Has anyone done the real math that counts? . . .

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RKS130

Minister of Fire
Oct 14, 2011
601
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Let me start off by saying how grateful I am to all those "who know" on this forum for all the great information I have gathered to help me in my new pellet heating experience.

But, I do have one question. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the heat output of various pellet brands (I am ignorant for this purpose of the issues like ash buildup, etc.). But has anyone done the real math? . . . and if they did, does it matter?

By which I mean if one pellet brand gives me 8000 btu and another gives me 8500 btu, does it make it more cost efficient to burn the higher btu pellet? . . . or is the difference at the end of the season so insignificant that I might as well burn the cheaper pellet and spend less $$ overall?

I might have to burn more pellets with the lower end pellet - like American Wood Fibers from HD - but do I get enough more heat over the course of a season from Cubex or Okies to make a difference in my overall cost. I am not sure that pure BTU counting is the answer. On the other hand, comfort and ease of reaching the desired heat level also make a difference.

Hopefully, those who know will tell me.
 
There's more to the equation than just $$$. Like how much time do you want to spend cleaning the stove using below average pellets as compared to highly rated ones ? Generally, using the cheap pellets will result in your stove getting dirtier much faster. The more ash, the less heat transference. The lower grade pellets generally provide less BTU's to begin with and then add on the extra layer of ash, you really can see less heat per pellet dollar spent. If you inclined to clean the stove more frequently to keep it, it tip top fashion then use the el-cheepo's. If you've got a life outside of pellet stoves then it is probably worth spending a little more for a quality pellet.
 
I haven't done the math, but it's real-world proven for me to spend the extra money on the better pellet.

A cheaper/colder pellet, i need to run my stove one notch higher than on a better pellet to keep my place at X temp.

A bag a day vs 1 1/2 bags a day is about a $2.50 difference per day. So, unless the good pelelts are $5 and the cheap ones are $2.50, it's usually a better deal to get the better pellet, as the cheap ones aren't half price of the better ones.

End up using less which costs less for the same heat. I don't buy any cheap pellets to try to save a buck. IMO, they always cost more.
Plus, there's usually less maintence too as far as cleaning and ash build up.


Of course, the cheap pellets do have their use-- the should season-- now. And early spring. Oakies will make your face red in april, but a cheap pellets will be just right.
 
Every stove is different. So like you said about measuring temperature, is a crap shoot. Somebody might have X stove, burning X pellet, and gets 190* I might have a different stove than X, but burn the same pellet and get 220*.

This is all dependent on MANY factors (stove, pellet, exchanger, measuring device, measuring device placement, feed rate, to name a few) I do it just to have my own metrics. This tells me whats good in MY stove and because I heat MY house. Sharing these #'s may help. It may not. Even the same stove, with the same pellet will be different, to some degree (elevation, venting, dirty stove)

As for BTU's. It does matter. A hotter pellet will do the same as a cooler (lower BTU) pellet. Bit on a lower firing/feed rate. Also other benefits like mentioned above (ash rates).

I dont have very good pellets available to me like Okies, Energex, Cubex, Hamers, Etc.. Living in Ohio has us pellet burners limited. I still look for the best deals. So do I burn a "Cheap" pellet. Some would say yes.. But to buy Somersets from Menards at $175 a ton. Thats a Score to me. Presto-Logs are a pretty good pellet (heat wise/my tests) and at $177. I will buy them all day long also.. So buy what you can afford and what your stove likes. Every set-up is different. As are the users needs. I get by 90% of the time on Low with the Quad (1st season with Fahrenheit and Woodstove) for 3 yrs.

Heat matters. Just matters how much you need. And how much you want to burn to get there. I would like to see more Manuf put an "actual" BTU rating on the bags. Maybe one day.
 
I would measure the temp, not just take what they have printed on the bag as far as BTU output.

I have a friend that actually measures the temps of different pellets. Thus far Somersets are by far the best and we can operate all of our stoves at a lower setting using these pellets and thus save money. Somersets around here in Cincinnati are priced competively with the other brands.
 
Cincinnati Kid said:
I would measure the temp, not just take what they have printed on the bag as far as BTU output.

I have a friend that actually measures the temps of different pellets. Thus far Somersets are by far the best and we can operate all of our stoves at a lower setting using these pellets and thus save money. Somersets around here in Cincinnati are priced competively with the other brands.

