Fisher Papa Bear needs help.

[Richard De Lawter]

I have heated my shop with wood for the last 4 years starting out with a add on stove with an elbow on the top to direct the heat. Last year I purchased a ( Peacock ) wood stove that does a much better job but I want to have a Fisher.
I have just purchased a Papa Bear that was stored for years and someone took the door. I paid $70 for the Fisher thinking I could locate a door but am having trouble finding one.
Has anyone fabricated a door that worked well?
What doors from other Fisher stoves could be adapted to my stove? I have a mill & other machining equipment in my shop. I live in Northern IN.
Any help or direction would sure be welcomed.

 

[coaly]

Mama and Papa use the same door, doubt you'll find one unless a scrap yard will sell you a door only. They usually want to sell the whole stove. If you do find a door, since they came from different foundries from different patterns, each stove had the hinge plates welded into position with the door being installed. So changing a door requires the hinge plates to be removed and rewelded in the correct position for the new door.
Stove is laid on it's back with door centered on steel door sealing channel iron. Pin the hinge plates to door with hinge pins or 3/8 bolts, and tack weld plates to stove. Test door operation and finish welding to stove.

You can make a door from steel plate like all the first stoves before they were cast.
Here's a picture on the original patent;
(broken link removed to http://www.google.com/patents?id=edknAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22combination+heating+and+cooking+stove%22&source=bl&ots=vnIeOfDAH5&sig=A3U-f5dKVAMfNkzdtN0IHMQih9w&hl=en&ei=bkx9S7H0BYeVtgeG6tmwBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22combination%20heating%20and%20cooking%20stove%22&f=false)

Not sure if anything was welded to the inside of door to prevent warping.
Bob's dad, Baxter suggested he have doors forged with cast iron since making the doors were taking so long with a lot of cussing. Baxter also invented the draft cap (air damper) that was later used on all the stove models.

The original air dampers were black iron pipe caps with a bolt welded in the center. Cut half moon shaped holes in the doors leaving a bridge across the hole to drill and tap for the 1/2" bolt.




I guess thick gasket gasket glued in the channel iron original "door seal" could be used to seal the flat plate to stove front. Lay the stove on it's back, lay door in position and mark where the hinge tabs will be welded on door above each hinge plate on stove. They were 3/8 solid rivets that can be made easily from 3/8 bolts with no threads at the head end, grinding the heads round to be used for pins.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

Mama and Papa use the same door, doubt you'll find one unless a scrap yard will sell you a door only. They usually want to sell the whole stove. If you do find a door, since they came from different foundries from different patterns, each stove had the hinge plates welded into position with the door being installed. So changing a door requires the hinge plates to be removed and rewelded in the correct position for the new door.
Stove is laid on it's back with door centered on steel door sealing channel iron. Pin the hinge plates to door with hinge pins or 3/8 bolts, and tack weld plates to stove. Test door operation and finish welding to stove.

You can make a door from steel plate like all the first stoves before they were cast.
Here's a picture on the original patent;
(broken link removed to http://www.google.com/patents?id=edknAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22combination+heating+and+cooking+stove%22&source=bl&ots=vnIeOfDAH5&sig=A3U-f5dKVAMfNkzdtN0IHMQih9w&hl=en&ei=bkx9S7H0BYeVtgeG6tmwBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22combination%20heating%20and%20cooking%20stove%22&f=false)

Not sure if anything was welded to the inside of door to prevent warping.
Bob's dad, Baxter suggested he have doors forged with cast iron since making the doors were taking so long with a lot of cussing. Baxter also invented the draft cap (air damper) that was later used on all the stove models.

The original air dampers were black iron pipe caps with a bolt welded in the center. Cut half moon shaped holes in the doors leaving a bridge across the hole to drill and tap for the 1/2" bolt.


View attachment 119280 View attachment 119281

I guess thick gasket gasket glued in the channel iron original "door seal" could be used to seal the flat plate to stove front. Lay the stove on it's back, lay door in position and mark where the hinge tabs will be welded on door above each hinge plate on stove. They were 3/8 solid rivets that can be made easily from 3/8 bolts with no threads at the head end, grinding the heads round to be used for pins.

I was sure hoping you would post a reply. [ a big thank you ]
When I purchased this I new my chances would be slim on finding a door and I will make one if I have too.
I tried searching for some one that posted making a door and have tried looking on Craig's list.
What area in the states has the most sales of the Fisher Stove?
I wonder if those stats are available? Also thanks for the patent lead.

