General thoughts on wood/seasoning/people's wood IQ

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samhoff2

Member
Aug 12, 2011
61
Wyoming
I've been trolling this site for the last hour or so looking at wood data, primarily because in church this morning a guy commented to me, "Cottonwood and Pine are both terrible to burn, what you want is Ash or Hickory!" Well, it turns out cottonwood and pine are about all I have access to.

So, I found this link on one of these threads: http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html

And I read it. It has some really interesting info that sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about, but I wanted to make sure that he was right on a few points.

1. Two weeks ago I cut up a standing dead lodgepole pine as well as felling a lodgepole pine and cutting them to firewood-size lengths. Based on the article (above) these will not be seasoned for 9 months. Is this accurate? I was hoping since they'd been dead for a while I could burn them this year. Since I am a newbie, I'm afraid (not having anything to compare them to) that I will never know I'm having "bad" wood unless you all clue me in.
2. Also he noted in the article that a tarp over the wood "is not worth the expense unless you live in a very wet area." I have found other articles on this forum and other places that indicate a tarp is necessary..
3. He says the "standard" length to cut firewood is 16". I think I have been going about 24". I understand it doesn't matter a whole lot (my fireplace will take them up to 30" or so I think), but I was curious what length you all use. (Interestingly I must admit that I did a horrid job being consistent on this matter--I think I have some that are 15" and some that are 30"! I am hoping for improvement!).

In short, I think there is a lot of mis- or bad information out there, and thank anyone who can offer advice.

Sam
 
Hi Sam, welcome to the forums, here are my 2 cents on your questions.

1. Because you are in Wyoming which is known for low humidity and high winds you may be able to shortcut the 12 month minimum seasoning time most use on this site. I would be a little hesitant though since summer is now almost over which would have been prime drying time. If you see water sizzling out of the ends and a lot of "hissing" from the wood when you first put it on the fire you know it is definitely too wet. If there is heavy smoke that can also be a sign that the wood is too wet.
2. Most on this site cover their wood before the snow starts in their area. If you are in an area of Wyoming that gets heavy snow it would definitely be recommended, if you are not it may not matter at all. Some people here, myself included, only cover the wood they plan to burn in a given week.
3. I cut the length of my stove, front to back. So everything fits in nicely when I load.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
Sam - welcome! I just joined the forum a few days ago myself! But I've been burning wood for 11 years. Here are my opinions although I'm sure some may disagree.

1. I would try burning your wood and see if it sizzles or you can see water coming out. If it does that it's a bit too wet. I have never burned cottonwood but I have burned pine and as long as it's dry it will be fine. It burns fast so it's best when it's not quite so cold.

2. I never cover my main woodpile but I have a space under my deck that I stack a fair amount. I also bring a week's worth into the basement. This ensures I always have some dry. My experience with tarps is that they don't last long with the wind but I only tried once and am too cheap to buy another!

3. As long as it fits in my stove I don't care how long it is. For me that is about 20". I don't measure my cuts or anything I just eyeball it. Sometimes I do cut one too long so it goes in a pile to be cut later - no big deal.
Good luck burning and again, welcome!

Ed
 
samhoff2 said:
I've been trolling this site for the last hour or so looking at wood data, primarily because in church this morning a guy commented to me, "Cottonwood and Pine are both terrible to burn, what you want is Ash or Hickory!" Well, it turns out cottonwood and pine are about all I have access to.

So, I found this link on one of these threads: http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html

And I read it. It has some really interesting info that sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about, but I wanted to make sure that he was right on a few points.

1. Two weeks ago I cut up a standing dead lodgepole pine as well as felling a lodgepole pine and cutting them to firewood-size lengths. Based on the article (above) these will not be seasoned for 9 months. Is this accurate? I was hoping since they'd been dead for a while I could burn them this year. Since I am a newbie, I'm afraid (not having anything to compare them to) that I will never know I'm having "bad" wood unless you all clue me in.
2. Also he noted in the article that a tarp over the wood "is not worth the expense unless you live in a very wet area." I have found other articles on this forum and other places that indicate a tarp is necessary..
3. He says the "standard" length to cut firewood is 16". I think I have been going about 24". I understand it doesn't matter a whole lot (my fireplace will take them up to 30" or so I think), but I was curious what length you all use. (Interestingly I must admit that I did a horrid job being consistent on this matter--I think I have some that are 15" and some that are 30"! I am hoping for improvement!).