Definitely the BEST pellet around here. Good, short, hot pellets. . .
 
I suggest the OP conduct his own tests.

There are differences and they aren't always minor.

There are also local pricing differences that further darken the door glass.
 
OK . . . I am a new idiot. Smokey, what does OP mean?
 
I did this one other time, Don't remember the thread or the way I did the figuring. But here goes!

If we knew the BTU of each brand and the price? Sure easy math, Right? If we also knew the exact BTU our house would use per day.

Pellet A) 8500 x 40 = 340,000 per bag @ $6.00/bag or 56667 BTU's/dollar

Pellet B) 8000 x 40 = 320,000 per bag @ $5.50/bag or 58182 BTU's/dollar

"Say" you house needed 200,000 BTU's for one fall/spring heating day

Pellet A cost per day would be $3.59 or 23.53 LBS of fuel.

Pellet B cost per day would be $3.44 or 25.00 LBS of fuel.

Please someone check my math.

But the average home owner can't calc the BTU content of the fuel or What the house would require to heat it. Also as the outside temps get colder heat loss increases. To the point were a small stove could struggle with the lower heat output fuel. A fuel that had more temp/heat output could be very benefical in this case. So if your stove doesn't have the muscle to heat in the extreme cold? You could need a pellet that has the higher BTU output.

Lost of variables to trip things up.
 
Thanks to Smokey for that nice piece of pie. And thanks to J for the explanation that makes sense. I am WAY down on the learning curve and appreciate the info. Absent that kind of information the seemingly minor difference in BTUs didn't appear to add up to much at the end of the day. But I have seen the (fire) light.
 
RKS130 said:
Thanks to Smokey for that nice piece of pie. And thanks to J for the explanation that makes sense. I am WAY down on the learning curve and appreciate the info. Absent that kind of information the seemingly minor difference in BTUs didn't appear to add up to much at the end of the day. But I have seen the (fire) light.

It even gets worse when that cheap pellet requires you to scoop crud out of the stove twice a day and in some cases shut the stove down more often to clean it, then you have to recover your heat loss.

It can be a vicious circle especially if you get what is known as dirt in a bag for pellets.

There is one member who's sig reads something like:

Llife's to short for ... and crappy pellets.
 
DexterDay said:
Cincinnati Kid said:
I would measure the temp, not just take what they have printed on the bag as far as BTU output.

I have a friend that actually measures the temps of different pellets. Thus far Somersets are by far the best and we can operate all of our stoves at a lower setting using these pellets and thus save money. Somersets around here in Cincinnati are priced competively with the other brands.

Definitely the BEST pellet around here. Good, short, hot pellets. . .


Kenis...You sold me on the Somersets (after this weekend I will have 3 ton), and I do like them, but if they're the best around, How come they are on the low end of your stock pile?? I wanted to buy another ton of pro-pellets, but the wife said why pay fifty more dollars a ton...Hard to argue that logic!! What I am trying to say is Thanks for all your help, as long as you're sure the Somerset's are the best! That made a lot of sense as I typed it, But I must admit I am a couple hours into Happy hour at this point of the evening.
 
Eatonpcat said:
DexterDay said:
Cincinnati Kid said:
I would measure the temp, not just take what they have printed on the bag as far as BTU output.

I have a friend that actually measures the temps of different pellets. Thus far Somersets are by far the best and we can operate all of our stoves at a lower setting using these pellets and thus save money. Somersets around here in Cincinnati are priced competively with the other brands.

Definitely the BEST pellet around here. Good, short, hot pellets. . .


Kenis...You sold me on the Somersets (after this weekend I will have 3 ton), and I do like them, but if they're the best around, How come they are on the low end of your stock pile?? I wanted to buy another ton of pro-pellets, but the wife said why pay fifty more dollars a ton...Hard to argue that logic!! What I am trying to say is Thanks for all your help, as long as you're sure the Somerset's are the best! That made a lot of sense as I typed it, But I must admit I am a couple hours into Happy hour at this point of the evening.

