Inside VS-Outside Pipe Run. Advantages - Disadvantages.

[jdempsey]

Will be running the pipe for my basement install soon. I am planning on going straight thru the wall for a corner install and running the pipe on the outside of the basements block wall. Just looks alot cleaner.

So whats the advantage of running the pipe up the inside basement finished wall and going straight out at the top?
What do most of the forum members here prefer?

 

[DexterDay]

Would be better off, buying as much pipe as you need and No more.

For instance.. Englander recommends a Rise in the Flue. If you must go up 4' vertical on the inside then a 90*, then 2-3 ft of horizontal. It will be MUCH Cheaper than say going straight up through your basement floor and out or even worse yet, through your basement floor and your main living floor (Assuming you have a Ranch w/ a basement).

To keep it as economical as possible. Buy only as much as you need. But be sure to follow Englanders Instructions for the install. It needs at least 3' of Rise (Vertical Run). But being in the basement, you should have much more than that.. If you go over the recommended EVL for 3" pipe, (15' EVL). Then step up to 4". Another thing that will make it more costly.

How To Measure EVL. . . Clean-out T or 90* = 5 ft of Pipe, 45* = 2.5 ft, 1 ft Vertical = 1/2 ft of pipe, 1 ft Horizontal = 1 ft of pipe. Add up how much flue you will use.
(Example: Stove adapter to 1 ft Horiz (1 ft), to clean-out T (5 ft), to 5 ft of Vert (2.5 ft), to 90* (5 ft), to 3 ft of Horz (3 ft) = 16.5 EVL. Anything over an EVL of 15' needs 4" Flue.

You have this guy a little jealous. I have been wanting to Sell/Trade my Quadrafire for an Englander 10-CPM (Or 2 other Multi's). Was hoping to get it done this year. But looks like its going to be next Summer. The new Woodstove should keep me busy.

imacman Loves his CPM... That thing is a BEAST..... Will chew through anything and can go FOREVER between cleanings.

Where are you located in Kentucky. I own some property in Elliot County (Middle Fork). Also what brands of Pellets do you have locally??

Good luck and I cant wait for the Pics. Pics or it never happened.

 

[jdempsey]

Hello. I live in Mt.sterling. Im just a couple counties over. I have several friends living in elliot county.

One other question. If one was to need more pipe over 15 ft EVL for a 3 inch diameter pipe can i extend it beyond that using an adapter to convert 3 to 4 inch.
or would you have to run 4 inch the whole run of the pipe?

As far as pellets. None of the stores have any yet. I was in tractor supply in morehead over the weekend, seems they carry somerset, which i know gets pretty good reviews from all that have used them.
I have a TSC, Lowes and southern states here. Also a local biz that sells fireplace items and i think he also sells pelets but i cant get them to return my calls. All the stores think they will have them by the first of September.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hello. I live in Mt.sterling. Im just a couple counties over. I have several friends living in elliot county.

One other question. If one was to need more pipe over 15 ft EVL for a 3 inch diameter pipe can i extend it beyond that using an adapter to convert 3 to 4 inch.
or would you have to run 4 inch the whole run of the pipe?

As far as pellets. None of the stores have any yet. I was in tractor supply in morehead over the weekend, seems they carry somerset, which i know gets pretty good reviews from all that have used them.
I have a TSC, Lowes and southern states here. Also a local biz that sells fireplace items and i think he also sells pelets but i cant get them to return my calls. All the stores think they will have them by the first of September.

You should never add a 3 to 4 adapter and extend your already over length run.

The only place that a 3 to 4 adapter should be used is at the stove, this can be done using a 3 to 4 adapter or a 3 to 4 tee.

 

[FyreBug]

Good rules of thumbs when installing venting for Pellets stoves:

1) If you can afford it go 4" even if you are ok on EVL. 3" = good, 4" = Better. Remember this is a permanent installation, dont cheap out!

2) Most manuals wont give this information but never terminate on a horizontal. That is, if you run your venting all inside (say 10 ft for ex) then elbow out through the wall with 2-3 ft horizontal and terminate with a cap. Better to then add another 4 ft vertical on the outside. The reason is any elbow and horizontal is a restriction. In case of power outage the purpose of the venting is to have enough draft to eliminate any smoke in the house.

