Heat Commander Big Enough??

[chadcj7]

I stepped away from looking at wood-burning furnaces for a while now. I am back in the market. We built our house about 4 years ago, and I had a thermostat and an exhaust pipe already installed. My house has about 2500 sq ft upstairs and about 1600 sq ft downstairs where my kids are. The stairway to the basement is open to the upstairs. I live in the northern KY area where winters are not terrible, but we have an occasional day or two below zero. I am on a heat pump and want this to warm the house consistently when I get below 30.

I'm not worried about the quality of the Heat Commander, but if it will be enough to heat my space. It states that it is meant for 2500 sq ft. I like the Kumma, but where I am at the ROI is much longer. Appreciate anyones thoughts on this

 

[LogCabinFever]

So this is a question that will yield a ton of different answers. My answer is: it might do it, but more details are needed.

If I understand correctly, you’re talking 4100 sqft. That’s a lot. But it may be fine. A lot will depend on how well insulated the house is. Being a newer house, I would think your insulation would be pretty good on your walls and windows. You are also in an area that doesn’t really see cold like the north does. It also depends on the type of wood that you have down there. If it’s good quality hardwood, you’ll get better BTUs.

From reading this:

F

Thread 'New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander'

Nov 4, 2020

It's new furnace day! Our Drolet Heat Commander was just dropped in the driveway by our freight service amd will be slipped into the basement to replace our Tundra I this afternoon.

I have no objective feedback, yet, other than saying that it looks very well built and many of the weak points of the Tundra are clearly addressed with more radiused corners, additional welds, additional firebrick, etc.

Also, a big kudos to Drolet for including both a thermostat and a moisture meter!

The install will happen over the weekend and I'll look forward to reporting the first proper burn.

• FixedGearFlyer
• Replies: 814
• Forum: The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

• 

It seems like the general consensus is that the heat commander will heat more than it’s rated for. I’ve seen another thread about a guy that wanted to heat a 3400 square-foot space and a long time forum member (who also owned a HC) said it could work. Like I said, though, you’d have to give us more details about the finished area that it is heating as well as what fuel you are using.

If it were me, I would look into the Kuuma or the Caddy, because both of those offer 1/2hp blowers as opposed to the 1/3hp blower on the HC. This should yield you higher CFM’s, and therefore greater heating capacity. 4100 sqft may be better handled by an OWB. But there’s guys on here that know far more about this than I do.

Just curious, what is your heat pump rated to go down to? Modern heat pumps still have pretty good efficiency down to zero degrees. Maybe it would be better to update the heat pump?

 

[chadcj7]

So this is a question that will yield a ton of different answers. My answer is: it might do it, but more details are needed.

If I understand correctly, you’re talking 4100 sqft. That’s a lot. But it may be fine. A lot will depend on how well insulated the house is. Being a newer house, I would think your insulation would be pretty good on your walls and windows. You are also in an area that doesn’t really see cold like the north does. It also depends on the type of wood that you have down there. If it’s good quality hardwood, you’ll get better BTUs.

From reading this:

F

Thread 'New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander'

Nov 4, 2020

It's new furnace day! Our Drolet Heat Commander was just dropped in the driveway by our freight service amd will be slipped into the basement to replace our Tundra I this afternoon.

I have no objective feedback, yet, other than saying that it looks very well built and many of the weak points of the Tundra are clearly addressed with more radiused corners, additional welds, additional firebrick, etc.

Also, a big kudos to Drolet for including both a thermostat and a moisture meter!

The install will happen over the weekend and I'll look forward to reporting the first proper burn.

• FixedGearFlyer
• Replies: 814
• Forum: The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

• 

It seems like the general consensus is that the heat commander will heat more than it’s rated for. I’ve seen another thread about a guy that wanted to heat a 3400 square-foot space and a long time forum member (who also owned a HC) said it could work. Like I said, though, you’d have to give us more details about the finished area that it is heating as well as what fuel you are using.

If it were me, I would look into the Kuuma or the Caddy, because both of those offer 1/2hp blowers as opposed to the 1/3hp blower on the HC. This should yield you higher CFM’s, and therefore greater heating capacity. 4100 sqft may be better handled by an OWB. But there’s guys on here that know far more about this than I do.