When I waz "buying" they were not $175 a ton. Again. I am in it to save money. The Presto Logs were $177 and only a couple degrees cooler than the Somersets. If it were up to me, I would have 10 ton of Somersets downstairs. But the Wife had to put a stop to it. All 9 ton came within 3 months. Feb to April of Last Season... I have been buying a few bags of this and that. But NO Major purchases. Somersets are my favorite and if at the end of this season are $175. I will have at least 4-7 ton of them.

Hope that clarifies. I buy when they are cheap. When I wanted to buy them. They were not. There was LOTS of speculation that pellets were going to go through the roof this season. So I stocked up early. I had a few ton of Somersets last yr and a ton of Pro Pellet and AWF. This year I got what I could for as little as possible. Have at least 2 yrs, if not 3 (now with the woodstove) yrs worth. But always looking.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
RKS130 said:
Thanks to Smokey for that nice piece of pie. And thanks to J for the explanation that makes sense. I am WAY down on the learning curve and appreciate the info. Absent that kind of information the seemingly minor difference in BTUs didn't appear to add up to much at the end of the day. But I have seen the (fire) light.

It even gets worse when that cheap pellet requires you to scoop crud out of the stove twice a day and in some cases shut the stove down more often to clean it, then you have to recover your heat loss.

It can be a vicious circle especially if you get what is known as dirt in a bag for pellets.

There is one member who's sig reads something like:

Llife's to short for ... and crappy pellets.

Thanks Bear, Forgot to add the crud factor. Down time that could also work against you and the war on the heat loss.
 
I bought Pricey pellets this year lot better and not much ash. $5.35 a bag instead of $4.00 for the pine pellets. I would have to clean the ash out just every bag and they had a lot of fines. Eureka pellets burn with very little ash will see how the vent pipe is after 50 bags. I am hoping they will all burn good through the winter.
 
I'm thinking the hotter AWF pellets I burned last year burned out my combustion motor....just a hunch. So, if you had to replace the motor more often when burning hot pellets that could screw up the savings
 
generally I've been the happiest with Douglas Fir pellets because they burn hot and have less ash... easier clean-up and I can run a longer time between cleanings.

That being said the SIH hardwoods I have been burning last season and up until today are pretty good... about $30/ton cheaper. Not as good as the Doug Firs but still good...

When I'm done with the SIH's it will be all doug fir the rest of the season.
 
RKS130 said:
But, I do have one question. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the heat output
of various pellet brands (I am ignorant for this purpose of the issues like ash buildup, etc.).
But has anyone done the real math? . . . and if they did, does it matter?


Short to the point answer: None of it matters. The only thing that matters
in the end is finding what works best in YOUR stove and then finding
those pellets for a price you're comfortable with. That is the only
"real math" that counts in this game.
 
Xena said:
RKS130 said:
But, I do have one question. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the heat output
of various pellet brands (I am ignorant for this purpose of the issues like ash buildup, etc.).
But has anyone done the real math? . . . and if they did, does it matter?


Short to the point answer: None of it matters. The only thing that matters
in the end is finding what works best in YOUR stove and then finding
those pellets for a price you're comfortable with. That is the only
"real math" that counts in this game.

Well said... v-v-v This is from my 1st post in this thread (post #3) v-v-v

"This is all dependent on MANY factors (stove, pellet, exchanger, measuring device, measuring device placement, feed rate, to name a few) I do it just to have my own metrics. This tells me whats good in MY stove and because I heat MY house. Sharing these #‘s may help. It may not."

Do it for my own purposes. Sharing #'s is sharing #'s. I dont burn quality pellets (in some peoples eyes) because they are not available to me. Even if they were, with the prices I see ($250-$320 ton) I dont believe I would buy them anyway. Stove stays pretty clean with most pellets I have and I have my 2 brands that do very well for me. Getting them at $175 (Somersets) and $177 (Presto-logs) helps a lot too. 4 ton for about $700 a yr... Like it... No... Love it!!!

Test whats best for you. Some pellets seem to burn good in any stove. Some not so much.. Takes time. I have said it many times before. I wish I had found this site when I 1st started burning pellets. Learned a lot from my mistakes (sometimes the best way) but could have learned some hard ones by others.

Every application is different. Everyones needs are different. But the one thing we all share is the enjoyment of the heat from our pellet stoves and the money they save us. Its one of the best hobbies I have. Keeps me out of trouble.
 
j-takeman said:
I did this one other time, Don't remember the thread or the way I did the figuring. But here goes!

