Fireview firepower!

[Woody Stover]

I put in the Keystone in the Spring of '11 so didn't get to test it in cold conditions until recently, when we had nighttime lows in the teens on a couple of occasions in successive weeks. Keystone did OK but had to work pretty hard trying to keep up in this cabin with uninsulated walls. If I let the room temp drop too much, it was hard to recover, and heating the bedroom was out while trying to recover in the main room. My SIL has a Fireview so I've had a chance to run her stove and get familiar with it. Long story short, I decided to take advantage of the sale that Woodstock is running, and I picked up a Fireview in metallic blue. According to Woodstock's estimates, our square footage is at the low end of the Fireview's range and in the middle of the Keystone's. From what I've seen, I think their estimates are pretty good. The Fireview slid right in as the flue heights are the same on the two stoves. Luckily my nephews, three strapping young lads, were in town for the holidays. :cheese: The stove got here in about three days, and we were able to get it on the hearth without too much trouble. During the next round of temps in the teens at night with a fair breeze, the Fireview tossed enough heat to handle requirements easily. I think that going from a 1.5 cu.ft fire box to a 2.2 makes a noticeable difference in output; The entire stove seems to radiate more from its larger surface area, and runs a bit hotter on the sides and top. Heat keeps coming for a long time. Weather has been mostly mild here, and the larger fire box is also good for loading up on medium-heat woods that I have such as Cherry, and still getting some long burns. Too bad I had to give up the Keystone's big window and the ash pan. It's harder to get a good view of what's going on in the Fireview's box, and harder to see the combustor. I wonder if it would be possible to alter the front panel and put in bigger glass... I'd like to get or make an ash pan that fits inside the Fireview door, to totally eliminate dust escaping when shoveling the ashes out. Some folks don't care for the styling of the Fireview but I like the old-timey look and think it's a good fit in this rustic setting.
Here's a pic...it really did happen! :cheese:

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/001-5.jpg

 

[woodgeek]

Nice install.

Stupid question...I have been looking at the fireview, but I worry about using the side door in a fireplace installation. Is the stove tucked into the fireplace somehow, or does it stick out a lot?

 

[HollowHill]

That is one nice looking setup! It doesn't get any better than that. The Fireview looks like it was made for that setting, or vice versa. Congrats and enjoy!

PS. My cats are also mighty interested in what is going on in the firebox. About time I got them their own TV!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Woody, you no doubt have seen my posts debunking the myth about ash dust. There is no reason to have it in the first place and no special tools or water or any other junk is required other than an ash shovel and a bucket.

However, to make sure of no dust, this little ash holder is excellent and is a perfect fit for the Fireview as it is the perfect height to the firebox door.


Ash Holder

 

[Woody Stover]

I have been looking at the fireview, but I worry about using the side door in a fireplace installation. Is the stove tucked into the fireplace somehow, or does it stick out a lot?

The fireplace is 37" wide at the front, 24" deep, and tapers in to 22" wide across the back. I had the Dutchwest back in the fireplace far enough to top-vent it. I had to push the stove over toward one side of the opening to have enough room to open the side door. That stove had a front door also, but big wood had to go in sideways.
The Fireview is primarily a radiant stove so I think it's better to have it out in the room where it can do its thing. The sides of this stove radiate huge amounts of energy. Right now, it's sitting so that the back of the stove is flush with the front of the opening. The problem with this is that I can't open the top lid and have it lean back far enough to stay up by itself. I'll have to prop it open with a piece of wood, or better yet put a Tapcon or something on the front of the fireplace that I could hook the lid to. I'd hate to crack a top stone because I knocked out the wood stick holding the lid up. :shut: To pull the stove forward far enough to let the lid lean back as it was designed to do, I'd have to add on to the front of the hearth as I'm right at the mandated 8" front clearance.

My cats are also mighty interested in what is going on in the firebox. About time I got them their own TV!

Mine seems to like the fact that the stove sits lower and the radiation off the front stone is down at her level.

Woody, you no doubt have seen my posts debunking the myth about ash dust. There is no reason to have it in the first place and no special tools or water or any other junk is required other than an ash shovel and a bucket.

However, to make sure of no dust, this little ash holder is excellent and is a perfect fit for the Fireview as it is the perfect height to the firebox door.


