harman accentra will not turn off

[firefans]

one of the function about ESP I read is for safety reason, prevent burn back. If the the temperature around 265 to 300 or above, it will continue to feed slowly until temperature drop to safe level. Once stove temperature drop to safe level, control board would send signal to auger to stop feeding pellet.
I wonder is it possible to device a test with ESP by pull out the ESP (of course unplug all power first). put it on side or( put it close to a heater keep some sort temperature) Light up the stove let it heat up. Turn it to OFF. leave the ESP probe in room temperature.
The ESP probe would be cool enough to tell the auger to stop feeding.
I am hoping to find out this stove not shut down issue really related to ESP probe or (something prevent its reading correctly)
Since Forya change both control board and esp probe.

 

[wil lanfear]

This is an ongoing problem for me. After a hard reset I can get it to shut off, but after it shuts off once, it won't do it again. I think the switch is a good idea. where do you put it?

I would wholeheartedly suggest NOT adding this switch.......might sound like a good idea, but in doing so, you invalidate the UL listing, thereby making it uninsureable, invalidate any warrantee offered by Harman as well, and pretty much guaranteeing any technician SHOULD take one look at your modified stove and turn around, and run away, fast. I guess its your stove, but make these decisions at your own peril, and be prepared to live up to the possible consequences of your actions.

Lets set the record straight, Harman stoves are not UL listed, they are saftey tested and listed by Omni-Test Laboratories. I can't imagine Harman or for that matter,any other stove manufacturer voiding a warranty because a switch was installed that de-energizes components that need to be energized in order for the stove to continue burning. As far as a tech running away fast after seeing a switch, I think everyone knows what a switch is, this tech may ask what the switch is being used for though. I'm wondering what a person is to do in the event of a control board failure, as we know they do, which may result in burning pellets being pushed into the ash pan, unplug the stove which may fill the home with smoke, empty the hopper as fast as you can in hopes that the fire doesn't get out of control, NO THANKS, I'll just turn my switch off, stopping the feed of pellets.

 

[firefans]

Well tonight I disconnect the pipe and clean up vent area around the ESP probe. I turn it to stove temp and light it up. After run for a while, turn it to OFF. Result is the same. Stove refused to shut down. This is pretty frustrated.
The previous owner did not pass any warranty information to me. It is probably expired.
Service call maybe too expensive for me. I look up price for control board is about $210 and ESP probe is about $74. Maybe the cheap bet is ESP. But ESP probe is just thermister, like thermocouple in water heater, should not go bad so easy.
Well...probably a switch is really a good answer.

 

[firefans]

I got a verdict after all kind of testing today for my Accentra 2. It is the control board.
I first took a ESP from a Harman Advance and put it it the Accentra. Result is the same. I then took the control board from advance and I put it in the Accentra, it take about 30 minutes to totally starve the flame in burn pot and completely shut down.
One important note is the control board I pull from Advance is old style, WITHOUT DIP SWITCH and it got a JUMPER on J2 position.

The control board of Accentra with problem shutting down label as 3-20-05374
I cannot find label the old one working. I only see f3859 EB (EB is hand written) while the one having problem shut down is f5370 AB (3-20-05374)

Since Forya also experiences shutting down after changing to newer board. Could this problem related to new board or board design.

Anywhere I can find an older design board to replace the one in my acccentra ? If not, what is my best bet ? Electronic part cannot be returned once purchase regardless it shut down the stove or not. I appreciate you shed me light here.

 

[wil lanfear]

The way I see your situation is that you have a few choices, have a Harman tech come with a DDM to determine what component has failed and replace it, add a switch as I did or empty the pellets every time that you want to shut the stove down. I did find in all the Harman stove owners manuals that they mention the best way to shut them down is to let them run out of pellets, I thought this to be odd, I would have thought turning the mode selector switch to off would have been the "best way".

 

[forya]

So you just put the switch on one of the two wires feeding the auger motor? Is the motor ac or dc? and which wire did you break?

 

[forya]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

 

[wil lanfear]

So you just put the switch on one of the two wires feeding the auger motor? Is the motor ac or dc? and which wire did you break?