In short, I think there is a lot of mis- or bad information out there, and thank anyone who can offer advice.

Sam

Welcome to the forum Sam.

Well yes, hickory and ash are better wood than cottonwood and pine. However, many, especially in your state have only cottonwood to burn and they get along just fine. In many other areas, the pine is all they have....and they get along just fine.

What you get with the charts, and there are many, is a general guideline. Let's take ash vs cottonwood as a good example. Ash will give more heat than cottonwood but how? The difference is not in the output of the stove as it is burning, what the difference is amounts to the burning time. Ash and others will simply burn longer and leave you with a much better bed of coals. But again, cottonwood will heat your home as well as the pine. And the pine, being dead, just might be ready to burn. At least the top part of the tree very well may be ready but the bottom part might still have a good deal of moisture to contend with. If so, save that part for next year.

Covering the wood. That is entirely up to you if you cover or not. If you do decide to cover, tarps are about the worst thing to use. They won't last but a year and will usually get torn up, especially in those winds you have out there. To cover is best to used something solid. We use old galvanized roofing for covering and it works well. Yes, one of the well-known guys on this forum, quads, who lives in Wisconsin never covers his wood and he gets along just fine. Depending on where you live, most of your state is a dry climate and it would seem you could be okay without covering.

What is standard length? Well, what length does your stove take? That should be standard for you. Measure how long of a piece you can get in and then subtract about 4" which will leave you 2" on each end and the fire will do best with that.

Sadly you are correct that there is a wealth of bad information out there. You have come to a great place for learning though as we have a great bunch of guys and gals here that are ready and willing to help one another. With that, we again welcome you. Keep the questions coming.
 
Here is how we stack. 4 1/2' high which shrinks down to 4' or less. If the wood is needed sooner than ours is, then stack in single rows and stack the wood where it gets lots of wind. Some sun is also good but wind is your best friend for drying wood. Also, don't count drying time until the wood has been split.

Woodfrom2009.jpg
 
I never get tired of seeing that pic,Dennis. :)
 
I think the information you got is pretty good. In general 9 months to a year is good for pine, but maybe dead stuff will be good this winter. Dead wood is variable and can be pretty dry or very wet. As for the length to cut, short is OK, just make sure you don't cut too long.
 
Thanks everyone for the great info, and very quickly!
(1) I suppose every stove is different, but I also find these ideas about North/South vs. East/West interesting... I have bought an RSF delta 2, and it looks like it will basically accomodate EW loading only. I just now measured, and it's basically 24" wide and 13" deep... so wood would have to be less than 13" to load NS. Thoughts?
(2) I guess another question along these lines: on a really cold night can I just dump a whole large armload of wood on there and let 'er rip, so that I have coals in the AM?
(3) Lastly, would it be worth $20 to get a stove thermometer to put above the door? I looked at them online, but it seems like the burning is pretty straightforward with this stove. (The "bimetallic coil" that will constrict airflow so that you never overheat it).

Thanks again all; I really appreciate it!

Sam
 

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One of the reasons to cover wood for the winter is ice gets on the wood and if the wood is to go into the stove right away it can be problematic melting on your coal bed. Digging through the snow for an arm load of wood is another reason to cover the wood. Banging the wood together to knock off the snow and ice is a good way to smash a few fingers if that's what you want but if not then covering the wood can help lessen the frequency of pinched or smashed fingers.

Trying e/w vs n/s is good experimentation and will by nature help you decide what works best for you and your stove. If the stove takes 13" max then you will want to try using 12" to load quickly and safely as wood that pushes the envelope can be a source of "hang ups" and burned fingers or hands trying to force the wood to be cooperative. Another thing is you might get to the point where 24" pieces is a lot less work than a bunch of 12-13" pieces.