Ash Holder

Thanks for the heads-up, Dennis. I've been shoveling out ashes as I did for years with the old Englander. I've got a coal bucket and shovel. The problem there is that the nose of the bucket slants away from the door so it's harder to tilt and slide the shovel out from under the ash load smoothly. The ash holder you linked to is better in that respect, but I checked the dimensions and it's too wide for what I'm wanting to do. I want to be able to slip the ash pan fully into the fire box so that I don't have to be concerned if I make a little dust. I will probably get some kind of baking pan, or fashion something out of sheet metal. I'll always prefer an ash drawer if given a choice. I always knocked the ash down into the pan before a reload, then didn't take the ashes out for a few days. Never more than a tiny ember in the ash that I took outside. It sure beats dodging and pushing around hot coals when trying to shovel out the stove. I'm certainly willing to put up with the inconvenience in exchange for the positive features of this stove, though.

 

[Todd]

Looks nice, when are you going to upgrade to the PH? :lol: I think the Fireview does put out a little more heat but not much. I think the Keystone radiants a stonger heat off the front because of the big glass and more iron, but like you said the Fireview has more heating mass and throws more from the sides.

When I measured the real usable fire boxes of each I found 1.4 and 1.8 and in order to take advantage of the Fireviews larger box you need to keep the layer of ash down. If you have 2" of ash and coals in the bottom of the Fireview your loading the same amount of wood as the Keystone. There are some plans in the works to make some new options for the Fireview including an ash pan. One of the main reasons I switched out my Fireview was the great ash pan system on the Keystone.

 

[Woody Stover]

Todd, I think the Fireview will do the job...shouldn't need a PH unless the climate takes a serious turn for the worse. :lol: A tube stove is on my list of stuff to play with eventually, though... :smirk:
I remember you saying in other posts that you weren't seeing a lot of difference in output between the Fireview and Keystone, but I think that in my situation, the difference is enough to tip the scales in my favor. I fall in the middle of the Keystone's 700-1300 sq.ft. rating, and toward the bottom of the Fireview's 900-1600 sq.ft. I should have given my lack of insulation more weight in my original purchase of the Keystone. I could probably still make the Keystone work by burning higher-output (and drier) wood, but it seems that I end up getting quite a bit of the medium output stuff along the way. Hard to pass on it if it's real easy to get. I think the emissions ratings on these stoves reflects real-world operation, too. Definitely noticing a difference in my ability to run flame in the box very cleanly. Your "real usable" fire box measurements don't sound like all that much difference, but I'm definitely finding it easier to get more wood in the Fireview. Agreed, gonna miss the awesome ash pan setup. That thing holds a ton. I'd really love to see a big-window option for the Fv...probably gonna miss that most of all.
I wonder how much of a bath I'm going to take selling the virtually new Keystone (about 3 easy months of burning)...anybody got an idea what I can expect to get?

 

[Todd]

Yeah there are times I miss that extra .4 cu ft. The Keystone can be a pain at times trying to fill up full especially with odd ball sized splits.

I sold my Fireview last year for $1100. Maybe try a few hundred under Woodstocks sale price, I think that would be fair.

 

[SmokingAndPoking]

If only you were closed to PA, I'd take that Keystone off your hands in a heart beat. I have just the spot in mind for one.

 

[Todd]

If only you were closed to PA, I'd take that Keystone off your hands in a heart beat. I have just the spot in mind for one.

Maybe you can meet half way?

 

[Woody Stover]

If only you were closed to PA, I'd take that Keystone off your hands in a heart beat. I have just the spot in mind for one.

Maybe you can meet half way?

It would still be a haul at ~350 mi. for each of us...but not impossible. Can't find any Keystones for sale on CL, ebay etc. :lol: I'm thinking there may be some local interest if I post it here on hearth...

 

[jdinspector]

Hey woodystover, I bought an ashdragon a couple of years ago (maybe it was last year!) Anyways, it works flawlessly. I just looked at their website and saw a Sifter for coals. Might have to try that one out! The ashdragon works very well. It clamps down over the coals and prevents dust from escaping. I walk right through my family room with coals and ash and don't spill a "drop". Well made and worth it to me. http://www.ashdragon.com/. I had some doubters when I bought it, but it is exactly what I wanted and fits the fireview perfectly. Well made.

Good luck.

 

[Jambx]

Nice install.

Stupid question...I have been looking at the fireview, but I worry about using the side door in a fireplace installation. Is the stove tucked into the fireplace somehow, or does it stick out a lot?

Here is my install - the side load door opens perfectly and just misses the side of the hearth so I can open it fully. You really want that huge soapstone slab that in fastened to the rear of the stove in the room and not tucked into the hearth. On another note you could also use the rear heat shield to help deflect heat into the room and not rearward.

 

[Woody Stover]

I bought an ashdragon a couple of years ago (maybe it was last year!) Anyways, it works flawlessly. I just looked at their website and saw a Sifter for coals. Might have to try that one out!