You could do that, motor is ac. I chose to use the vac switch or as Harman calls it the low pressue switch, using the vac switch, it also disables the igniter. Looking at the electrical drawing in your owners manual, the vac switch has two terminals with a white wire going to one and the other has two light blue wires. Gently unplug the two blue wires that are connected together with a female push connector. Now you need a piece of #16 stranded wire with a insulated male push connector crimped on to it, wire long enough to connect to the new switch location from the blue wires. The other side of the switch, a wire with a insulated female push connector connects to the vac switch where you removed the blue wires. The switch in the on position, stove operates normal, switch in the off position, auger and igniter are disabled, the distribution and combustion blowers will continue to run in the off position.

 

[wil lanfear]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

The info that I have shows switch # 6 off, don't know if it has anything to do with your issue.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/vtreloader/scan0001.jpg

 

[forya]

Good info. #6 seems to just be an offset for the thermostat, but I will try it in the off position next time I run out of pellets.

 

[Lousyweather]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

The info that I have shows switch # 6 off, don't know if it has anything to do with your issue.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/vtreloader/scan0001.jpg

the thing is, the diagram you supplied is somewhat old......there have been at least 2 revisions made since your chart was produced....I believe Harman is now shipping "E" revision boards, and we dont know which revision the OP has in the first place.......dont think switch 6 is going to make thatmuch of a difference anyhow.....

 

[wil lanfear]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

The info that I have shows switch # 6 off, don't know if it has anything to do with your issue.
quote]

the thing is, the diagram you supplied is somewhat old......there have been at least 2 revisions made since your chart was produced....I believe Harman is now shipping "E" revision boards, and we dont know which revision the OP has in the first place.......dont think switch 6 is going to make thatmuch of a difference anyhow.....

I suspect when the OP had the board replaced on Dec.22 that it was replaced with the latest revised board, part # 1-00-05886. If you have a chart with the latest dip switch settings for this board relating to his stove please post the switch position settings, it would be interesting to see if they have changed in relation to my old chart.

 

[firefans]

So you just put the switch on one of the two wires feeding the auger motor? Is the motor ac or dc? and which wire did you break?

You could do that, motor is ac. I chose to use the vac switch or as Harman calls it the low pressue switch, using the vac switch, it also disables the igniter. Looking at the electrical drawing in your owners manual, the vac switch has two terminals with a white wire going to one and the other has two light blue wires. Gently unplug the two blue wires that are connected together with a female push connector. Now you need a piece of #16 stranded wire with a insulated male push connector crimped on to it, wire long enough to connect to the new switch location from the blue wires. The other side of the switch, a wire with a insulated female push connector connects to the vac switch where you removed the blue wires. The switch in the on position, stove operates normal, switch in the off position, auger and igniter are disabled, the distribution and combustion blowers will continue to run in the off position.

Today I added a switch as suggested and it is working like a charm ! Once I switch it to OFF, I let it burn another 5 minute to diminish the flame in burnpot as an extra safety measure. Then I flip the switch to turn off the auger (also the ignitor). The flame soon starve out and the blower continue to cool stove and totally shut it down after some time.
Thank you so much. I am good for the time being before we can figure what went wrong with the control board and what correct control board I can use to address this issue.
Thank you again.

 

[Lousyweather]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

The info that I have shows switch # 6 off, don't know if it has anything to do with your issue.
quote]

the thing is, the diagram you supplied is somewhat old......there have been at least 2 revisions made since your chart was produced....I believe Harman is now shipping "E" revision boards, and we dont know which revision the OP has in the first place.......dont think switch 6 is going to make thatmuch of a difference anyhow.....

I suspect when the OP had the board replaced on Dec.22 that it was replaced with the latest revised board, part # 1-00-05886. If you have a chart with the latest dip switch settings for this board relating to his stove please post the switch position settings, it would be interesting to see if they have changed in relation to my old chart.

well, sadly, I dont have a scanner, and cant scan the "E" revision instructions, but yes, they are in fact different than the one you posted. Your above diagram is for a "B" revision board, where all switches are OFF except for 5, which, in the diagram, is ON. Now, the "E" revision board, (same circuit board number, by the way), has 1,3,5,6 as ON, while 2,4,7,8 are shown as OFF (this is for a freestanding Accentra)......so, yea, it does seem as if there might be a difference there........now, since the OP had their board replaced on Dec 22, and this "E" revision board came out roughly in October of 2010, then, in fact, he likely should be using my above settings rather than your older settings from April of 2009. The OP can determine which board he/she has by looking at the stencil in the board.....the part number will be followed by a letter, ergo, the revision designation. I feel if he has it replaced in dec of 2011, its quite likely he has the e revision unit.