My experience tells me you will have an exceptional stove and curcumstances to get a load of poplar/cottonwood and pine to last the night through. Just the way it is. With a wood furnace and oak and hickory and elm to burn I still loaded halfway through the night in the dead of winter.
 
wood-fan-atic said:
I never get tired of seeing that pic,Dennis. :)

Thanks wood. That pile will be shrunk pretty well by the end of winter. There will still be some for next year though in that stack.


Sam, a couple stove thermometers is great as it gives you more information on what the stove is doing. Condar seems to have the most accurate. We got ours through Woodstock.
 
I think N/S loading can work really well, but like you mention the wood needs to be pretty short. if you are cutting 24 inch lengths, what do you do when you end up with the last piece of a log 25 inches long? Cut those in half and try N/S loading. In my stove, like many stoves, the air comes in the top front, flows down the glass to keep the glass clean, then hits the wood at the lower front part of the stove. This means with N/S loading the air can pass along the gaps between wood pieces and support flire throughout the wood load instead of the fire being more concentrated in the front split. I think the value of N/S loading will depend on the air supply in your stove. Its not as if E/W loading won't work, but N/S gives you some options. I often load some pieces E/W and some N/S in the same load.

For longest burn you'll want to carefuly fill the firebox with your best wood. You wrote "just dump in an armful." Maybe that is just an expression, but I suggest you have to place each piece carefully to really fill the firebox completely. Also, you don't just "let 'er rip" for a long burn. You'll want to add the wood and leave the air open until there is a healthy amount of flame, then reduce air to the minimum amount needed to burn hot, but not too fast. Long burns require practice. Aside from that, you have it right - load it up at night for a long burn and hope for coals in the morning. You'll find some woods produce more coals than others.

I'd buy the thermometer. Whether or not you have a air control bimettalic gizmo, you'll want to know that your stove isn't overheating, or that you aren't being too conservative and burning a lot cooler than your safe limit.
 
samhoff2 said:
I've been trolling this site for the last hour or so looking at wood data, primarily because in church this morning a guy commented to me, "Cottonwood and Pine are both terrible to burn, what you want is Ash or Hickory!" Well, it turns out cottonwood and pine are about all I have access to.

So, I found this link on one of these threads: http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html

And I read it. It has some really interesting info that sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about, but I wanted to make sure that he was right on a few points.

1. Two weeks ago I cut up a standing dead lodgepole pine as well as felling a lodgepole pine and cutting them to firewood-size lengths. Based on the article (above) these will not be seasoned for 9 months. Is this accurate? I was hoping since they'd been dead for a while I could burn them this year. Since I am a newbie, I'm afraid (not having anything to compare them to) that I will never know I'm having "bad" wood unless you all clue me in.
2. Also he noted in the article that a tarp over the wood "is not worth the expense unless you live in a very wet area." I have found other articles on this forum and other places that indicate a tarp is necessary..
3. He says the "standard" length to cut firewood is 16". I think I have been going about 24". I understand it doesn't matter a whole lot (my fireplace will take them up to 30" or so I think), but I was curious what length you all use. (Interestingly I must admit that I did a horrid job being consistent on this matter--I think I have some that are 15" and some that are 30"! I am hoping for improvement!).

In short, I think there is a lot of mis- or bad information out there, and thank anyone who can offer advice.

Sam

1) The standing dead pine will burn just fine. Any green pine will be a little smokey.

2) I wouldn't bother tarping in WY till winter, and that'd be just to keep the snow off

3) I cut 16" just for shear convenience. When I cut for my dad I cut 18" When I cut for my BIL I cut 24" - I recommend picking a length that works for you then measure and mark before cutting.

4) I agree with your church friend regarding cottonwood. It's about the only species I won't bother with.
 
Wood Duck said:
I think the information you got is pretty good. In general 9 months to a year is good for pine, but maybe dead stuff will be good this winter. Dead wood is variable and can be pretty dry or very wet. As for the length to cut, short is OK, just make sure you don't cut too long.