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I had in mind. I want everything inside the stove. If you've got sunlight on your stove at certain times you can see how much dust is flying around, not matter how careful you try to be. I'd rather not have to work at being careful. :smirk: That sifter looks useful. I don't like tossing out coals. I've been pushing them aside, building a top-down load with smaller stuff in the front, then dumping the coals on top of the small stuff and stacking bigger stuff in the back... The sifter would make that easier.

It's probably just my imagination but it seems like cooler room temps don't feel as cool as they did before. 64 normally feels chilly but since I switched stoves, it doesn't seem too bad at all. I can't imagine how this would work except for the walls absorbing the higher radiation and releasing it but it doesn't seem likely it would be very much difference. Bah, probably just imagining it...but I'll keep an eye on it.
Got a couple of days ahead with lows in the teens and highs below freezing...let's see how we do. :cheese:

 

[Todd]

Those Fireview's sure look slick out in front of those fireplaces. Definitely install the rear heat shield, it will help.

 

[fire_man]

Jambx:

Do you have the required 8" of clearance in the front? Looks like its less that 1.5 bricks wide of clearance. It's measured from the front most protruding part of the cast iron trim at the base of the stove.
My FV used to really heat up my wood floor in front of the hearth, and I had 10" clearance.

 

[Jambx]

Jambx:

Do you have the required 8" of clearance in the front? Looks like its less that 1.5 bricks wide of clearance. It's measured from the front most protruding part of the cast iron trim at the base of the stove.
My FV used to really heat up my wood floor in front of the hearth, and I had 10" clearance.

not to bore you but this was a thread I did during my install. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/80269/

Yes - I am right at 8 inches (its deceptive - and yes the floor gets toasty) however I have measured it with a temp gun and I am not at all concern - I did place a hearth haif moon rug in front of the fireview and it definitly absorbes some of the heat - so short answer I am at the minimume - I would have went another 2 inches but could not due to the floor joist was right at the 8 inch mark - would have meant a large re-structure project and I felt it wasnt needed.

BTW - at the time I took these pics I didnt have a hearth shield above the stove - now that area above the stove was a issue - I fabricated a sheild and it worked wonders on reducing heat to the surround..

 

[HollowHill]

Jambx:

Do you have the required 8" of clearance in the front? Looks like its less that 1.5 bricks wide of clearance. It's measured from the front most protruding part of the cast iron trim at the base of the stove.
My FV used to really heat up my wood floor in front of the hearth, and I had 10" clearance.

not to bore you but this was a thread I did during my install. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/80269/

Yes - I am right at 8 inches (its deceptive - and yes the floor gets toasty) however I have measured it with a temp gun and I am not at all concern - I did place a hearth haif moon rug in front of the fireview and it definitly absorbes some of the heat - so short answer I am at the minimume - I would have went another 2 inches but could not due to the floor joist was right at the 8 inch mark - would have meant a large re-structure project and I felt it wasnt needed.

BTW - at the time I took these pics I didnt have a hearth shield above the stove - now that area above the stove was a issue - I fabricated a sheild and it worked wonders on reducing heat to the surround..

I am currently wrestling with the hearth/mantel shield issue myself. Would you mind posting a pic of yours and the dimensions you used? Sizing seems to be nebulous with no definitive guidelines. Thanks!

 

[fire_man]

Jambx:

I looked at your earlier thread, that was one cool looking project you had! You were really lucky the floor joist was not closer to the stove, you just squeaked by to make clearance.
My hardwood floors directly in front of the FV always got really hot and shrank noticeably, the joints between boards widened. Oddly, the hearth and wood floor in front of my Progress is
much cooler.

 

[Woody Stover]

You really want that huge soapstone slab that in fastened to the rear of the stove in the room and not tucked into the hearth. On another note you could also use the rear heat shield to help deflect heat into the room and not rearward.

Those Fireview's sure look slick out in front of those fireplaces. Definitely install the rear heat shield, it will help.

Jambx, I just saw your post; Great-looking install!

Installing the heat shield hadn't occurred to me, but I know that back panel gets really warm! Would the heat shield convert radiant energy to heat and convect it off the back of the stove, or would the shield slow down the rate of energy coming off the back and force more energy out the sides and top...or both?

BTW, it's low 20s and windy outside and I'm still burning some coals from a partial load I put in about 9 hrs. ago. I'm liking this so far!

Jambx, I trust you were able to get longer burn times dialed in?

 

[Jambx]

I also wreasled with this for sometime until I found a super easy way to attatch it - use magnets! What was going to be a temporary sheild (as I was going to get one made out of Copper) worked and looked so great I left it in place.

Basically I used what I had left of the 22 ga sheet metal I used for the floor - cut it to size (I had use two pieces to make my dimensions), bent it (using a 2x4), a couple of holes and screws later plus two large magnets to hold it agaisnt the lintle and voila!

