help!
Eric

There may not be a need for a specific appliance connector, but an appliance connector is the easiest way to do it right. There is a need for the liner to go into the next portion of the flue, not over. When it goes over, liquid creosote will run out of the flue. Using that swivel style smoke pipe is a truly bad idea on their part. Fine to use when you can see it, but in behind the surround, no way.

As for insulation around the liner, the need depends on the chimney construction and liner specs. Insulating will give better draft. Insulating also gives better protection to nearby combustibles during a chimney fire. Liners can reach temps of 2100*F during a chimney fire. The actual chimney can transfer lots of heat to timbers that may be adjacent to the brick surface. Over time, these timbers can turn to charcoal without actually catching fire. The liner insulation keeps the liner from passing heat to the adjacent brick, keeping the brick temps at a safe level for the rest of the building around it. Code requires that the chimney be built to ensure temps don't reach levels that are a hazard. One way is to build the chimney so that there is a constant air gap around the chimney to reduce transfer. Another is by installing a liner that is insulated AS PER THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME WITH THE LINER.

Caps Lock was intentional - you can't insulate every liner, and not all liners when insulated will reduce your clearance to combustibles to zero/zero. Read the and follow the instructions.

 

[eric859]

Thank you fore your reply! I agree that the swivel smoke pipe should be replaced. The problem I have now is that the liner is extended as far as it can go, so anything I replace it with needs to be about 1 ft long. Looks like I'm going to Home Depot.

I got in touch with my township's building inspector to determine if he requires liner insulation. He said that it depended on the results of a chimney inspection. The liner is already installed. I'm not sure what I should do at this point besides removing the liner, getting an inspection, then reinstalling the liner. That's not going to be cheap. If I don't do anything and a fire breaks out, would my insurance company deny me?

Thanks

 

[tickbitty]

I would not accept that installation, if you have not done so already. You paid for a professional install, and that doesn't look like one, you should not have to fix it yourself. If your dealer has had to replace the whole stove due to their installers messing it up, it should not be a great surprise to them that the installation is a bit shoddy. Tell them you accept the liner but not the install and you expect connectors on there not jackleg pipe and duct tape etc!
A lot of people have liners without insulation, and unless your chimney was in rough shape, you are probably OK with it. If you are concerned some sweeps/chimney inspectors do camera views down the chimney so I guess they could try that if there's room around the liner. Or, you could pour in vermiculite around it, looks like you have a block off plate.

 

[eric859]

Thank you for your replies! You have been extremely helpful.

1. I contacted the salesman to swap out the appliance connector. I haven't heard back, but I expect it won't be a problem.

2. I'm going to call around for a camera inspection. I hope that they can do it with the liner in place.

3. They didn't install a block off plate. I had read about them and really want to install something like that to stop any smell or downdraft from any cool air in the chimney itself. They said that a block-off plate is an option that is not included with their install. I understand that it is not a required thing, so I can accept that. I think I could create a block off plate in 2 pieces and install it myself once the insert install is done.

4. They then went on to say that they were going to use a spray foam on the initial several feet of the liner starting at the insert end to add a level of protection in my chimney since mentioned that I was concerned about that. I never heard of a spray foam insulation that is capable of withstanding the level of heat generated by an insert. They said it was called Chimtec or something like that. I can't find it online. Has anyone heard of something like that? Is it safe to use in this manner? Thanks again!

-Eric