Hard vs Soft wood during peak heating periods...

[Slow1]

Quotes taken from another thread - starting a new topic as I'd like to read others thoughts on this and don't want to go too far off on a tangent from the other topic....

[quote author="SolarAndWood" date="1262880800"][quote author="Flatbedford" date="1262851498"]I think that my fuel is not as good as I thought it was and that may be shortening my cycle and increasing my coaling. I have 3/4 of next years Ash, Cherry, and Maple mix split and stacked already so next year should be better. I'll also have some Oak for next year as well. The stove is doing great, my drafty old house seems to be the problem.[/quote]

I wouldn't necessarily put it all on the wood. I had the same coaling effect when we went to running hard mode from easy going mode. If you come across some pine in your travels, grab a few cord. It is nice to have around to both accelerate the burn down and generate more heat while you are doing it.[/quote]

I've been wondering about this - One of the great things I hear about burning oak is that it makes such great long lasting coals (at least that is what I was told back in the campfire cooking days). Now softwoods are not known for this. So, does it stand to reason that during the times one is driving the stove hard and you don't want large beds of coals perhaps softer woods may actually be better for burning? Would it make a difference if you are burning a cat vs non-cat stove? I'm thinking in terms of getting the most heat out of the stove at a sustained rate here primarily, but then question of efficiency comes into play too - and naturally I'm assuming equally well seasoned wood.

So any thoughts here? Might it be better to at least mix in some soft woods that don't coal up very well when driving the stove hard (frequent reloads) so reduce coaling?

 

[billb3]

When I mixed in pine, the pine was long gone unless I went back half way through 'a burn' and threw more pine in.

When I burned just pine, I kept reloading and reloading and reloading and reloading and reloading and reloading ......
Got good heat with it, too.

Eastern white pine, which may have the density equivalent of triple wall cardboard.

 

[Battenkiller]

Not just pine, but fast burning softwoods like popple as well. I spoke of this on another thread.

That's why I'm such a fan of mixing woods. I like to mix white ash and cherry to get the best of both worlds. Sometimes in layers (with the cherry on the bottom) when I'm filling for a long burn, sometimes every other split when I'm adding them a few at a time throughout the day. But when I really want to get max heat per hour, I go with a steady supply of dry cherry. Fast burns, minimal coal buildup, lots of stove tending. Easy for me since the stove is in my workshop where I spend much of my day. Go through a lot of it, but it warms the house a lot so I just live with the cost. I have a bunch of box elder from a tree I cut last summer, so I will try that in the spring to see how it works for short bursts of heat in April. A few rounds I brought in to try looked promising.

Pine has the additional benefit of pitch contained within, which I've read burns even hotter. Don't get much pine because the delivery rate per truckload makes it uneconomical, so I can't speak from personal experience. And BTW, this has worked well in my smoke dragons, can't say anything about the new stoves.

 

[Slow1]

I wonder also how the experience would differ on a cat vs non-cat basis. It seems from my (limited) experience so far that the cat stove really likes to burn off that smoke and leave the coals behind, then it cruises for a long while burning down the coals too (not sure what the cat is eating at that point but it stays hot - must be something outgassing eh?). In the end though there does often seem to be some leftover charcoal that can burn nice and hot but smoke free for a good while with enough air. So I wonder if when my pine is ready (I plan to warm up some splits next week, resplit and test them for mc) if I'll find I can choke back the burn enough to feed lots of smoke to the cat and then not have too many 'long lasting' coals left behind.

Anyone with cat and non-cat experience able to comment on this theory?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

A firey load in the stove is hotter, but the coals last longer. On those bun-chafing cold days, pine will help burn down the coal bed so's you can load it up again. I sort of alternate, or mix loads.

