Fireplace question

[zackmitchell]

Hello all...thanks for the useful information. I've referenced this site many time regarding the purchase of a coal stove.

Anyway, I have a problem of a different nature as it relates to my fireplace. I just bought my house in the spring and it has a metal firebox with the masonry chimney and ash dump, etc. It's not a prefab. Anyway I started using the fireplace and am noticing an uncomfortable level of heat on the walls directly above the mantle (roughly its warm/hot to the touch to about 3 inches up) and the same thing on the sides where the wall meets the stone front. I pulled away a rubber/silicone piece of caulking that was deteriorating on the one side where the wall meets the stone and there is heat blaring out of it. Not flaming, but the wall was warm/hot to the touch. An uncomfortable level, because I'm afraid of a house fire. Also there is about a one inch gap between the stone front and the masonry chimney.

My questions are....

1. Is it normal to feel heat on the walls surrounding the stone facade?

2. Is that gap normal....i'm assuming it is because the the two vents in the stone on the front.

3. What should I use instead of that caulking to fill the gap. I'm assuming some type of fiberglass insulation that is fireplace approved.

Your help is greatly appreciated in advance...

Thanks....

 

[elmoleaf]

Any chance of taking some pictures?
It sounds like heat is going in between the decorative stone front and the actual firebox and into the wall cavity around the fireplace?? But then you mentioned "two vents" so I'm not sure I understand the setup you have.

 

[zackmitchell]

Thanks for your response....

Here are some pics...

This is the gap between the wall and field stone. Upon digging I found there was mortar behind the caulk as you will see in the next pic. Looks like previous owner just patched up. Looks like I have to replace all the way around.

More of the caulk....

The vents I was talking about...there are two on each side. one at the top and one at the bottom on each side.

The next four pictures are the space between the firebox and the stone facade on the inside of the fireplace. Does this look normal or does that need to be patched to?

Hopefully these pics will put an image to what I am talking about.

Thanks again...

Zack

 

[zackmitchell]

.....and these guys will thank you too!

 

[SlyFerret]

I just forwarded the photo of your dogs to my wife. She'll love it!

-SF

 

[elmoleaf]

In your last pic before the dogs, it seems there's a gap along the mortar between the steel lintel and the metal smoke chamber area? Not sure what the pic before that one is, with the yellow insulation?
Second pic: is that an electrical wire emerging from the big pile of caulk?

The vents: not sure what that's about...passive convection chambers next to the metal firebox?? Anyone out there have experience with this??

 

[Hogwildz]

Looks like an old Heatilator
I have the same thing. There should be 4 vents 2 upper & 2 lower. There is a pocket of space between the metal firebox and the stone around it. The air naturally comes in the lower vents cold and exits the upper vents warm. It is normal for the stone to get warm/hot. as the hot air is circulating in the chamber around the sides of the firebox. You prolly already know that thing is sucking up heat in a far larger amount out the chimney than is being radiated into the room.

Hard to tell by the photos. But, if you look inside the top front where the stone meets the metal lentel, if there is a gap there, you might want to forgo using the fireplace.
There has been posts in the last couple months about heat going up that gap and catching any combustibles higher up in the gap on fire. May not be the case in yours, but something to check for first.

 

[webbie]

It's really hard to diagnose from afar - is that wood next to it charred? Or just dark stained?

You have what we call a Heatform......a steel box, surrounded by masonry and using a masonry chimney.
Is that right?
Look at this....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Heatform/

Let's assume that is what you have....

I have seen these constructed improperly, and (not to worry you too much) have heard of house fires related to that. There needs to be a certain amount of masonry- in inches, surrounding the metal box.
Assuming all masonry is correct, then you can deal with the problems of sealing using stove gasket and similar materials - which come in sizes from 1/8" up to 2".

I think if there is a REALLY experienced fireplace person with a good reputation, it might pay to have a complete site inspection. Another neat thing would be to get a hold of a manual for ANY heatform (if anyone makes them any more!).......just so it can be compared to something!

A pic from far away to see how the whole thing looks might be nice....

My first impression is that this thing is dangerous to a degree......

 

[struggle]

I have a masonry type of fireplace that but my set up is much different than yours. My firebox is much like a super large stove in a complete unit with a exhaust pipe that goes up into the chimney so far in the clay tile lined chimney.

The area completley around the firebox is a very big airspace cavity. There are no gaps in any place between the air cavity of the masonry part of the chimney to the firebox itself. So no fire smoke or air can come from the cavity around the firebox as it is all steel lined firebox.

Yours does not look that way to me in terms of construction.

All of our chimney is and front facing and vent areas area completely brick/marbled and there is no wood contact areas to the mass until the chimeny goes along the outside wall of the house.

The marble sections/blocks above the firebox gets so hot (after several hours of burning) That one would be hard pressed to hold their hand on them, but all the areas further out and around the box are cooler the further away from the firebox out and are room temp on the well before they reach the edge of the wall as the masonry cavity does not extend right up to the combustible wall. It is set up to not allow any heat transfer to any wall. The heat is then circulated by the lower fan and blows the heat out at the top.
I would not use your unit until you find out absolutely that is is safe which it does not sound that way to me and from your pictures which are kind close to tell what the system looks like.

Here is a picture our set up which I did not build second owner of this house.