For Don2222 question about your stove or venting under a deck

[Levamealone]

I read your post on 2/26/11 and noticed you have a Avalon Astoria Pellet stove installed in your basement. I am considering doing the same with the same stove.
We have a 2 story colonial with a finished attic and a centered stairway.

My biggest concern is that the best place to vent the stove is under our deck.
The installer/retailer said the manufacture specs note ok if there is a 2’ clearance to the deck floor and 18†from the
ground (which is a crushed rock pad the same size as the deck-no combustables).
Any comments?
Anyone else have a vent under a deck?

Anyone know of a pellet exterior vent fire not caused by poor maintence?

My insurance agent said if the manufacture says ok, its ok.
Our local fire chief did not recommend it, but no codes violated if done to specs.

Thank you, in advance, for your time and assistance.
Leva

 

[save$]

Just a thought. Have you considered running a 90 then vertical up through the deck floor? It would be in the open and allow you access to it with the leaf blower for a really good clean out. Some vertical drafting is often a plus. I don't know how deep your deck is, but I would think that any wide cover like that would really slow down the stove ability to exhaust properly.

 

[Wachusett]

I have a friend with a similar install. There is limited air movement, which results in soot build up on the house and under the deck.
Wind patterns and air flow will be important to consider, but it can be done.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

There is a bit more to be concerned with than just those two clearance figures.

You have to pay attention to any doors or windows above the deck flooring as well.

Then in addition to what Wachusett has mentioned dealing with wind patterns and airflow there is also possibility of build up of snow around the deck area can cause trouble.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

This is from the Avalon Astoria manual, but applies to any pellet stove. All these conditions need to be met-

Pellet Vent Termination
• Vent must terminate on the exterior of the dwelling. Horizontal terminations must protrude a
minimum12" from the wall. Vertical terminations must protrude a minimum 24" from the roof
surface. In addition, all clearances listed below must be met.
• Must have an approved cap (to prevent water from entering) or a 45° downturn with rodent screen.
• If the termination is located on a windy side of the house, an approved house shield is
recommended to prevent soot from building up on the side of the house.
• Must not be located where it will become plugged by snow or other material.

NOTE: Measure clearances to the nearest edge of the exhaust hood.

A Minimum 4' clearance below or beside any door or window that opens
(This clearance may be reduced to18†if using outside air (see page 11) – we recommend
the door or window be kept closed during operation.
Minimum 1’ clearance below or beside any window that does not open.
B Minimum 1' clearance above any door or window that opens
C Minimum 2' clearance from any adjacent building
D Minimum 7' clearance above any grade when adjacent to public walkways
NOTE: Vent may not terminate in covered walkway or breezeway.
E Minimum 2' clearance above any grass, plants, or other combustible materials
F Minimum 3' clearance from any forced air intake of any other appliance
G Minimum 2' clearance below eaves or overhangs
H Minimum 1' clearance horizontally from combustible wall
X Must be a minimum of 2' above the roof

http://woodheatstoves.com/avalon-astoria-pellet-stove-manual-p-4224.html

 

[heat seeker]

The manual for my St Croix forbids venting into any "semi-enclosed" area, which to me includes under a deck. The exhaust can easily build up under there, and seep into the house - especially if there are windows under there. The suggestion save$ made appeals to me, using a vertical rise to get the convection flow and the exhaust out into the open. That would also prevent a soot buildup under the deck. If someone should decide to tarry on the deck in cooler weather while the stove was running, they would probably be subjected to the exhaust, since it would be warm and rise through the gaps in the decking.
You could extend the piping to the edge of the deck, but that would probably give you too long a horizontal run. Up through the deck would be my choice.

 

[Levamealone]

Thanks everyone! Great idea about going thru the deck. We could take the pipe vertical up thru the deck in the corner by the stair cut out rail. I think we will need to take the cap up
to a height above the sliding door? We have 3' between the slider door and the railing.
Does anyone suggest any protective fence around the pipe that is exposed on the deck?
Thanks, Leva

 

[Don2222]

Hello Leva

Nice to hear you have an Avalon Astoria. It is a nice stove and it provides alot of heat. I am sure you will Like it.