 

[wil lanfear]

I opened up my control board and my DIP switches are: 1 on, 2 off, 3 on, 4 off, 5 on, 6 on, 7 off, 8 off.
I can't tell if this is right or not. At least 5 is on, and I do have the ESP with the red wires

The info that I have shows switch # 6 off, don't know if it has anything to do with your issue.
quote]

the thing is, the diagram you supplied is somewhat old......there have been at least 2 revisions made since your chart was produced....I believe Harman is now shipping "E" revision boards, and we dont know which revision the OP has in the first place.......dont think switch 6 is going to make thatmuch of a difference anyhow.....

I suspect when the OP had the board replaced on Dec.22 that it was replaced with the latest revised board, part # 1-00-05886. If you have a chart with the latest dip switch settings for this board relating to his stove please post the switch position settings, it would be interesting to see if they have changed in relation to my old chart.

well, sadly, I dont have a scanner, and cant scan the "E" revision instructions, but yes, they are in fact different than the one you posted. Your above diagram is for a "B" revision board, where all switches are OFF except for 5, which, in the diagram, is ON. Now, the "E" revision board, (same circuit board number, by the way), has 1,3,5,6 as ON, while 2,4,7,8 are shown as OFF (this is for a freestanding Accentra)......so, yea, it does seem as if there might be a difference there........now, since the OP had their board replaced on Dec 22, and this "E" revision board came out roughly in October of 2010, then, in fact, he likely should be using my above settings rather than your older settings from April of 2009. The OP can determine which board he/she has by looking at the stencil in the board.....the part number will be followed by a letter, ergo, the revision designation. I feel if he has it replaced in dec of 2011, its quite likely he has the e revision unit.

In post # 56, the OP signature shows that it is a Accentra insert, not the freestanding Accentra. The dip switch positionings have been set the same as what you have posted for the freestanding Accentra, maybe they shoudn't be the same as the freestanding Accentra???

 

[Lousyweather]

dang! youre right Wil! Didnt see the insert notation! Anyhow, in checking the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are "ON" for 3,5,6, and "OFF" for 1,2,4,7,8 . I dont think they should be set the same as the FS model. Regardless, those switch settings are still different than the recommended ones on the "B" revision board, and should probably be set that way. Kind of a moot point in not knowing what the revision is in the OP unit....maybe he has an errant B revision and your chart is right? A DDM actually gives the circuit board settings without disassembling the stove (tho if you dont know the correct settings, it wont tell you that either!)

We actually do have a fair amount of confusion these days when customers call on an insert or a FS unit.....they are both often called an "Accentra", and the insert part gets left off. Being that settings are different, cleaning is different, some parts are different, and configuration is different, its pretty important to know what the customer is talking about......this post is a perfect example.
Sometimes an issue such as "my stove wont shut down" is easier to diagnose onsite rather than on a web page or over the phone. Often, VERY often, the issue is something as simple as changing a switch setting or a probe out.....thats why Im not a big fan of folks modifying their units....yup, the mod might make sense, and it might work, but it also adds another layer of complexity and issues that rather than fixing the unit, just serves to complicate things. When we work on these stoves, we assume some responsibility and accountability in doing so. When a foreign, non-tested part is added, we also have to take responsibility for that modification...which is why we wont work on units which have been modified. Fortunately, some folks (many here), are quite technically adept, and feel relatively safe in their modifications. The danger here is other less-adept folks read this, and attempt mods of their own....which can be kinda scary. I daresay that your inurance company wouldnt be thrilled with ANY mod made to a heating appliance if it hadnt been done by the original manufacturer or their agents.

 

[firefans]

You guys are savvies in this forum. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I learn a great deal of pellet stove here. I also agree one should weight on the risk when he decides to work on the stove. My friend told me in some extreme case, some insurance company refused to cover fire caused by second hand stove. (simply because stove are not bought in brand new condition). A policy is often set up from the best interest of the insurance company, not from consumer. My day time job is a computer tech. Whenever there is a system wide problem affecting hundreds of users. We need to deal with it right away. It is like a fireman, putting out a patch to fix imminent problem and then look for long term solution. I would say even a pro does not always know answers to many problems. For example, we often blindly believe in medical doctors. I personally and many friends I know experience misdiagnosis and paid a huge price for it. It is the patient sometimes knows his /body better. The doctors only see you no more than 20 minutes in examination room and then ring the bell for next.

It is this kind of forum often produce the best result of problem solving. One can take a step back and think through the problem clearly, not in a rush and panic mode. So I applause to all of you.