 

[CamFan]

I tell you what you could do. I have thought about this some. We sell new EPA stoves. Go to a local stove shop and find a stove door that would work best for the papa opening, right now I can not remember the size. Some of the stoves we sell the doors are separate since you can chose different doors. Just buy a door. I do not know anything that says you can not do this. You may have to remove the channel on the papa since most doors have gasket on the door. If you have a shop you probably can do this. The biggest problem is most new stoves have glass doors which requires an air wash. I have added them to fishers but it would be hard to describe the process and it is easier on a double door stove. The easiest method would be the air wash used on a Gma III. It worked good, not great. Or you could just let the glass stay black. these are options. some may not want to use a fisher box and another door, I would rather have a cast door than make one that may work for a while.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

I tell you what you could do. I have thought about this some. We sell new EPA stoves. Go to a local stove shop and find a stove door that would work best for the papa opening, right now I can not remember the size. Some of the stoves we sell the doors are separate since you can chose different doors. Just buy a door. I do not know anything that says you can not do this. You may have to remove the channel on the papa since most doors have gasket on the door. If you have a shop you probably can do this. The biggest problem is most new stoves have glass doors which requires an air wash. I have added them to fishers but it would be hard to describe the process and it is easier on a double door stove. The easiest method would be the air wash used on a Gma III. It worked good, not great. Or you could just let the glass stay black. these are options. some may not want to use a fisher box and another door, I would rather have a cast door than make one that may work for a while.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

CamFan
Appreciate your thoughts and post.
If I can't locate a door I will keep the stove and maybe buy another one to copy the door measurements. Also think about using 5/16 -3/8 plate steel to make one.

 

[CamFan]

If you have a milling machine can you duplicate the raised piece that would fit in the channel? If so you would need thicker than 3/8. I have a square door on a stove and I know an arched door is I could get the measurements. I have drawings but I do not know if the doors are included. Coaly would know if the door is included. I do not have them here at the house where I cAn check.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

Yes, I have a Bridgeport mill along with a surface grinder and different tooling for machine shop work. It would be great to get any dimensions I can, as I have never seen a door for the Mama or Papa bear stove. I can use what ever thickness I need and will machine as needed.
I appreciate you taking the time to help me.

 

[coaly]

That's like asking where the most Fords or Chevys went. I enjoy these kind of questions because as I try to answer, I come up with more questions and sometimes answer a few I'm in search of myself. Digging through dealer information, I just came up with the original names of the two licensees from Salt Lake City. This is proving to be the only fabricator of the XL, so I'm getting closer to finding it's origin.

Don't know what area of the US had the most sales, but I do know they made over 1.5 million all together in 14 years. It's more like saturation areas around fabricators; Some had smaller areas and sold more based on population, but they all did their part.
After Bob saturated Eugene and Springfield with stoves, they were being installed farther and farther away, and then shipped by truck or rail. When he couldn't keep up and taught others to make them, he wanted to keep the licensees in small family type operations making about 10 stoves a day for $100 profit on each one. His own shop was putting out 15 a day and couldn't keep up. With no middlemen, salesmen, shippers or distributors, he wanted the man who did the labor to make the money. That was his way. Then the imitators came into the picture and the race was on. All the fabricators were using their own different advertising, laboratory testing and lawyers. Bob realized buying things in bulk like component parts and bricks would be cheaper and more consistent than all the fabricators buying locally. His idea was to have a convention of all dealers to bring it all together. That took two years to get together. So by keeping track of the doors the fabricators were using, he kept track of what was owed in royalties per stove. This was 6% or about $15 / stove. His receivables from fabricators was between 12,000 and 50,000 monthly. This only gives an idea of the number of stoves made, not their origin. I can tell you Cal Cotton was the highest seller in Iowa one of the first years, and when Hesston Manufacturing got the contract for making stove bodies, the Dunns (VA) made the first order for 5000 stove boxes mass produced by Hesston instead of making them themselves. That was when dealers nation wide were 60,000 stoves behind. The Dunns sold the most stoves that year (1977) and were awarded a trophy for the most stoves sold at the first convention for dealers. 2nd place for the most sold was the Hawks from N.C. These were the documented years when Bob and Carol were in charge.
In later years, the guys that could run big business figured the numbers. Fabricators had dealers and distributors moving stoves and dealers would buy stoves from other fabricators that made models not available from their closest builder. So stoves like the XL only made in Utah were sold nationwide by dealers that could order from them. There's no way of knowing what area has the most without an accounting from each fabricator of where they went. The President after Bob was a retired lumber broker, Henry Eaton that was interested in getting a national office going. It took him 6 months to pull things together and choose a business associate, John Lynn to take over the new national organization. Their sales and marketing numbers would give us a good idea where they went.