The pictures does not really do it justice as it blends rght in at almost every angle.

My hearth opening was 42 inches - I made the sheild 36 inches wide - 8 inches of a bend - when I measure stright out its 6 inhes from the hearth surround.

Cost me nothing as I had the large magnets. One day I might make it out of copper but for now this works!

 

[Jambx]

You really want that huge soapstone slab that in fastened to the rear of the stove in the room and not tucked into the hearth. On another note you could also use the rear heat shield to help deflect heat into the room and not rearward.

Those Fireview's sure look slick out in front of those fireplaces. Definitely install the rear heat shield, it will help.

Jambx, I just saw your post; Great-looking install!

Installing the heat shield hadn't occurred to me, but I know that back panel gets really warm! Would the heat shield convert radiant energy to heat and convect it off the back of the stove, or would the shield slow down the rate of energy coming off the back and force more energy out the sides and top...or both?

BTW, it's low 20s and windy outside and I'm still burning some coals from a partial load I put in about 9 hrs. ago. I'm liking this so far!

Jambx, I trust you were able to get longer burn times dialed in?

Thanks for all the kind words. It was one of my more rewarding projects and I have had quite a few!

I have to admit I have yet to do the rear shield - I asked Woodstock and they didnt have a home run of a answer - thought as long as I have brick int he hearth it was act as a big sink and soak the room as well. The more and more i think about it however is you are correct in your assumption that the shield direct the heat forward instead or rearward. I have not priced the shield yet but it cant be too much - I am going to try it when I get a chance.

As for the burn times .... I am begining to understand that eveyones definition is different so I am not sure what to say - I load it up - drop the hammer (so to speak) at 500F and shut the by pass - decrease to 1 or just a hair less and let her rip - with a full load....well.....I dunno...seems like she is pushing some flames for a few hours ...maybe 4 no more than 5 - the stove (stone) cruses 500F ~ 250F for 2 or 3 hours (soaking the room of that wonderful warmth).

I do think wood is a main contributor - I have 7 cords out back which I split this past year (yes I know its not seasoned) - I am using 1 year old Oak - my mosture meter reading (when I re-split a split) is ~15%. Even though its only a year old I think it is this low because my inital splits back in March were ridiculasly small (~3 inches a side).

Am I dissapointed - not at all - just the opposite - I go to bed at 11pm on a full load - in the morning the themometer on the wall is 70F (high 20's outside) - - stove top temp is ~200F and all I have to do is throw wood on the hot bed of coals. Is it me or is that kind'a neat!

 

[ddddddden]

I have the rear shield on my FV. Hot air does come up out of that space, but some of that must be coming off of the flue, which would also happen without the shield. Also depends on how you run the stove. If you choke it down for a mostly-cat burn, with no flames in the box, most of the heat comes off of the top of the stove vs. the sides/back of the stove. The shield cost ~ $70 a few years ago. . .very reasonable $, like all Woodstock parts, but I think the best bang for your $ would be to block off the mouth of your fireplace, especially since you appear to be handy with the sheet metal.

 

[fire_man]

As for the burn times .... I am begining to understand that eveyones definition is different so I am not sure what to say - I load it up - drop the hammer (so to speak) at 500F and shut the by pass - decrease to 1 or just a hair less and let her rip - with a full load....well.....I dunno...seems like she is pushing some flames for a few hours ...maybe 4 no more than 5 - the stove (stone) cruses 500F ~ 250F for 2 or 3 hours (soaking the room of that wonderful warmth).

Jambx:

Do you mean you are closing the bypass at 500F stovetop temp? It should be closed at 250 F stovetop, which according to WS is 500F firebox temp.

That's a neat shield you made. I like the copper idea, and the magnets! It's hard to find heavy gauge copper any more, and that stuff is expensive!!

 

[Jambx]

Do you mean you are closing the bypass at 500F stovetop temp? It should be closed at 250 F stovetop, which according to WS is 500F firebox temp.

That's a neat shield you made. I like the copper idea, and the magnets! It's hard to find heavy gauge copper any more, and that stuff is expensive!![/quote]

I should have known I would get flagged on that with this crowd - I do in fact close it @ 500 internal (250 external).

The magnet idea is a great one - it is a very easy install especially since I drilled my lintel for my block off plate and it wasnt pretty (very hard casting) - I also didnt want something so obtrusive and srewed into the mantel. The magnets are the bomb - in the summer all I have to do it pull it off for a more clean look.

I did find a guy that would bend a piece of copper 22 gauge in my dimensions for $75 - dont ask me why I didnt take him up on it since I think that was a steal.