Just curious, what is your heat pump rated to go down to? Modern heat pumps still have pretty good efficiency down to zero degrees. Maybe it would be better to update the heat pump?

Thanks for the response.

The basement is all concrete 10 foot foundation that is all under ground and not raised above. Insulation and windows are in very good shape so no issues there. I even have insulated siding on the house as well. The heat pump is very efficient. I have plenty of good hardwoods around here such as osage orange, black locust, walnut, oak, etc.

My heat pump will work down around 0 degrees but more efficient when it is above this though. I have electric as a backup as I did not want to go with propane and put the pipe in for a wood burner as I am on 6.5 acres and have access to wood on my property along with multiple friends that can get we good wood very easily.

What caddy would you recommend as it appears that they are only up to 2500 sq ft as well. I know that the Kumma will work as I have discussed with them, and they are very knowledgeable. I just feel for the short winters that we have, that do not get extremely low, that the Kuuma ROI is not as good.

Let me know if this answered your questions or if you need anything else. The last thing I would want to do is put something in that doesn't help with keeping the house warm when needed

 

[LogCabinFever]

I would say the basement won’t hold much heat. And these newer units don’t radiate as much heat as the older ones did.

Looks like you have some really good hardwoods down there, which is key when you’re dealing with that much ductwork.

The Caddy Advanced w/the 1/2hp ECM motor is what I am referring to. The regular motor offered is the same as the HC, which is 1/3hp. Off the top of my head I’d say that has the higher capacity to heat. I think the stated 2500 sqft is based off of the regular motor and is a ballpark figure. Maybe call SBI/PSG and explain your home and environment situation and see what they think?

Kuuma is certainly nice but I understand the ROI argument. It’s at least $3k minimum more than the other furnaces.

 

[sloeffle]

I've lived in both SE and SW Ohio for a number of years so I'm pretty familiar with the climate down there. If you've built a tight house, I wouldn't spend the money on a wood furnace. I don't think you'll ever get your money back, even with the HC. The chainsaws, gas, oil, chains, splitter etc and your time are not free. If you are looking at it from a financial perspective then those should all be calculated in your ROI.

If you are looking to be more energy independent ( that's why I burn wood myself ) a month or two a year then I think that's a little different.

 

[Micdrew]

I've lived in both SE and SW Ohio for a number of years so I'm pretty familiar with the climate down there. If you've built a tight house, I wouldn't spend the money on a wood furnace. I don't think you'll ever get your money back, even with the HC. The chainsaws, gas, oil, chains, splitter etc and your time are not free. If you are looking at it from a financial perspective then those should all be calculated in your ROI.

If you are looking to be more energy independent ( that's why I burn wood myself ) a month or two a year then I think that's a little different.

I agree 100%. if I had a spot to put a wood stove I would have gone that route instead of dropping the cash on the kuuma but the basement was the only place that made sense. I love the face that I don’t have to worry about fuel prices but the kuuma is definitely overkill for Maryland winters.

 

[EbS-P]

I would rather not push a wood burner as hard so it will have a longer life. From the feedback in the forum Kuma is top notch. But.. and hear me out. You are probably only going to need more heat 7 days a year. How will be installed? Can you run the electric back and the wood furnace? Right there you have exiting infrastructure covering any short comings of the commander.

Personally I’d rather put off the purchase for a year save up and work extra to get the Kuma.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm saying 99% of the time the HC will do the job...so what if the HP has to "top off" the heat demand required once in while (but I bet that ends up being a pretty darn rare occurrence!)
And the Caddy and the HC are pretty much the same furnace (more or less) and will heat pretty much the same space.
These guys have a great sale on right now...free shipping too. This is basically the SBI factory store.

https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/us/en/heaters/wood-furnaces/

 

[trx250r87]

I have been heating my house in Northern WI since the HC was released in the US. My house is a 1723 sq' ranch with an unfinished basement of equal size. Half the house has a cathedral ceiling of 12'. I have no problem keeping the house at 72*F-74*F in any weather and my windows are not great.

Eric

 

[chadcj7]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I would use this more as a secondary heat to the heat pump, mostly when it gets really cold outside. The basement in our house retains heat pretty well. I know there is a lot of work to get the wood and stuff, but I have a really good source of practically free seasoned wood.