 

[coaly]

The inner raised portion fits in the center of the channel iron door seal and contacts the web of channel iron. So it needs to be the depth of inside of channel iron. The legs of channel iron sticking out contact the door inside of the inner raised lip and between the two raised sections. This gives you 3 points of contact. The outer raised edge on the outside of channel iron door seal does not contact stove face. It will be the same distance from stove as web thickness of channel iron.



Also notice inside of door has a stop for handle; You want the handle to stop at about 10 or 11 o'clock over center at the top. This prevents handle from spinning all the way around, and you only have to rotate it about a quarter turn to open and close. Very strange when they rotate freely all the way around.

Camfan may have some short door handles and balls left;



When installed through door, notice in top picture above, the washer welded to rod. Rod is then bent in an S shape (cherry red) to contact wedge welded inside door on latch side.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

You sure have a lot of valuable information on the stoves.
Is it possible to get a copy of the door print you are showing?
The facts you have on the manufacturing are much appreciated. Its been a lot of years since the stoves were made but people are always finding things ( stuck away ) waiting to be discovered and maybe a door will pop up for me. It would ( or will ) be a nice project making one. I would probably make the side rails and weld them to flat plate, then machine out any distortion. An original handle & draft knobs would be neat.
My stove has an H stamped into the bottom railing around the front bottom plate. Could this be a Hesston manufacturing stamp?

 

[coaly]

Yes, it's from Hesston in Kansas. It will be a crisp machine stamped H on the front edge of ash fender. (shelf)



The Hesston tag was normally under the ash fender with serial number on tag;



Each piece of the stove is part numbered and drawn on it's own page. So each stove is a set of drawings.
The door drawing is so large, I can't fit it in a picture without taking multiple shots like I did.
Too close gives flash glare, too far away can't be read. Picture I posted on left shows width and corner details, picture on right shows height measurements.
Those photos were taken for corner details. I can get better pics showing overall measurements. I'll post them here.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

I think it is neat to have a Hesston made stove. The tag under the ash fender is gone but the Prominent H is crisp and clear. Darn, I am getting excited about "Fisher wood stoves"
A fellow was in my shop today ( working on a Stihl 192 chain saw for him ) and I was showing him my stove.
He told me about a factory in North Manchester, IN (30 miles away) that has built wood stoves for years and that he himself has lots of old stoves in a building. He is going to see what he might have as he has a large variety of stove parts.
His brother in law works at the stove factory and they might be a source of a new steel door. I have never heard of the factory and my brother went to college at North Manchester in the 60s.

 

[coaly]

Did you read "The Fisher Stove Story" here? https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/bob-fisher/
(click attachment tab to read in 3 parts) The trips to Kansas were documented well and that is where Bob had a stroke signing the contract. More info that isn't in the book, but mentioned in interviews is signing the actual contract. Hesston required 750,000 dollars in case they were cancelled to pay for retooling. They made all sorts of farming equipment and were retooling from garbage compactors to stoves. He didn't have that kind of money, and as they were passing the contract around to be signed, it came to him last, and his ball point pen wasn't clicked out, so his signature never made it on the contract. He was so nervous signing it, he folded it and threw it on the table saying "you've got a deal". No one noticed his signature was not on it.
Here's an article about Hesston I posted on the first page of the Everything Fisher thread.
(broken link removed)

 

[Richard De Lawter]

Just kind of waiting around to see if a door comes up some where, ( I know that is slim )
You would think some one would have one setting around but I am not sure how to advertise for one.

Any one setting on some original air damper caps??

 

[coaly]

Most scrap yards set stoves aside for sale. Extremely rusty ones sometimes have good doors they will sell separate. Watch for Mama or Papa. They hide the draft caps when they see me coming.

You can buy draft caps made from the original patterns which they have here; Specify WITH steel threaded insert. They may still have some cast with brass.
http://www.barrcasting.com/draft.html

Not all draft caps are created equal;
Some New Old Stock originals from my collection;
Aluminum with Metallic Brown at bottom,
4 Solid brass in black and brown at top.

Polished aluminum edges right.
Brushed aluminum edges left


Pattern marking #1 (thru 4) at bottom.

Early Iron 4 fin did not have the rim around outside so the fins stick out. (courtesy Finest Fishers)

New brass plated (thin fin- lightweight)
I finished one front and center.

They are perfect for candle holders.

Parts display inside XL

Around Christmas I use them for candle holders inside the stoves and it actually heats the stove tops!

 

[Richard De Lawter]

coaly, sure is nice information you have (and) interesting.
Thank you

 

[coaly]

Maybe I should be CapFan.

 

[Richard De Lawter]

Do any of you fellows know of scrap yards that hoard fisher stove doors?
Looking at fisher stove ads again because of lack of time (or energy) to make a door in this cold weather. Wife had a fit because I can't have just one of something I like.
She is a wonderful person and seems to know me well.