How pellets are tested by PFI
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jtakeman
Minister of Fire
AFAIK, PFI doesn't handle the testing, They just set the standards and handle the details.
There is a list of labs that PFI excepts for testing. Check the link" PFI is in limbo land with the EPA on what the new stardards will be!
http://pelletheat.org/pfi-standards/what-are-the-pfi-standards/
This link has some info:
http://pelletheat.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Gil-Wood-EPA.pdf
www.twinportstesting.com
There is a list of labs that PFI excepts for testing. Check the link" PFI is in limbo land with the EPA on what the new stardards will be!
http://pelletheat.org/pfi-standards/what-are-the-pfi-standards/
This link has some info:
http://pelletheat.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Gil-Wood-EPA.pdf
www.twinportstesting.com
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BLIMP said:
I believe they use the calorie testing to determain overall btu's. 252 calorie's equals 1 BTU.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-btu.htm
http://www.energyeducation.tx.gov/pdf/313_inv.pdf
http://www.rprogress.org/energyfootprint/basics/?id=2d
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/calorie
http://www.kingsborough.edu/academicDepartments/PHYSCI/science25/labs/Exp_4-Specific Heat1.pdf
Not sure why this was in the suggestion box. Open a thread on the topic in the Pellet Forum and have commentary.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
Tried Gil WOod today & left a message. Have also posted here requests for PFI or inhouse testing procedures which determine the btu of the pellets & getting no info. Must be a company secret? LOLOLO....IF I MANUFACTURED PELLETS & AN INDEPENDENT LAB WAS EVALUATING THEM, I'D SURELY BE FAMILIARIZED WITH THE PROCEDURE SO TO VERIFY AT MY END= I AINT GETTING ANY FACTUAL RESPONSES SO I WONDER WHY.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BLIMP said:
Here you go again yelling at us here and it has nothing to do with us poor folk. We here just buy them and burn them just like you do. You need to go yell at the peoples that made said pellet that has made BLIMP mad!
My biggest grip has always been that the manufacturers sent the sample in and there was no verification that was what I was getting when I bought said pellet. Now you know why "me test" and trust no one. I have no squabble with PFI. I just feel someone needs to police the manufacturer's a bit more. Pook taught me to trust NO ONE but myself! ;-)
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BLIMP said:
I wanna be rich, But I just a poor old pellet burner. I hope you get your answers(quickly), But then again will you except what they tell you??? I thinx I kinda doubt it! Good luck!
I thinx they test in house just like I test in house! Burn them and measure whats worth measuring.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BLIMP said:
So they blow the calories out of them there pellets and collect them to measure them??? I will have to google that one("bomb calorimeter")!
Now "who" can donate 25K so I can test the BTU value for my fellow forum members???? I want a "bomb calorimeter" too!
Like I said I kinda thinx you wouldn't except there answer. With the caloric test(water and beaker way) Wouldn't the weather be equalized? You are measuring room temp water then measuring how much its raised to determine the calories. Your just measuring the actual rise in temp. Plus I highly doubt the weather actually varies the caloric value all that much. Kind like your all wood has the "SAME" BTU value. So close it might not make much of a difference or would you actually be able to measure the difference?
Face it, If you can't trust the lab that has tested the majority of said pellets. Who are you going to trust then??? Don't look at me, You already said you don't like my test results. Maybe you have to start testing your own then!
Come join the fellow forum testers??? :cheese: We will let you measure the calories for us
:lol:
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
Well here is the wiki page on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimeter
This could be fabricated if you were a techie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimeter
This could be fabricated if you were a techie.
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Twinports chemist said= pellets are crushed & recompressed prior to testing. your testing ,i thnik, ignored density
so i questioned the validity of the results... ash & humidity content do make a diffference in btu content, age of sawdust doesnt- to a reasonable degree i'd think .
Weather conditions do affect results & this is why they spend $25k instead of burning in a pellet stove to do the certified pellet lab evaluations
so i questioned the validity of the results... ash & humidity content do make a diffference in btu content, age of sawdust doesnt- to a reasonable degree i'd think .
Weather conditions do affect results & this is why they spend $25k instead of burning in a pellet stove to do the certified pellet lab evaluations
smwilliamson
The Stove Guy
Weather conditions would make a difference, such as high pressure and low pressure; the same as altitude will make a difference. It all has to do with oxygen levels. No fire without oxygen.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
j-takeman said:
BLIMP said:
I know that weather would effect when burning in a stove somewhat(don't have a clue on how to compensate for it though)! I meant when doing the caloric testing. You are only measuring the temp rise or how much it is risen by the burned calories. That window is going to be very small. Probably why Twinports isn't comping for it. But then again it could be because its a lab and most likely they are atmospherically controlled.
I am done you win! I personally don't think any ones answers will satisfy your needs. Well maybe Pook if he where still here with us. You 2 are like birds from the same flock!
On my testing, Maybe you should do a test for us to show how to properly test? I will use your testing as a guide to follow. If I see no test from you I will continue to do what I have been doing. Just ignore me and I will do the same for you! :sick: :sick: :sick:
TP chemist also said they tried to get Pmanufacturers to buy their own bomb calorimeters if only to standardize their results from batch to batch. Corinth told me they test every 3months thru TP but do inhouse testing for ash content only for different batches i think. I'm not saying your tests have no validity but just want u to be aware of different factors that affect your method.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
BLIMP said:
Oh my, Thinx I's am going to pass out!
In what way were they valid and how can I improve? Yes I plan on checking density. I will give actual weight of 1 cubic foot area holds. I may also by a moisture meater, But it might not happen! Adjusting for the weather isn't going to happen, Because I wouldn't know how to compensate. I suppose I could order a minny weather station and record start stats. But I think it would just complicate things. Below are things that weather can't factor against. Maybe I will just measure these????
1.) Density
2.) Amount of fines
3.) Ash volume and weight.
4.) pellet size-(Dia and length)
Most of the Pmanufactorers probably don't want to spend the money on a minny lab. Its probably cheaper for them in the long run to just send samples in for testing.
If the EPA's new standards go thru and we actually see them police the mills. My testing would probably be of no use as the new PFI label on the bag should actually be what's in the bag. I will bow out gracefully!(and the crowd cheers!)
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
I thinx's with the meter you need to pulverize the pellets in to dust or just measure a long pellet. What you thinx's???
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