After doing alot of research I found Location is very important in providing the most heat and comfort for your home. Therefore I located my stove in the middle of my basement not only from side to side but also from front to back. That meant I had to connect the pellet stove to the existing center chimney and install a double wall stainless steel chimney right behind the original chimney to run my oil boiler.

Do you have pics of your stove install area and outside house and deck so we can make better comments and recommendations?

Sorry I did not see this post sooner, I was fixing my car end ck light!
This is a really good forum !!
Here is the check eng code P0171 problem I found if anyone is interested??
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73154/

 

[Levamealone]

Good Morning Don and All
I am so impressed by this forum and its members and their generous sharing of their knowledge, Thank you!

Know back to my problem?!
I have taken pictures of the area where we can install the pipe.
The clearance under the deck from the rocks to the floor of the deck is 5'.
The width of space between the sliding door and the deck rail is 3'.

Our thought is to take the pipe out of the basement under the deck and thru the deck floor in the
corner and up and have it terminate above the sliding door (no windows above the sliding door).

The only comment about this install from our local permit agent is that the pipe should be enclosed in a firesafe
box so that it can not be touched by anyone or any heat transfer to the deck? Anyone do this to their exit pipe?

The other area it could come out is between the two windows that are at ground level (daylight basement).
But this area has issues with a window above and our air conditioner and hvac pipes exit next to the air conditioner.
We would have to come out and go up and angle to the left around the window before terminating the pipe.

Any ideas are appreciated.

PS. Don, how did you do the raised deck that your stove is on? I am thinking this would be good for our stove.
Looks like it makes it easier to access the ash box, any other benefits?

 

[Don2222]

Hello Leva

Why not come out of the back of the house in the back corner? It would be much easier!

I built the raise hearth my self. Thank-you

The major benefit is that when walking near the stove your feet will hit the raised hearth long before you or your clothing touch the burning hot window and you either get burned or set your clothes on fire! So it is a major safety item!

However you are correct, I like to sit in my chair to clean the window and ash in the stove. Since the hearth is 9.5 inches high it works well with me sitting in my chair! The overhang I designed in the hearth has a 1/2 inch slot for the Red Rope Light which gives a nice warm glow. The Amber Rope light around the tiles in the back match the Candles on the Tiled Mantle I made and look nice at night with the fire!

See slide show of 3 month Hearth build on my Web Server!

http://TRHS.Sytes.net/trhproj.nsf/bdedfca988b2db3c85256207004f45a9/42e1a03a71224912852575f4000e74cb/$FILE/phasei-hearth.swf

Also a few pics below. P.s. That is a 220 Volt 900 Watt KickSpace Heater in the Hearth to keep feet warm when stove is down for cleaning!! LOL

 

[ironpony]

my stove terminates under my back deck
as long as you meet all the clearances you will be fine
have a little bit of black soot under there
but nothing more than I've seen on ones that directly vent out the side wall
mine exits thru the poured foundation wall so that is not combustible either
gravel base under exhaust

 

[checkthisout]

Venting under that deck would be fine, you're just going to smell that smoke anytime you step outside there. Throw a smoke bomb out there and look at which way the prevailing wind carries the smoke to see what it's going to do.

However I personally reccomend going up through the deck, up the side of the house and above the roofline. This raises cost considerably but makes for a much nicer install.

If you do go through the deck to whatever height, I think it would be a good idea to at least have a railing to protect the pipe. Encasing the pipe isn't necessary.

Also, you're not really "trapped" into doing it one way or another. If I was in your situation I would simply vent the stove out of the side under the deck and see how it does in regards to smoke and soot. If nuisances begin to develop, you can buy the rest of the pipe and extend the vent up to a more desireable height.

Happy Pellet Stoving and be sure to post pictures of your install!

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Remember:
If you are going vertical more then the recommended install of approx. 5 ft for 3" vent then keep track of the EVL and go to 4" if you are over 15!!

Here is a good definition of EVL !!

Also see here for more info http://nevelsstoves.com/pellet-stove-venting.html

Pellet stoves have to push the exhaust air through the vent pipe with the stove’s exhaust fan. With less restriction your pellet stove will breathe easier and burn more efficiently. First let’s clarify the word restriction. Restrictions come from several different items.

