Harman PF-100 flame shape and behavior

[mlerley]

Newbie here. Just installed a new Harman PF-100 pellet furnace and I'm loving it. I am concerned about the flame however -- I recently helped my father-in-law install his new PF-100 and my flame acts considerably different from his. His flame angles about 45 degrees to the left and hits directly on the heat exchanger, and looks a lot like the flame videos I've seen on this site. Mine, however, goes straight up from the burn pot. This doesn't seem right to me. Everything seems to be connected correctly, and the whole system works. The flame just doesn't seem to be quite right. I've attached a video.

Is there anything obvious that could cause this? It seems like maybe there should be air coming through the hopper area somewhere to force the flame over, but I can't tell. Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[jtakeman]

How different is your venting compared to his? Vent(draw/draft) have a large effect on what happens inside. If his is angled away I assume more draft. Yours being straight, I assume less draft.

 

[mlerley]

His is a short run with one 90 into a chimney. Mine is direct vent, also with one 90. Attached are photos of my installation. Is there something I can do to adjust the draft? I know the manual says there's no high draft adjustment, and I don't think the low draft applies here (does it? I really have no clue). Can the speed of the combustion fan be adjusted? Does that impact it?

 

[jtakeman]

Actually with his being connected to the chimney, He has more draft(natural). To get a similar effect you would have to add rise in you vent or increase motor speed. But I don't necessarily think there is much wrong with yours. Hard to say his is right either. He may have too much draft and actually be sucking heat up his flue. This extra draft may lower the efficiency of his. About the only draw back if yours does have too little draft would be a dirtier burn.

Personally before you do anything see what other PF100 owners say about theirs or at least try yours for a while. See how it burns first. Another thing you could do is measure tha current on both and compair. I haven't a clue if you can actually changer it though!

 

[hossthehermit]

Newbie here. Just installed a new Harman PF-100 pellet furnace and I'm loving it. I am concerned about the flame however -- I recently helped my father-in-law install his new PF-100 and my flame acts considerably different from his. His flame angles about 45 degrees to the left and hits directly on the heat exchanger, and looks a lot like the flame videos I've seen on this site. Mine, however, goes straight up from the burn pot. This doesn't seem right to me. Everything seems to be connected correctly, and the whole system works. The flame just doesn't seem to be quite right. I've attached a video.

Is there anything obvious that could cause this? It seems like maybe there should be air coming through the hopper area somewhere to force the flame over, but I can't tell. Thoughts? Thanks!

The flame leaning to the left is an indication that your FIL is properly indoctrinated in his political leanings. Your flame, going straight up, marks you as a fence-sitting, wishy-washy, lost soul. Fear not, YOU WILL BE SHOWN THE TRUE PATH.

 

[mlerley]

The flame leaning to the left is an indication that your FIL is properly indoctrinated in his political leanings. Your flame, going straight up, marks you as a fence-sitting, wishy-washy, lost soul. Fear not, YOU WILL BE SHOWN THE TRUE PATH.

And here I was thinking I was just being the neutral observer... perhaps I still have time!

 

[mlerley]

Actually with his being connected to the chimney, He has more draft(natural). To get a similar effect you would have to add rise in you vent or increase motor speed. But I don't necessarily think there is much wrong with yours. Hard to say his is right either. He may have too much draft and actually be sucking heat up his flue. This extra draft may lower the efficiency of his. About the only draw back if yours does have too little draft would be a dirtier burn.

Personally before you do anything see what other PF100 owners say about theirs or at least try yours for a while. See how it burns first. Another thing you could do is measure tha current on both and compair. I haven't a clue if you can actually changer it though!

My only concern is that it is really hugging the fire brick, and it is leaving a bit of soot on the outer edges of where the flame sits. It seems like it's not as efficient as it could be, but it does seem to be working pretty well. It's been so mild here so far that I haven't even really run it yet. In fact I've not even burned half a bag yet. As long as it doesn't look like it's going to be a Bad Thing, I'll just keep an eye on it and see how it works out. Thanks!

 

[dmaclaren]

Your flame should not go straight up. Call a local P100 dealer and check why. My thoughts is that it's not getting proper combustion air. The air in is just above the fire box so I can't see how it can go up.

Also, the heat should be against the far side above the heat plate on the accordion plate. Here are links of mine from last year This is at startup so the flame is a little longer and more orange. When it settles down, it it still at that angle

 

[mlerley]

Your flame should not go straight up. Call a local P100 dealer and check why. My thoughts is that it's not getting proper combustion air. The air in is just above the fire box so I can't see how it can go up.

Also, the heat should be against the far side above the heat plate on the accordion plate. Here are links of mine from last year This is at startup so the flame is a little longer and more orange. When it settles down, it it still at that angle

Yeah it looks a whole lot different from yours. I'll give the dealer a call. Thanks.

 

[jtakeman]

Do the PF100's have a place to hook up an OAK?

Keep us posted on the cure, An end to the story will help new comers. No end is a dead end and nothing gained. Thanks!

 

[mlerley]

Do the PF100's have a place to hook up an OAK?

Keep us posted on the cure, An end to the story will help new comers. No end is a dead end and nothing gained. Thanks!

It does have an OAK kit, but my house is rather old and has plenty of holes in it. My understanding is an OAK is more important in newer, tighter homes. Besides, with windows and doors open the flame still looks the same.

Will definitely report back when I get some info.

