Finally got around to changing the plugs on the 3.3 Caravan - way north of 100K miles. Always ran well with no skips and good mileage, so the job kept on getting pushed off in favor of something else. The plugs were so old that lots of rust had formed on the front 3 - more on that later. If you don't have a lift, about the only way to get at the 3 back plugs is to remove the wiper tub - kind of a PITA, but not a tough job. So that went ok, and the 3 back plugs (not much rust) were easily changed out. Moving to the "easy" front plugs, the first came out without any fuss. Then came the middle plug. I saw the rust on the other front plug, but didn't think about it too much - I've had other rusted plugs and nothing bad had ever happened in the past. Well a moderate amount of torque didn't move the middle guy, and so I applied a bit more. I have no idea how much force I was using, but didn't think it was anywhere close to a "career high". Anyway .... SNAP. A quick glance showed the plug completely sheared off - the entire top of the plug was still in the socket. The air left my lungs, and all the blood drained out of my head. I knew this was very bad - I wasn't about to drill the ceramic to make room for an easy-out because that might risk busting through, and sending a pile of shards into the cylinder. And without one of those $10,000 shop manuals, I wouldn't think about tearing apart the engine. So it was probably going to have to be towed, and need some expensive shop work. Then I decided to have a close look at the half plug still in the engine, and as I gently poked the ceramic and electrode, it moved! My first thought - the whole thing must be broken up and small pieces have already dropped into the cylinder. So in my mind it had gone from real bad to much worse. Then I thought maybe it was just a surface chip, and I could just lift it out. Well, unbelievably, when I started slowly lifting the loose ceramic with a blade, the entire guts of the plug came out!. It was completely intact - not even so much as a small chip missing. After vacuuming out the hole in the plug and everything around it, an easy-out made short work of getting out the metal shell of the plug. Once everything was back together, I did one of those pointing things that the baseball players do, and fired it up (hoping that no stray shard of metal had dropped down in). A few hundred miles later, everything still sounds good, so it seems likely that nothing real nasty got down into the cylinder - a very fortunate outcome. Anyone else ever see or hear of anything like this?
Here's one for the Mechanics
- Thread starter willworkforwood
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
My 89 Tbird-SC did the same to me, except I need to pull the head.
Glad it turned out okay for you
Glad it turned out okay for you
Dune
Minister of Fire
I've seen that happen twice. You lucked out, pure and simple. Anti-seize is your friend, the other scenario is flat-out ugly.
North of 60
Minister of Fire
Those 3.3s are wonderful motors. Here is a site for you if any more problems arise. http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/forum.php
I have swiched up to a 2010 and there is a football feild of room around the backside of the motor now.
Cheers.
I have swiched up to a 2010 and there is a football feild of room around the backside of the motor now.
Cheers.
Thanks for the link, North - I try to do what I can myself, and owner DYI info like this is really helpful. And, I do use anti seize when installing but here I was removing the original factory plugs. Have any of the car manufacturers started using anti seize on common maintenance items such as plugs?north of 60 said:
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
velvetfoot said:
Didn't for me - have a second set of heads to put on when money AND time come together.
Aaron
Flatbedford
Minister of Fire
Got lucky.
I probably would have just left the stuck one and changed the others for fear of breaking something.
I probably would have just left the stuck one and changed the others for fear of breaking something.
WES999
Minister of Fire
Consider yourself extremely lucky. When a threaded fastener twists off due to rust, rarely will an EZ out work. Usually people will snap the EZ out off and then have the pleasure of removing a broken piece of hardened steel. :sick:
Soaking in PB blaster and maybe warming up the engine probably would have helped.
I change the plugs about once a year in my Ranger, cheap insurance!
I always use anti seize on the threads.
Soaking in PB blaster and maybe warming up the engine probably would have helped.
I change the plugs about once a year in my Ranger, cheap insurance!
I always use anti seize on the threads.
JustWood
Minister of Fire
Make sure to use the high temp anti seize . I've had problems with the regular in high temp applications practically "welding" stuff together.
A coworker had the same problem on an Explorer, was able to easy-out it. 4.0 v-6
I think the problem here is that basic spark plug design has not been changed to accomodate 100k Mi. tune ups on modern engines. They rust from the outside, sieze, (especially in aluminum head engines), and break at the weakest point when attempting to remove. Some engines need to be overnight cold to safely remove plugs, consult the internet or shop manual.
A soak with penetrating oil may help but it needs to get past the spark plug gasket or seat to get to the threads and that isn't too likely unless the plug is already loose.
Anti sieze helps, some plugs are plated to reduce corrosion (A-C and some platinum types), and the correct torque is important, but the best thing is to use a common sense approach to vehicle maintenance and change or check all spark plugs at a reasonable 40k miles or less,.