If we knew the BTU of each brand and the price? Sure easy math, Right? If we also knew the exact BTU our house would use per day.

Pellet A) 8500 x 40 = 340,000 per bag @ $6.00/bag or 56667 BTU's/dollar

Pellet B) 8000 x 40 = 320,000 per bag @ $5.50/bag or 58182 BTU's/dollar

"Say" you house needed 200,000 BTU's for one fall/spring heating day

Pellet A cost per day would be $3.59 or 23.53 LBS of fuel.

Pellet B cost per day would be $3.44 or 25.00 LBS of fuel.

Please someone check my math.

But the average home owner can't calc the BTU content of the fuel or What the house would require to heat it. Also as the outside temps get colder heat loss increases. To the point were a small stove could struggle with the lower heat output fuel. A fuel that had more temp/heat output could be very benefical in this case. So if your stove doesn't have the muscle to heat in the extreme cold? You could need a pellet that has the higher BTU output.

Lost of variables to trip things up.


I think J has the most important point in the last section. If you install the stove (aka the space heater) in one room (as they are intended to be), than more often than not you have overcapacity to heat the single room, so for such user any pellet will do and the convenience factor comes in (ash, scrubbing the glass ect).

If you fall into the category of 'my house is my space' and the stove is supposed to heat it all, you mostly end up with undercapacity to heat your home. Meaning, your stove can not feed enough pellets per time into the pot to burn to heat your whole house. More ond more people fall into this category beacsue we want to save some bucks (myself included) and in that case you do care about the BTU content, because the only way to increase your heat output is to increase the amount of material falling into the burn pot. At maximu delivery rate of your stove that can only be increased by either smaller pellets, since the auger really delivers volume not mass, or ....higher quality/BTU pellets.

As far as ash, clinker and soot goes...if you use a vacuum the ash really is irrelevant, clinkers are annoying but nothing a screwdriver and hammer can not take care off and soot washes off the glass fairly sinple with household (cheap) glass cleaner - no reason to go overboard here either IMO.

Through in the fact of psychology that we all want to make a good deal and look smart - mix a little bit a 'pet peeve' in and you have the amount of pellet threads on this forum (mine included) and/or the conclusion that everyone should test their own pellets to find the right answer.
 
DexterDay said:
Xena said:
RKS130 said:
But, I do have one question. There seems to be a lot of discussion about the heat output
of various pellet brands (I am ignorant for this purpose of the issues like ash buildup, etc.).
But has anyone done the real math? . . . and if they did, does it matter?


Short to the point answer: None of it matters. The only thing that matters
in the end is finding what works best in YOUR stove and then finding
those pellets for a price you're comfortable with. That is the only
"real math" that counts in this game.

Well said... v-v-v This is from my 1st post in this thread (post #3) v-v-v

"This is all dependent on MANY factors (stove, pellet, exchanger, measuring device, measuring device placement, feed rate, to name a few) I do it just to have my own metrics. This tells me whats good in MY stove and because I heat MY house. Sharing these #‘s may help. It may not."

Do it for my own purposes. Sharing #'s is sharing #'s. I dont burn quality pellets (in some peoples eyes) because they are not available to me. Even if they were, with the prices I see ($250-$320 ton) I dont believe I would buy them anyway. Stove stays pretty clean with most pellets I have and I have my 2 brands that do very well for me. Getting them at $175 (Somersets) and $177 (Presto-logs) helps a lot too. 4 ton for about $700 a yr... Like it... No... Love it!!!

Test whats best for you. Some pellets seem to burn good in any stove. Some not so much.. Takes time. I have said it many times before. I wish I had found this site when I 1st started burning pellets. Learned a lot from my mistakes (sometimes the best way) but could have learned some hard ones by others.

Every application is different. Everyones needs are different. But the one thing we all share is the enjoyment of the heat from our pellet stoves and the money they save us. Its one of the best hobbies I have. Keeps me out of trouble.


Hope you didn't take my questioning your Somerset stash in the wrong way, I appreciate all the help you've given me! Heck, the wife is also hooked on the Somersets, Our house hasn't been warmed into the 70 -75 degree range since we built it in 94!!
 
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