 

[dmaclaren]

Your flame should not go straight up. Call a local P100 dealer and check why. My thoughts is that it's not getting proper combustion air. The air in is just above the fire box so I can't see how it can go up.

Also, the heat should be against the far side above the heat plate on the accordion plate. Here are links of mine from last year This is at startup so the flame is a little longer and more orange. When it settles down, it it still at that angle

Yeah it looks a whole lot different from yours. I'll give the dealer a call. Thanks.

When going, the flame is less huge orange flame and more bright with it about 4 - 5" past the pot only at most.

 

[heat seeker]

One advantage of an OAK is that you aren't pulling heated inside air into the stove, which has to be replace by cold outside air coming into the house. Opinions differ as to whether it matters or not - I favor the OAK.

 

[exoilburner]

Have you removed your upper and lower baffle plates and removed the pile of flyash below the heat exchanger? Also check the flyash build-up in your vent pipe, and combustion blower blades. Check the combustion blower plate sealing overlap and make sure it is clean and seated completely. It is easy to get the sealing plate cocked instead of seated properly. See the install manual maintenance section.

 

[Ejectr]

I just had a PF100 installed and my flame is similar to yours. Nowhere near the angle shown in those videos. Couldn't get my draft below 44 on installation with 4" vent pipe.

 

[Skippydo]

Any PF100 users have any trouble with the burn on the upper baffle plate?
My burn seems concentrated on the top middle of the upper baffle plate,
causing a slight buckle. I had the baffle plate replaced last year, late in the
season.First 2 1/2 years had no problems.

 

[mlerley]

This stove is brand new -- there is no buildup yet. Total runtime is probably 45 minutes.

Until tonight I had been running with just half a bag of pellets or so -- tonight I filled the hopper completely and my low fuel light is still on. I'm thinking there might be an issue with the feeder assembly somewhere. Or maybe it has something to do with a bad low fuel sensor? Dunno. Putting a call into the dealer in the morning.

 

[dmaclaren]

Have you removed your upper and lower baffle plates and removed the pile of flyash below the heat exchanger? Also check the flyash build-up in your vent pipe, and combustion blower blades. Check the combustion blower plate sealing overlap and make sure it is clean and seated completely. It is easy to get the sealing plate cocked instead of seated properly. See the install manual maintenance section.

That's on dirty girl!

 

[dmaclaren]

Any PF100 users have any trouble with the burn on the upper baffle plate?
My burn seems concentrated on the top middle of the upper baffle plate,
causing a slight buckle. I had the baffle plate replaced last year, late in the
season.First 2 1/2 years had no problems.

As you saw in my video, that is where my flame is on start up. After that initial, maybe 10 minutes, it's not touching but angled.

I would like to know if Harman changed something to have the flame go straight up but I can't see that as an improvement as the metal behind the baffle plate is the main area the blower pushes heat through.

 

[dmaclaren]

I was thinking about changing the chains to ones that are a bit thicker. I bought a 3" brush to clean out the tubes more as the chains just don't fully clean them.

 

[mlerley]

Any PF100 users have any trouble with the burn on the upper baffle plate?
My burn seems concentrated on the top middle of the upper baffle plate,
causing a slight buckle. I had the baffle plate replaced last year, late in the
season.First 2 1/2 years had no problems.

As you saw in my video, that is where my flame is on start up. After that initial, maybe 10 minutes, it's not touching but angled.

I would like to know if Harman changed something to have the flame go straight up but I can't see that as an improvement as the metal behind the baffle plate is the main area the blower pushes heat through.

According to the nameplate, my unit was manufactured in 2008. So ... not really a new design. I wonder though if a later revision has fixed something?

 

[Ejectr]

Any PF100 users have any trouble with the burn on the upper baffle plate?
My burn seems concentrated on the top middle of the upper baffle plate,
causing a slight buckle. I had the baffle plate replaced last year, late in the
season.First 2 1/2 years had no problems.

As you saw in my video, that is where my flame is on start up. After that initial, maybe 10 minutes, it's not touching but angled.

I would like to know if Harman changed something to have the flame go straight up but I can't see that as an improvement as the metal behind the baffle plate is the main area the blower pushes heat through.

According to the nameplate, my unit was manufactured in 2008. So ... not really a new design. I wonder though if a later revision has fixed something?

Mine is also manufactured in 2008. I also have a blinking red light on the thermostat even though the hopper is full. Low fuel light is on on the control panel. Unit has been used less than 2 bags of pellets so fly ash is not the problem.

 

[dmaclaren]

I checked my plate and it is 7/2006. Lately my COmbustion motor won't turn off and not the low fuel light will stay on, after I refill, unless I turn the unit off then back on.

I called on a new control panel as I don't have a bad combustion sensor or fuel sensor. They are pricing them at about $150. I may buy one this year for piece of mind. This way, if anything happens after that, I have the old one I can pop in without the need to wait.

I love my unit and I already broke even due to the 1500 tax rebate. I will now start to save about $1300 - 1500 a winter.

 

[mascoma]

Off topic but... Can PF100 be set up to run with multiple zones/stats in a house?

 

[dmaclaren]

If the unit can be used with a normal thermostat and you have a control board and dampers, I am sure it could be hooked up.

Nice thing about the zones is that when the unit turns off, the dampers are all open which is good as the harman takes a while to cool off.


I have dual zone on my furnace, my PF100 ducts into the main trunk. I have never felt better in this house then with the pellet unit and the unit feeding both zones, I'll never go back to zones.