True. But dead wet gives up it's moisture much quicker than fresh-green.
 
samhoff2 said:
Thanks everyone for the great info, and very quickly!
(1) I suppose every stove is different, but I also find these ideas about North/South vs. East/West interesting... I have bought an RSF delta 2, and it looks like it will basically accomodate EW loading only. I just now measured, and it's basically 24" wide and 13" deep... so wood would have to be less than 13" to load NS. Thoughts?
(2) I guess another question along these lines: on a really cold night can I just dump a whole large armload of wood on there and let 'er rip, so that I have coals in the AM?
(3) Lastly, would it be worth $20 to get a stove thermometer to put above the door? I looked at them online, but it seems like the burning is pretty straightforward with this stove. (The "bimetallic coil" that will constrict airflow so that you never overheat it).

Thanks again all; I really appreciate it!

Sam

1) There is no way in h_ll I'd cut 13" for the sake of some crazy notion that logs burn better laying one way rather than the other. Ever. Not in this life time nor the next. I would rather set my face on fire and put it out with a weed-eater

2) Yes. That's what most of us do most of the winter. 1) Load up. 2) Let burn for 10+ minutes. 3) Shut down the vent 4) Go to bed

3) IMO, no. If you're cold, open her up a little. If you're hot shut her down and crack a window. You don't need a thermometer to tell you any of that.
 
N/S loading gets my cold starts going quicker, better ventilation.
But after that it seems full blown either way.
 
Lots of members burn almost all evergreens.
"Beetlekill" burns almost 100% log pole & is doing great with it.
"North of 60" also only has spruce, & is doing great.
Cotton wood is BTU's too.
Aspen is a decent wood if you have access to it in your area.
Dry seasoned wood is key, regardless of the type, it all is BTUs. All dry wood is good, but some is better than others.
"You burn what you got"
 
My green pine is well seasoned in 3-4 months of winter weather with pretty high humidity and regular rain, and not in direct sun most of the day.

Get that dead standing pine split and give it a month or two of air and it'll probably burn just fine.

Pine, ash, cottonwood, oak - whatever. It's all just a matter of BTUs, seasoning time, and burn time. A pound of seasoned pine has about the same amount of BTUs in it per pound of seasoned oak - its more a matter of wood density. You get far more weight in a cord of oak vs. a cord of pine.

I don't have alot of space to store 3-4 years of wood. It's unrealistic for me. So i like pine and ash alot personally because they'll consistently season to a high degree when split in march/april and given 6-7 months of good seasoning time.

That's my take.
 
Joe said it best: wood is wood. The main content of wood is cellulose. The difference (in terms of energy output) from one piece of wood to the other is density. A A given volume of a hardwood (oak) will weigh much more than the same volume of softwood (pine) for any given moisture content. However, should you compare WEIGHTS of wood (at the same moisture content), 1 lb of oak will give off roughly the same amount of heat as 1 lb of pine. With softwood you will simply need to add wood a bit more often to the stove.

That's my 2 cents!

Andrew
 
One reason for the favorable NS crowd may simply be the shorter logs.

I use a toploader. I can fit a couple long (18") in the bottom of an empty stove, then the pieces must be shorter and shorter if I am to fill the stove as much as possible.

Long story short, I cut a lot of wood at 10-12". Then I stack everything together.

Without doubt, the short stuff seasons faster. Much faster.
 
samhoff2 said:
I've been trolling this site for the last hour or so looking at wood data, primarily because in church this morning a guy commented to me, "Cottonwood and Pine are both terrible to burn, what you want is Ash or Hickory!" Well, it turns out cottonwood and pine are about all I have access to.

So, I found this link on one of these threads: http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html

And I read it. It has some really interesting info that sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about, but I wanted to make sure that he was right on a few points.