I would have this connected to my current system, which is even zoned for upstairs and downstairs, which would help with heat distribution throughout the entire house. After the feedback, though, I feel the Drolet will heat the house when needed and still provide some savings over the Kumma, and that doesn't include the tax benefits.

 

[Citationls]

Not sure if it's too late but I'm not sure the blower setup on the heat commander would be adequate to supply enough air for your hvac system if your house is that big. I would check out how many cfm your current blower is rated for and compare it to the blower on the heat commander. Heat wise I'm sure the heat commander would put off more than enough heat for where you live though. It would just be a matter of weather or not the blower would move enough air to properly distribute the heat.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Not sure if it's too late but I'm not sure the blower setup on the heat commander would be adequate to supply enough air for your hvac system if your house is that big. I would check out how many cfm your current blower is rated for and compare it to the blower on the heat commander. Heat wise I'm sure the heat commander would put off more than enough heat for where you live though. It would just be a matter of weather or not the blower would move enough air to properly distribute the heat.

Fun fact, the HC is set to normally blow at 875 CFM which is Speed 1 on the blower. In talking with the SBI rep, it's common to switch two wires on the connector to put it in Speed 2, if Speed 1 is not enough CFM. I'm not sure what CFM that is and I can't remember which wires to swap. Obviously, call SBI technical support and they'll point you in the right direction. They'll be able to give you a ballpark idea if the house can handle it.

Oh, and Speed 4 is 1900 CFM!! Which is just an emergency heat dump, as far as I know. Again, call SBI.

 

[sloeffle]

If you search in the pinned Tundra / Heatmax thread there's a speed controller that you can add to slow the blower motor down based off of the temperature of the plenum. After a while you will get tired to hearing the blower motor kick off and on when the furnace is at the end of the burn. Maybe their ECM motor does some of that magic now but it was by far the best upgrade I did to my Caddy.

 

[Citationls]

If you search in the pinned Tundra / Heatmax thread there's a speed controller that you can add to slow the blower motor down based off of the temperature of the plenum. After a while you will get tired to hearing the blower motor kick off and on when the furnace is at the end of the burn. Maybe their ECM motor does some of that magic now but it was by far the best upgrade I did to my Caddy.

I've really been wishing my heat commander had this variable blower speed setup. It seems like a waste to not have it able to run at lower speeds. I can't seem to find anyone who has done this mod to a heat commander though. I'm not sure if they are the same as the caddy or vf100 and don't want to risk letting the factory smoke out of any electronics on my heat commander.

 

[brenndatomu]

I can't seem to find anyone who has done this mod to a heat commander though.

I did one...it was really complicated to wire up and while it worked ok, I didn't like it, so it was removed and put back to factory.
It's been a while back now...don't even recall the details of it anymore.

 

[Citationls]

I did one...it was really complicated to wire up and while it worked ok, I didn't like it, so it was removed and put back to factory.
It's been a while back now...don't even recall the details of it anymore.

If it's really complicated to wire i would probably skip it either way. Just out of curiosity though, what didn't you like about it?
My biggest complaint with the oem setup is that the blower only comes on at plenum temps around 180ish if thermostat isn't calling for heat. If the thermostat calls for heat, it will come on at a much lower temp but the computer will also open intake/exhaust dampers to make the fire burn hotter/use more fuel. I would love to have the blower come on at a lower temp so I could utilize the heat from the plenum while the fire is "idling".
I guess I just feel like the furnace is wasting a lot of heat by having the blower only function as a heat dump while the fire is idling. If there was a way the fan could kick on at lower plenum temps I feel like my HC would hardly ever come off idle and I would always have long burn times with more consistent heat output. My guess would be all of the factory settings were necessary to meet epa standards though.

 

[brenndatomu]

Just out of curiosity though, what didn't you like about it?

Well like I said, don't recall much about it now, but I think one of the issues was you had to pick one speed and the HC computer no longer had the option to pick from other speeds if over temp...I think there were other things too...the control board on the HC is a complex piece!

 

[Citationls]

Well like I said, don't recall much about it now, but I think one of the issues was you had to pick one speed and the HC computer no longer had the option to pick from other speeds if over temp...I think there were other things too...the control board on the HC is a complex

Well like I said, don't recall much about it now, but I think one of the issues was you had to pick one speed and the HC computer no longer had the option to pick from other speeds if over temp...I think there were other things too...the control board on the HC is a complex piece!