Hey- am I agreeing with Buttonchillah? LOL

 

[Jags]

I would agree that a mixture of wood with different burn characteristics is a plus, but I would also like to throw in a monkey wrench too. You can basically obtain the same results with smaller split sizes if you are species challenged. Instead of throwing coffee can diameter hunks of white oak in the stove and expecting it to blaze to the end, use smaller splits. The increase in surface area will increase flamage and degrease the big ol pile of coals. And the real kicker is, you will probably get the same pounds of fuel into the stove (or at least close) because of the ability to reduce large gaps between chunks.

 

[fire_man]

Not just pine, but fast burning softwoods like popple as well. I spoke of this on another thread.

That's why I'm such a fan of mixing woods. I like to mix white ash and cherry to get the best of both worlds. Sometimes in layers (with the cherry on the bottom) when I'm filling for a long burn, sometimes every other split when I'm adding them a few at a time throughout the day. But when I really want to get max heat per hour, I go with a steady supply of dry cherry. Fast burns, minimal coal buildup, lots of stove tending. Easy for me since the stove is in my workshop where I spend much of my day. Go through a lot of it, but it warms the house a lot so I just live with the cost. I have a bunch of box elder from a tree I cut last summer, so I will try that in the spring to see how it works for short bursts of heat in April. A few rounds I brought in to try looked promising.

Pine has the additional benefit of pitch contained within, which I've read burns even hotter. Don't get much pine because the delivery rate per truckload makes it uneconomical, so I can't speak from personal experience. And BTW, this has worked well in my smoke dragons, can't say anything about the new stoves.

I just got a Grapple Load delivered and it has one HUGE Box Elder in it. I was originally bummed, but after reading this thread maybe this wood will work like you said so that I can just keep loading it on really cold days with less coal buildup. I guess we will find out. I have a bunch of cherry, too.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It is very simple. If someone is around to tend the fire, burn the softer woods. If you need to hold fire a longer time, burn the hardest of hardwoods. For most people, it is a case of burning whatever they happen to have on hand and a lot of them do not know what they are burning.

Sometimes it is pretty simple with us. We burn a mix; that is, different sized splits of ash.

 

[begreen]

During peak heating needs I hold off on the pine and hemlock and switch to mixing in my stash of cherry and locust with the base of fir and alder. The stovetop gets hotter and stays there longer with good hardwood.

 

[jadm]

I, too, fall into the 'burn a mix' category.

When I carry wood into the house I can only carry 2 pieces at a time. It has it's advantage in that I can place each piece in my indoor stack where I want it all depending on outdoor temps. at the time.

Drives my husband nuts but I love knowing what is going into the insert, approx. how long it will last, how it will burn down and how it will all burn together.

 

[Slow1]

When I carry wood into the house I can only carry 2 pieces at a time. It has it's advantage in that I can place each piece in my indoor stack where I want it all depending on outdoor temps. at the time.

Drives my husband nuts ...

Would drive me crazy too.. sorry! I roll my rack over to the back door where the deck wood rack is and load up 2-3 days worth at a time, then roll it over next to the stove. Whole operation has to take 10 minutes or less, bit more including cleanup and/or snow removal if needed. Sure, I look at the wood as I pile it on, but in this cold weather I try to have that door open as little as possible. Time to look at the wood for me is when I'm plotting my stove load, that's when I sit there stacking it on the hearth pad next to the stove picking pieces from the pile for their shape etc...

 

[fire_man]

It is very simple. If someone is around to tend the fire, burn the softer woods. If you need to hold fire a longer time, burn the hardest of hardwoods. For most people, it is a case of burning whatever they happen to have on hand and a lot of them do not know what they are burning.

Sometimes it is pretty simple with us. We burn a mix; that is, different sized splits of ash.

Sounds like a great plan. Now I'm looking forward to getting my softwood seasoned! I was getting bummed because I did a search on Cottonwood and Box Elder and it sounded like most would gladly give it away. But other posts make it sound like even these softwoods have their place in a burn cycle depending on circumstances. Kind of like some people see the flakes of bark that fall off as trash but I see it as great kindling!