I think the problem here is that basic spark plug design has not been changed to accomodate 100k Mi. tune ups on modern engines. They rust from the outside, sieze, (especially in aluminum head engines), and break at the weakest point when attempting to remove. Some engines need to be overnight cold to safely remove plugs, consult the internet or shop manual.
A soak with penetrating oil may help but it needs to get past the spark plug gasket or seat to get to the threads and that isn't too likely unless the plug is already loose.
Anti sieze helps, some plugs are plated to reduce corrosion (A-C and some platinum types), and the correct torque is important, but the best thing is to use a common sense approach to vehicle maintenance and change or check all spark plugs at a reasonable 40k miles or less,.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
Dune
Minister of Fire
Wow, I am surprised people from all over the country have this problem. I figured it was because of the salt in the air arround here.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
I think this hits the nail right on the head. I'm really contentious about "important" vehicle maintenance - tires, brakes, oil. I've crawled around under cars in the middle of January changing oil in an unheated garage, so I'm not a slacker about this stuff. But, I never personally had any awareness of plugs breaking (except over-torqueing new ones), so that wasn't on my hit list. And modern plugs are built to last (be functional) a long time - the factory plugs I removed were still in decent shape, and the car still had been running very well. But the problem is the rust working away at the plug over time. I think if more of these horror stories get on the web, it will help this information become common knowledge.kettensäge said:
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I was looking all over the ford for spark plugs. The diesel must not have them.
You guys are worrying me. The wife's 2001 GMC with the 5.3 V8 has about 130,000 miles on it with the original AC Delco platinum plugs. They cost about 7$ each to replace so I have been putting it off a little bit. I use OEM brand plugs, just do. We don't have much salt on our roads but I am worried about these buggers snapping off now.
So is it best to remvoe plugs on a cold cold engine? Slow steady pressure or kind of jerky pops to the ratchet? Is there any danger of buggering the threads on removal or is the only risk the snapping of the plug? 60$ for plugs, sheesh.
You guys are worrying me. The wife's 2001 GMC with the 5.3 V8 has about 130,000 miles on it with the original AC Delco platinum plugs. They cost about 7$ each to replace so I have been putting it off a little bit. I use OEM brand plugs, just do. We don't have much salt on our roads but I am worried about these buggers snapping off now.
So is it best to remvoe plugs on a cold cold engine? Slow steady pressure or kind of jerky pops to the ratchet? Is there any danger of buggering the threads on removal or is the only risk the snapping of the plug? 60$ for plugs, sheesh.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
Highbeam said:
Just breaking it. The snap on easy outs look like a soild backwards cork screw. Hope you dont need a set but much cheaper than a new head lol
You might be ok. A-C plugs have the corrosion protection. Engine must be overnight cold.
Use slow steady pressure, If the plug threads are seized to the head (not just corroded) it will bugger them, they will turn but need considerable force the whole time you are unthreading them, but this is not likely.
If they break loose but are hard to turn, spray Blaster or other penetrating oil around the threads.
Working them back and forth also helps once they are loose, if they are hard to turn.
Use aluminum based Antiseize on the threads, (you don't need much) and silicone grease in the spark plug boots while reassembling.
Do Not use Copper antisieze
Use slow steady pressure, If the plug threads are seized to the head (not just corroded) it will bugger them, they will turn but need considerable force the whole time you are unthreading them, but this is not likely.
If they break loose but are hard to turn, spray Blaster or other penetrating oil around the threads.
Working them back and forth also helps once they are loose, if they are hard to turn.
Use aluminum based Antiseize on the threads, (you don't need much) and silicone grease in the spark plug boots while reassembling.
Do Not use Copper antisieze
North of 60
Minister of Fire
Highbeam said:
You are upset about $60 for plugs after 130,000 miles. Older ignition systems needed more frequent changes that would of added up higher than that. Your gonna have a heart attack when its time on your Ridiculous F-tree fitty diesel pickup
to work on your fuel and glow plug system. (a given by the way) A new Ford Fiesta will be cheaper. :lol:
I have 179,xxx on my spark plugs. I have a 99 F-150 with the 5.4 in it. Try changing the 4 plugs under the dash. That cab over design is junk in my opion, you can't access anything on that motor. When I hit 200,000 she's going down the road. Last ford I will ever own, I can tell you that much.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
north of 60 said:
You're right, I've gotten more than 60$ worth of life out of the old plugs. I could buy cheap plugs, non OEM, and it would cost half as much. If I am upset over anything, it is the rising cost of plugs.
The glow plug system is very cheap to work on and it has been fine for 153000 miles, I am aware of what to look for when that system fails. The injectors, yes, they are expensive but at least you get something for that. The little nozzles on the cummins are much cheaper but are also much much simpler.
I am picking up a 3 ton roller this afternoon with my pickup. Can't do that with a Fiesta.
- Status