I've been thinking more about getting the most out of the heat commander efficiency wise. Since the blower comes on around 185? if there is no call for heat, what if I were to keep the plenum temp probe at 190 by removing it from the plenum and wrapping it with a heating element? Or wire something up so the computer thinks it's always at 190?

 

[travis8352]

I believe you can jumper the thermostat terminal and it will think theres always a call for heat and will keep the blower on as long as theres heat available. However then its being run on high all the time

 

[Citationls]

I believe you can jumper the thermostat terminal and it will think theres always a call for heat and will keep the blower on as long as theres heat available. However then its being run on high all the time

I considered that but don't want it to run on high all the time. I'm looking for it to run on low will keeping the blower on more often.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Why not just turn up the thermostat so there’s always a call for heat?

The thing about always having the blower running, is that you’ll be consuming a lot of power. I wish there was just a cruising speed at about half of the CFM when it whets within a couple degrees of the thermostat call temp. I hate the on/off as well, especially when the furnace light is out and the firebox is cooler. Seems pointless and annoying and contradictory to what the programmed settings are. From what I understand, the blower only has three settings, for four speeds:

1. Call for heat - Engages Speed 1 when RTD reads 130F minimum
2. No call for heat - Engages Speed 1 when RTD reads 190F minimum (heat dump)
3. Call & no call for heat - Engages Speed 4 in overtemp mode. This is based on a firebox temp from the thermocouple but not sure what temp that is. Tech rep told me that there’s no risk to damaging the furnace until around 850F, so my guess is somewhere just below that.

From what I gather, Speed 2 is available if you switch 2 wires during install if your CFM demand is higher. Speed 3 appears to never be used.

 

[brenndatomu]

The thing about always having the blower running, is that you’ll be consuming a lot of power

Not really...my Kuuma blower runs almost non stop, power bill goes up maybe $10/mo in winter...these lil PFC type motors are pretty efficient.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Not really...my Kuuma blower runs almost non stop, power bill goes up maybe $10/mo in winter...these lil PFC type motors are pretty efficient.

Maybe that’s the case in Ohio but not here in CT. We have some of the most expensive rates in the country. After supply and delivery and the myriad of fees attached, my current rate is $0.30 per kWh. My actual supply rate is about $0.14 but Eversource is a monopoly in NE, sneaking all sorts of fees in there, making delivery more expensive than supply. So for instance, let’s conservatively say during winter:

330W blower (HC @ 0.2” wc) at say 12hrs runtime for 30 day month at $0.30 = 330x12x30/1000 =$118.8 added.

That’s if the blower is 12hrs per day, which is very conservative. Now is the motor always pulling 330W? Definitely not, but even at half the wattage, it’s not cheap by any means. Just imagine people with electric heat.

 

[brenndatomu]

Maybe that’s the case in Ohio but not here in CT. We have some of the most expensive rates in the country. After supply and delivery and the myriad of fees attached, my current rate is $0.30 per kWh. My actual supply rate is about $0.14 but Eversource is a monopoly in NE, sneaking all sorts of fees in there, making delivery more expensive than supply. So for instance, let’s conservatively say during winter:

330W blower (HC @ 0.2” wc) at say 12hrs runtime for 30 day month at $0.30 = 330x12x30/1000 =$118.8 added.

That’s if the blower is 12hrs per day, which is very conservative. Now is the motor always pulling 330W? Definitely not, but even at half the wattage, it’s not cheap by any means. Just imagine people with electric heat.

Wow...yeah our rate is under $0.12 per, all in...and no, you are likely not pulling 330W, half to 1/3 less in my experience

 

[Citationls]

Thanks for the responses. Figured I wasn't the only one who was bothered by the cycling. I don't want to turn the thermostat up because it will burn at a faster rate. I basically just want to utilize the available heat in the plenum while the fire is idling. I did consider energy costs considering the ridiculous rates in CT. I figured startup uses a lot of electricity for most motors so cycling vs constant run may not work out much different. My blower pulls .38amps when measured with an amp clamp which may not be the most accurate. Figured energy bill has increased about $15 to $20 per month while using the HC in January. I am not 100 percent sure on that though.