Follow-up to "My argument with the wood guy"

[dave11]

Hi everyone. About a month ago, I posted here about being shorted one-third of a cord by a local wood supplier, and his refusal to make it good. Since so many people here took an interest, I wanted to let you know what has happened.

Nothing.

I contacted Pennsylvania Weights and Measures, filed an online complaint, and left a phone message. Never heard back. There apparently is no main number for it, only the phone numbers of the officers, though I'm not sure I'm actually getting through to anyone actually associated with the place.

Have a friend here who's a cop, who says they have no authority to deal with this sort of cheating.

I passed a sign for "firewood for sale" in front of another local landscaper, in which the wood was also stacked improperly (criss-crossed), and called to inquire. He said their wood sells for $395 per cord, and what was stacked on the roadside was a "cord." In fact, it would likely only make two-thirds of a real cord, meaning the suckers of this county are really paying $600 per cord of firewood. Pretty amazing, considering we have huge old hardwood trees all over the place.

But I guess there's no way to stop them. Not legally, anyway.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

That sucks Dave....was hoping that the end result would be better than what actually happened.
Another governement entity that doesn't do anything useful I guess?

 

[Badfish740]

Another governement entity that doesn't do anything useful I guess?

As an employee of a government entity that DOES do a lot of useful things I feel compelled to respond. When it comes to bureaus of weights and measures and firewood, usually they try to educate the public through informational flyers, websites, etc...on how NOT to get scammed, because that's about all they can do. Everyone knows how tough it is to have a true "standard" for a cord of firewood. Unless you want more government intrusion (ie: requiring all firewood sellers be licensed, or requiring that all firewood being sold be packed into special crates issued by the government, etc...) firewood buying will simply have to remain caveat emptor. I've interacted with the New Jersey bureau of weights and measures on two occasions with good results. Once my father was sure he was cheated at a gas station, he complained and the bureau verified that their pumps had been illegally modified to pump slightly less than 1 gallon of gasoline while registering that a full gallon was pumped. Another time was when a local scrap yard had a scale that was clearly out of whack, but it was working in their favor so they neglected to fix it-until weights and measures stepped in. Of course, 1 gallon of liquid or 1 pound of material is a very easy standard to define with a high degree of precision. Firewood is not-which is why I scrounge

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Another governement entity that doesn't do anything useful I guess?

As an employee of a government entity that DOES do a lot of useful things I feel compelled to respond. When it comes to bureaus of weights and measures and firewood, usually they try to educate the public through informational flyers, websites, etc...on how NOT to get scammed, because that's about all they can do. Everyone knows how tough it is to have a true "standard" for a cord of firewood. Unless you want more government intrusion (ie: requiring all firewood sellers be licensed, or requiring that all firewood being sold be packed into special crates issued by the government, etc...) firewood buying will simply have to remain caveat emptor. I've interacted with the New Jersey bureau of weights and measures on two occasions with good results. Once my father was sure he was cheated at a gas station, he complained and the bureau verified that their pumps had been illegally modified to pump slightly less than 1 gallon of gasoline while registering that a full gallon was pumped. Another time was when a local scrap yard had a scale that was clearly out of whack, but it was working in their favor so they neglected to fix it-until weights and measures stepped in. Of course, 1 gallon of liquid or 1 pound of material is a very easy standard to define with a high degree of precision. Firewood is not-which is why I scrounge

Point taken - touche.

How would you suggest the poster to try to rectify the problem? Doesn't seem like he has any alternatives?

 

[Badfish740]

Point taken - touche.

How would you suggest the poster to try to rectify the problem? Doesn't seem like he has any alternatives?

No touche necessary-I wasn't tying to be nasty and I'm sorry if it came across that way-the internet can do that sometimes. I was just trying to make that point that we're not all self serving bureaucrats. If it were me I would see if the town or county the seller was located in had their own weights and measures department. Since they have a lot less territory to cover they might be able to follow up more quickly. Another thing to remember is that Pennsylvania is facing a major budget deficit so that may be another factor-they simply may not have the resources to follow all the leads they get from folks getting cheating on everything from gasoline to heating oil to produce.