My own perception is Harman makes the best pellet stove and Vermont make the best wood stove. Yet this does not guarantee the products are trouble free. I hope this process would help vendor to improve their product besides of helping one another solving their own imminent problem.

Life involves all kinds of risks. Applying 2nd law of thermodynamics to daily life, everything tends to break unless we try to maintain (fix) it. On the other hand, quantum mechanics also tells us we are living in a bizarre world which we do not fully understand it. For example, according to quantum mechanics, if we bang our head to the wall for a million times, there are one or two chances we can pass through the all without hurting ourseleves. We often think our world is governed by some sort laws but very often they are contradicting one another.

Industrial revolution provides us all kinds of tool and transportation means. Is industrialization good or bad? It is hard to draw a conclusion. On one hand it provides us all kinds of comfort but on the other hand it dries up the resource of this green planet and might eventually put mankind to extinct sooner than it supposed to be.
Anyway, using pellet stove is considered as green and environmental friendly.

When I see the deer and once in a while a bear running on the hill, I feel I am fortunate as human being. A deer or bear have no knowledge of using fire; nor they know how to pick up a stick or stone during a fight for survival. Somehow human knows all these. We got greater power over all animals. The question is can we discipline ourselves and do not abuse our blessing power. Something happen over there we feel it here. The reality is it is a spontaneous chain reaction, even though we do not know where it start and where it ends. (or Starting and Ending are merely human concept after all)
I don't have anything to contribute to the stove fixing. So I just share my thoughts with you.

 

[Lousyweather]

deep...way too deep for me......Im still looking at the Italian Beauty in the Italian Beauty post!

 

[forya]

So I opened it up again and I do have a REV E board (F5371AA REV E). My date stamp on the Insert is AUG 2009. Where should my switches be set? If I can avoid adding the cut off switch for the auger I will.

 

[wil lanfear]

So I opened it up again and I do have a REV E board (F5371AA REV E). My date stamp on the Insert is AUG 2009. Where should my switches be set? If I can avoid adding the cut off switch for the auger I will.

Post # 65:the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are “ON†for 3,5,6, and “OFF†for 1,2,4,7,8 . Why not have the dealer that installed the new controller under the warranty come to see why the stove isn't shutting down, you mentioned that the shutting down issue happened after the controller was replaced ??

 

[Lousyweather]

So I opened it up again and I do have a REV E board (F5371AA REV E). My date stamp on the Insert is AUG 2009. Where should my switches be set? If I can avoid adding the cut off switch for the auger I will.

Post # 65:the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are “ON†for 3,5,6, and “OFF†for 1,2,4,7,8 . Why not have the dealer that installed the new controller under the warranty come to see why the stove isn't shutting down, you mentioned that the shutting down issue happened after the controller was replaced ??

I agree with Wil.......sounds to me like the installer POSSIBLY didnt set the switches right, which frankly is almost inexcuseable, since in the package with the board is switch instructions, as well as new knobs and shafts.......and while he/she is there, have them DDM the thing

 

[forya]

Where can I find the instructions for the Rev E board? I saw in a post by Lousyweather That I am to have "Didnt see the insert notation! Anyhow, in checking the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are “ON†for 3,5,6, and “OFF†for 1,2,4,7,8 " and I have on: 1,3,5,6 and off: 2,4,7,8. I think This is the problem, but I can not find the instructions for the REV E board anywhere.

 

[wil lanfear]

Where can I find the instructions for the Rev E board? I saw in a post by Lousyweather That I am to have "Didnt see the insert notation! Anyhow, in checking the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are “ON†for 3,5,6, and “OFF†for 1,2,4,7,8 " and I have on: 1,3,5,6 and off: 2,4,7,8. I think This is the problem, but I can not find the instructions for the REV E board anywhere.

Post number 65 of this thread.

dang! youre right Wil! Didnt see the insert notation! Anyhow, in checking the revision E instructions for standard settings for an Accentra INSERT, the settings are “ON†for 3,5,6, and “OFF†for 1,2,4,7,8 .

 

[forya]

Do you have a link to a printout of the REV E Dip switches? I want to send it to my dealer

 

[wil lanfear]

Do you have a link to a printout of the REV E Dip switches? I want to send it to my dealer

I do not. If the stove is still covered under the warranty, if your dealer installed the new controller, if the issue with not shutting down happened after the new controller was installed, WHY hasn't the dealer been contacted explaining to him the issue?????