1. 45 degree elbows
2. 90 degree elbows
3. Horizontal distance
4. Vertical distance
5. Elevation where you live.

A rule of thumb equation we are using has been adopted by most pellet manufactures. The equation is called the sum of Equivalent Vertical Length (EVL). All of the above mentioned venting restrictions have been assigned EVL values as follows:

1. Each 45 degree elbow = 3 EVL
2. Each 90 degree elbow and Tees with cleanout = 5 EVL
3. Each foot of horizontal run = 1 EVL
4. Each foot of Vertical run = 0.5 EVL
5. Elevations above 3000 ft with an EVL of 7 must adapt to 4 inch vent pipe.

If your installation is below 3000ft, we would need to do some math. The rule of thumb equations is that if the sum of the EVL is 15 or greater, then the pellet vent pipe would be increased to 4 inch diameter pellet vent pipe.

 

[Don2222]

Hello Leva

One other suggestion I want to make. As I said before the best location for the stove is critical!

The best location is in the middle of the home not it a corner of the basement. Also locate near the stairwell if you want heat to rise up to the second floor.

 

[Levamealone]

Hi Don
I would love to install it in the middle of our basement, but it is not an option, no center chimney, no chimney! We have Propane Forced Air Unit with A/C.
Also middle basement would mean a long horizontal length and would probably be less efficient.

Our Elevation is under 3000 I will check and post later.

 

[save$]

You live in New Hampshire. Snow country. Wherever you place the exhaust, it must be able to maintain all those distance limitations even in the snow. So, if snow piles on the deck and the exhaust is under the deck, then it is in a covered area, and not installed correctly. Whatever your manual sets for limits is what you need to keep. Mine says the stove pipe must be 4 in. from the wall. So I would take it that if you cut through the deck, you will need to a have hole large enough to have 4 in. space between the pipe and the decking or use another thimble just like you use to exit the house. If I were you, I would consider one of those metal narrow trellises available at Lowes or Hd to put in front of the pipe to assure no one places their hands on it. (plus, it will disguise the pipe!) I think you have a lot of options. You should see more suggestions to come. By the way, very neat looking set up you have.

 

[Don2222]

Hi Don
I would love to install it in the middle of our basement, but it is not an option, no center chimney, no chimney! We have Propane Forced Air Unit with A/C.
Also middle basement would mean a long horizontal length and would probably be less efficient.

Our Elevation is under 3000 I will check and post later.

Ok, Leva

Here is something else to consider. Since you have FHA, if you can install the stove close to the Furnace Main Air Return, then you can connect the stove using ductwork into the Main Air Return. Then by only turning on the circulation fan, you can heat your whole house with your pellet stove.

See 2 pics in next to last post in this thread of pellet stove going into Main Air Return
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71518/

 

[Levamealone]

Wow, I looked at your link and the replys from everyone, you guys are heating Gods!

This is way too much for me for now. I will take it a step at a time.

Re: Save$ comments - we keep all snow off our deck and stairs (safety exit), snow does not seem to
block any side of the deck and we have never had any under the deck on the crushed rock, so we could get to any pipe during winter.

Im leaning towards Checkthisout's idea of trying the under deck and see what happens.

Don - if I do a platform should I leave it open on a side for heat flow or?

Thanks everyone! Leva

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Wow, I looked at your link and the replys from everyone, you guys are heating Gods!

This is way too much for me for now. I will take it a step at a time.

Re: Save$ comments - we keep all snow off our deck and stairs (safety exit), snow does not seem to
block any side of the deck and we have never had any under the deck on the crushed rock, so we could get to any pipe during winter.

Im leaning towards Checkthisout's idea of trying the under deck and see what happens.

Don - if I do a platform should I leave it open on a side for heat flow or?

Thanks everyone! Leva

Leva what is that pipe under the deck between the water faucet and the electrical service wire?

The reason I'm asking is that any venting must also stay away from certain other system's intakes and do not forget the door above the deck, you have to be at least 48" below that door with your vent unless you have an OAK installed.