1. Two weeks ago I cut up a standing dead lodgepole pine as well as felling a lodgepole pine and cutting them to firewood-size lengths. Based on the article (above) these will not be seasoned for 9 months. Is this accurate? I was hoping since they'd been dead for a while I could burn them this year. Since I am a newbie, I'm afraid (not having anything to compare them to) that I will never know I'm having "bad" wood unless you all clue me in.
2. Also he noted in the article that a tarp over the wood "is not worth the expense unless you live in a very wet area." I have found other articles on this forum and other places that indicate a tarp is necessary..
3. He says the "standard" length to cut firewood is 16". I think I have been going about 24". I understand it doesn't matter a whole lot (my fireplace will take them up to 30" or so I think), but I was curious what length you all use. (Interestingly I must admit that I did a horrid job being consistent on this matter--I think I have some that are 15" and some that are 30"! I am hoping for improvement!).

In short, I think there is a lot of mis- or bad information out there, and thank anyone who can offer advice.

Sam
Hey Sam
My staple firewood is standing dead lodgepole pine. I prefer it to most other types of wood I have available because if it's been standing dead long enough it will be dry enough to burn right away. Likely if you are cutting dead lodgepole it is because it is beetle kill. The way the trees dies from the beetle prevents the sap from running and the trees will season, on the hoof, so to speak. This isn't to say all the dead lodgepole trees will be seasoned enough to burn right away, but if you know which ones to look for when you are cutting, and you get yourself a moisture meter, you'll be able to select only trees that are ready to burn right away and not have to worry about seasoning time at all.
As far as BTUs, in my experience lodgepole pine is as good or better that some hardwoods like elm or walnut. Way easier to cut, split and stack than apple, that coupled with the fact that it can be ready to burn right away makes it very convenient and desirable firewood in my book.
As far as a tarp goes, if you don't have a woodshed (yet), you'll definetly want to tarp your stacks in the winter. Trying to pull splits out of frozen snow covered stacks in freezing weather is not my idea of fun.
 
Bigg_Redd said:
1) The standing dead pine will burn just fine. Any green pine will be a little smokey.

2) I wouldn't bother tarping in WY till winter, and that'd be just to keep the snow off

3) I cut 16" just for shear convenience. When I cut for my dad I cut 18" When I cut for my BIL I cut 24" - I recommend picking a length that works for you then measure and mark before cutting.

4) I agree with your church friend regarding cottonwood. It's about the only species I won't bother with.

I really appreciate reading from someone else to measure and mark before cutting. I really thought hard about doing that but thought I could eyeball it ok... boy was I wrong! Some of them are going to have to be cut in half again!

Thanks everyone for all the help. I did just stack it up tonight and took some photos. I'd be curious to know offhand how many cords you all think these are (yes, I know how to measure them, but I'm not much good at measuring or estimating... never have been. And I'm certainly not looking for exact data off these small pictures). (1st and 2nd pictures are the same stack, 3 deep. 4th and 5th pictures are the same stacks, 2 deep).

Thanks again all,

Sam
 

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samhoff2 said:
I really appreciate reading from someone else to measure and mark before cutting. I really thought hard about doing that but thought I could eyeball it ok... boy was I wrong! Some of them are going to have to be cut in half again!

Thanks everyone for all the help. I did just stack it up tonight and took some photos. I'd be curious to know offhand how many cords you all think these are (yes, I know how to measure them, but I'm not much good at measuring or estimating... never have been. And I'm certainly not looking for exact data off these small pictures). (1st and 2nd pictures are the same stack, 3 deep. 4th and 5th pictures are the same stacks, 2 deep).

Thanks again all,

Sam

Sam,
Just a guess of ~ 2 cords, not knowing how long the average split is. Until your "eyeball" measuring stick gets a little better you might try measuring your widest thumb to ring finger spread (with gloves on if you split with them), or which ever finger gives you the length you want. I find 2 of these gives me exactly 18" every time and I always have the ruler with me ;-) Typically I only have to break out this "ruler" a couple of times when I switch log diameters. On the same log the eyeball starts to work pretty well.
 
Hey Sam, welcome.