 

[TreePapa]

Point taken - touche.

How would you suggest the poster to try to rectify the problem? Doesn't seem like he has any alternatives?

No touche necessary-I wasn't tying to be nasty and I'm sorry if it came across that way-the internet can do that sometimes. I was just trying to make that point that we're not all self serving bureaucrats. If it were me I would see if the town or county the seller was located in had their own weights and measures department. Since they have a lot less territory to cover they might be able to follow up more quickly. Another thing to remember is that Pennsylvania is facing a major budget deficit so that may be another factor-they simply may not have the resources to follow all the leads they get from folks getting cheating on everything from gasoline to heating oil to produce.

Especially since prolly more than 1/2 of said leads are folks who actually got what they paid for, but just like to complain.

Peace,
- Sequoia

 

[gzecc]

Dave, Don't loose hope. They are probably on their three week vacation. They'll get to it when they get back. Did you send a certified letter to the firewood supplier specifying your problem?
If they don't get back to you by October 1st, call the Dept of Consumer affairs- and take some names!

 

[Slow1]

Also consider a small claims suit - just might get the seller's attention. In any case, as others have suggested, document everything. Lots of pictures, notes of phone calls made and attempted etc. If you go to small claims court you just might get lucky and have a judge who is a wood burner who has had to buy wood in the past and understands the pains...

EDIT:
Oh - and I too had a bad experience with my first buy of wood last year, but it had a happy ending when the seller in fact showed up and made it right by delivering the shortage. I think my motto now is "I burn therefore I scrounge". I buy only what I see and measure myself in advance - if I measure a different volume than seller claims I don't argue about the volume, I simple adjust the cost accordingly and decide if it is worth it to me and proceed, negotiate price for what is presented, or simply walk away. I realize not everyone has time to do this, but it sure has helped me keep my sanity.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It still falls back to the, "let the buyer beware," I guess. There are crooks all over the place. It is amazing the price they are getting for a cord of wood out there.

 

[madrone]

I'm thinking bricks of some sort are better than the situation in your area. Some kind of wood mafia operation going on.
Sorry Dave. Don't give up, keep scrounging!

 

[donmattingly]

Dave,
Sorry you have had to go through this.

Question.
In reference to an earlier post on this thread, is if cord wood is stacked cris cross, is it measured differently than traditionally stacked wood? This is how I stack my firewood and have been measuring it the same all along. 4 by 4 by 8.

 

[LLigetfa]

It depend on how tightly it is stacked. You can cross pile with two splits in either direction and have a lot of air space. People often do that to improve air flow for faster drying. Most weights and measures statutes describe a cord as all splits stacked parallel.

 

[donmattingly]

Thanks Pyro. My stacks are pretty tight so no worries here!

 

[LLigetfa]

My stacks are pretty tight so no worries here!

Ja, nowhere near the 33% air that Dave was talking about. I'm guessing you could squeeze out maybe 7% by ranking them all parallel.

 

[dave11]

The Pennsylvania statute says a cord is 128 cubic feet of wood, stacked parallel and compacted. So all these woodsellers here are out of compliance with the law, by selling it stacked criss-cross. In reality, they're getting almost $600 per true cord, but the buyers don't seem to mind. Besides me.

 

[LLigetfa]

The Pennsylvania statute says a cord is 128 cubic feet of wood, stacked parallel and compacted...

I've read variations that include bark and air in the definition. I also read a post where a buyer raked up all the bark, dirt, chips, and chunks left behind after stacking and insisted the seller pick it up and exchange it for pure wood saying wood was what he paid for. It's not always cut-and-dried. Sometimes there is a lot of grey in the definition.