 

[Don2222]

Wow, I looked at your link and the replys from everyone, you guys are heating Gods!

This is way too much for me for now. I will take it a step at a time.

Re: Save$ comments - we keep all snow off our deck and stairs (safety exit), snow does not seem to
block any side of the deck and we have never had any under the deck on the crushed rock, so we could get to any pipe during winter.

Im leaning towards Checkthisout's idea of trying the under deck and see what happens.

Don - if I do a platform should I leave it open on a side for heat flow or?

Thanks everyone! Leva

Hi Leva
You do not need to leave any side open. Mine are all closed except for the rectangular hole with the black grill in the front for my electric heater.

Although you could put a pull out draw in the front of the platform to keep your cleaning tools and window cleaner in? Just an idea. See http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1322&filter=drawer << Just order the size draw, slides and pull knob

Are you going to have candles and rope lighting?

 

[Levamealone]

Hi Smokey! (I had a stuffed one when I was a kid!)

Going from the right of the faucet is a PVC down pipe for our dehumidifier which is caped off for winter.
The dehumidifier is a stand alone unit that we wheel over to the wall and run the run off hose through the wall and
out the pipe when in use.
Once we install the stove our use of
the dehum. will prob. go way down.

The other clear plastic pipe is a water processing runoff outlet. We will have to keep it in mind when we place our exit pipe.
No electrical service wire under the deck.
Thanks, Leva
PS what is an OAK?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hi Smokey! (I had a stuffed one when I was a kid!)

Going from the right of the faucet is a PVC down pipe for our dehumidifier which is caped off for winter.
The dehumidifier is a stand alone unit that we wheel over to the wall and run the run off hose through the wall and
out the pipe when in use.
Once we install the stove our use of
the dehum. will prob. go way down.

The other clear plastic pipe is a water processing runoff outlet. We will have to keep it in mind when we place our exit pipe.
No electrical service wire under the deck.
Thanks, Leva
PS what is an OAK?

OAK = Outside Air Kit.

It is used to obtain combustion air from outside of the house.

ETA: Our dehumidifier is only used after burn season is over.

 

[Levamealone]

Don, Love the drawer idea! I am a neat freak so a place for everything and everything in its place is my motto.
The stove will back up to a split cement and drywall wall with a ledge already there, so at this point I will skip any decorative tile. The
whole basement is a soft light yellow paint with gray Allure floors. I will post pictures when we are done.

I am leaning towards a Harman P68 for the stove. The dealer has more references and quoted me a better deal on pipe (ICC) and install.

Anybody have any Harman P68 words of advice let me know.

The Harman manual has install instructions for under a deck. This is another plus in my mind, the Avalon manual did not
have anything in writing on deck install, the retailer had to call the Manufacture.

I wish it was all done, going to be cold tonight!

 

[Don2222]

Hello Leva

If you do not have the stove yet, I would seriously consider one that is made for ductwork to bring the heat upstairs. You can always add the ductwork connection later but atleast you would have the option available.

Example: One of these below:

http://www.ecoteck.us/ducted-heat/

Description of “Ducted Wood Pellet Stoves†from Ecoteck in above link.

The Ecoteck wood pellet stove range also includes 3 ducted units for people who want more even heat diffusion throughout the home. Ducts conveys heat from one room to another and distributes it throughout the home, spreading the stove’s warmth over as wide an area as possible.

Models equipped with the air canalization use 2 pipes, 3.15 Inches in diameter, to service other rooms. Depending on the model, the delivery of the air for canalization can be in the top or in the bottom part.

In the Elena Airplus, the second fan for the air canalization, can be activated simply by pushing the button on the display.

In the Laura & Veronica, there is the possibility to adjust the front and back air delivery by adjusting a lever.

More info on Ecoteck Laura 11kW Ducted Stove
Ducted Heating with wood pellets
Wood pellets are one of the few truly environmentally friendly ways to heat. Ducted stoves have a two extra warm air outputs at the rear of the unit and these can be connected to aluminum ducts routed other rooms in the property. A simple mechanical flap controls the ratio of air coming into the main room compared with the air being diverted to the back. All wood pellet stoves require a 13amp electrical connection.