I saw it mentioned here, but want to reinforce the importance of getting that wood split asap. Moon is out tonight, so if it's clear, you could get started. Otherwise wait until morning . . . am I getting my point across? That' going to break the bark seal, and expose a lot more surface area to season. Smaller splits season faster.

I heated my house in Jaysusitscoldoutthere, AK last winter on a diet primarily of poplar (aspen, in this neck of the wood). And yes, I got to where I could have overnight burns, but it took awhile to learn my stove. Plan on blasting through more stove in the beginning as you are climbing the slippery slopes of the learning curve--it's easy to overheat and waste heat until you get the swing of things. My technique was to have a run-up fire when I got home from work, which keeps the stove and chimney clean, and generates more house heat, then allow the fire to burn down to coals. Just before bed, I'd rake the coals to the front of the stove, `cap' them with the flat side of a split, put my biggest, heaviest piece of wood against the back wall of the stove, and stack wood in there like I was putting books on a shelf, with not much space between them. This way, the fire would have to burn first through the cap piece, and then ignite the ones above and behind it, and towards morning, the biggest piece would engage. No problem getting an overnight fire in a parlor stove with this trick. You'll find what works best for you, your stove, your wood, your house, and your lifestyle. It's all a system that works together--no one piece tells the whole story. It's kind of an adventure figuring it all out.

No one else said this, so I will. Most newbies pay newbie dues when it comes to firewood. Lots of us use somewhat marginal wood the first winter, or end up scrounging by late winter. You grit your teeth and get through it and decide it's not going to happen again. Don't feel like the Lone Stranger on this one.

Another thing that you'll learn from experience is that the fewer times you can move a pile of wood, the better. Out in the open where there is sun and wind, and stacked with space between as you've done, is good. I can attest from having done both that knocking the snow off a pile of wood isn't ideal, but if you live in a land of dry-ish snow, it's not the end of the world. Some kind of close-to-the-back-door sheltered spot is as good as most of us get. (Whoever it is here who has his wood stored in racks that he moves into his basement with a tractor is the exception to that. You just can't take people like that seriously, or you'd throw up your hands and quit before you start.)

As far as covering wood goes, run a search on here--you'll see some creative solutions. Many of us leave a pile uncovered and just turn the wood barksideup when we stack. I'd bang the snow off my out-in-it piles and bring the piles under my back deck a few weeks' worth at a time. From there, I'd carry it to an inside wood rack that I'd fill about twice a week so that the wood could come up to temp and dry out just a little more. Worked for me.

Trust the learning process. You'll get the hang of it. If that guy at church follows up on his criticism of cottonwood/pine by saying, "I'll drop you off a couple of truckloads of elm and ash so you can compare the difference," pay attention to what he's saying. Otherwise smile and nod, smile and nod.
 
Wow. Thanks for all the great information with details.

When I brought that wood off the mountain it was about 90 degrees for several days, so I just set it aside and figured I would split it when it cools down some this fall. I will get around to it sooner rather than later based on your recommendation. (And, yes, I realize the heat would have helped it dry quickly too!)

I've noticed that my stove has an incredible capacity for choking the oxygen. I assume that's what I want to do at night, is get a fire going at "full on" O2 (which, quite frankly, is pretty light burn--when I open the door it roars to life, so it is being starved even when I have the lever all the open--I'd say it's only getting 20% of what it wants). But then if I slide it all the way closed it practically extinguishes the fire. The other night as an experiment when there were just coals (from one medium size log) on the bottom, I put the lever all the way to "closed." Went to bed. Next morning (8 hours later) the stove was still quite warm, and I stirred the fire and saw glowing embers. So I'm presuming that if I load it up before bed and close it all the way, or maybe ALMOST all the way, I will have no problem keeping it going. But I look forward to figuring it out and your detailed note will certainly help.

I took the day off work tomorrow to head up to the mountains and get one more load of wood (hopefully one more cord, beetlekill pine), and that will probably be stuff to burn next year. I'm thinking about renting a splitter. :)

Thanks again,

Sam
 
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