 

[SolarAndWood]

So any thoughts here? Might it be better to at least mix in some soft woods that don't coal up very well when driving the stove hard (frequent reloads) so reduce coaling?

My goal during the cold stretches is to maximize heat output while getting long enough burn times to keep the eternal flame going and controlling coal buildup. For me, full loads of hardwoods and then completely opening the air about 2/3 of the way through the burn seems to work best. If it is cold, blowin, or haven't had any solar gain, I throw some pine in when I open up the air. It seems that reload time is the same with or without the pine, you just get more heat when you add the pine. I am sure this is not the most efficient use of wood but it seems to produce the most heat from a sustainable fire. Given my time is free, my cost of wood is pretty low, especially the pine.

 

[firefighterjake]

Burn it all . . . let God sort out the carbon emissions.

Actually, what I burn depends on what I need . . . shoulder season burns may be all softwood, when it's wicked cold out and I really need the BTUs it may be all hardwood and when I'm just burning around the house I may do a mix.

 

[moosetrek]

What's hardwood?

 

[jadm]

When I carry wood into the house I can only carry 2 pieces at a time. It has it's advantage in that I can place each piece in my indoor stack where I want it all depending on outdoor temps. at the time.

Drives my husband nuts ...

Would drive me crazy too.. sorry! I roll my rack over to the back door where the deck wood rack is and load up 2-3 days worth at a time, then roll it over next to the stove. Whole operation has to take 10 minutes or less, bit more including cleanup and/or snow removal if needed. Sure, I look at the wood as I pile it on, but in this cold weather I try to have that door open as little as possible. Time to look at the wood for me is when I'm plotting my stove load, that's when I sit there stacking it on the hearth pad next to the stove picking pieces from the pile for their shape etc...

I don't leave the door open. I put wood onto a chair right inside the door. When I have enough I then take it over to the 'ready to burn' stack. (Husband is usually gone when I do this and kids are still asleep.)

Our weather here isn't as sever as yours is. Mostly we have sun even when temps. are down. Back door only stays open for a few seconds at a time....(I am quick. ;-) )

 

[lexybird]

pine doesnt last nearly as long as quality hardwood and it doesnt coal well and leaves too much ash in my opinion its only useful for starting quick hotfires
not long sustained ones in the dead of winter yes we know the guys on the east and up north have nothing but crappy conifers to burn and they dont freeze to death *but if you have the choice obviosuly choose hardwood its a no brainer ,it will last longer coal better and throw more heat over a longer period of time.softwoods are acceptable for quick hot fires to take the chill off i n a hurry

 

[Battenkiller]

A firey load in the stove is hotter, but the coals last longer. On those bun-chafing cold days, pine will help burn down the coal bed so's you can load it up again. I sort of alternate, or mix loads.

Hey- am I agreeing with Buttonchillah? LOL

Imagine that! :lol: Next thing you know you'll be drying your wood in your freezer and sealing the end grain in your bow blanks.

 

[rickw]

I'm starting to come around to the smaller split theory. Have been burning big chunks of 2 yr old (stacked) oak and the coaling has been fierce. Opening the air up near the end of the burn cycle helps. Also have some pine which doesn't throw as much heat and also doesn't coal as much. If loading frequency wasn't an issue I might conclude that pine is no worse in cold weather, as I can keep throwing more in without the firebox clogging. Think that a smaller split size would probably help with the oak, I'm just about through the big pieces (nasty stringy snaggly stuff, or I'd just resplit it) and into some smaller stuff - we'll see how that works.

Reloaded with pine last night at 11, stovetop about 300 this AM and have still not reloaded at 8:30. It did just fine overnight on the pine.

One thing I've noticed on my FV, if a reload is on top of a big bed of coals the cat doesn't seem to glow. If the reload is in a mostly empty firebox the cat will visibly lite off. Maybe the available oxygen is being sucked up by the coals; leaving less for the cat?