If you follow these 2 rules of thumb the prospect of having venting issues are just about eliminated.

 

[DexterDay]

Somersets are a Great Pellet. They can be had around here at Menards for $199/ton or $175/ton on sale. Prob one of the Best Pellets for the money. As Smokey stated and Fyrebug added, 4" all the way. You could get by w/ the 3". But 4" is better. Pellet stoves have a forced exhaust, but that is mainly due to the needed air that is pulled through the burn pot for combustion. Pellet Stoves need draft like a Woodstove as well. Especially when you are dealing with an extended run of pipe. Englanders all recommend a rise in the Flue. This is for the 2 reasons that Fyrebug stated. If in fact you do lose power, you don't need that smoke coming in your house. Another thing that is recommended on Englanders, are an OAK. This too will help with any smoke issues, along with getting the most effiency out of your stove. By not using an OAK, your stove will pull cold air through every leaky spot in your home (Doors, Windows,Electrical outlets Etc).
When we go down to Ky for Rifle season, we normally make a trip to Morehead, seeing how Elliot Co, is a "Dry" County and we never bring enough "Provisions".

You got a Great stove and can get a Great Pellet for it (Somersets). You have been for-warned. Pellet burning is addictive. In a Bad way. I thought it would wear off after a year or so. Not the case. Got worse. Especially after finding this Forum... 9 tons and adding to the bunker. Smokey has many more than I, but if I find another good deal, I will not hesitate to grab 3-6 more ton.
Congrats. Can't wait to see it hooked up and burning.

 

[sb81]

Hmm, rule 2 sounds like it completely rules out in dwelling vertical pipe runs, because it seems obviously you are not going to add a 90 degree elbow just to make sure you terminate on a vertical.

I'm going to have to have three feet of vertical rise inside and then an elbow/horizontal run through the wall and then terminate. Adding another elbow and vertical run after sounds counter productive.

I'm a complete novice though, but first time I have heard this, and Englander said this method will be fine.

 

[sinnian]

Hmm, rule 2 sounds like it completely rules out in dwelling vertical pipe runs, because it seems obviously you are not going to add a 90 degree elbow just to make sure you terminate on a vertical.

I'm going to have to have three feet of vertical rise inside and then an elbow/horizontal run through the wall and then terminate. Adding another elbow and vertical run after sounds counter productive.

I'm a complete novice though, but first time I have heard this, and Englander said this method will be fine.

You should have at least another 4' vertical rise after the elbow to help eliminate back draft / wind ~ IMHO.

 

[FyreBug]

When we go down to Ky for Rifle season, we normally make a trip to Morehead, seeing how Elliot Co, is a "Dry" County and we never bring enough "Provisions".

Reminds me of a trip to the wilds of Northern Labrador. We lost our corkscrew and bottle opener and had nothing to subside on but food & water. It was horrible! Oh the humanity!

 

[Delta-T]

When we go down to Ky for Rifle season, we normally make a trip to Morehead, seeing how Elliot Co, is a "Dry" County and we never bring enough "Provisions".

Reminds me of a trip to the wilds of Northern Labrador. We lost our corkscrew and bottle opener and had nothing to subside on but food & water. It was horrible! Oh the humanity!

egads, that is horrible. you're lucky to be here telling us this story at all.....I'll drink to you sir.

 

[sinnian]

When we go down to Ky for Rifle season, we normally make a trip to Morehead, seeing how Elliot Co, is a "Dry" County and we never bring enough "Provisions".

Reminds me of a trip to the wilds of Northern Labrador. We lost our corkscrew and bottle opener and had nothing to subside on but food & water. It was horrible! Oh the humanity!

Pffftttt..... Where there is a WILL there is a WAY :coolgrin:

 

[sb81]

Hmm, rule 2 sounds like it completely rules out in dwelling vertical pipe runs, because it seems obviously you are not going to add a 90 degree elbow just to make sure you terminate on a vertical.

I'm going to have to have three feet of vertical rise inside and then an elbow/horizontal run through the wall and then terminate. Adding another elbow and vertical run after sounds counter productive.

I'm a complete novice though, but first time I have heard this, and Englander said this method will be fine.

You should have at least another 4' vertical rise after the elbow to help eliminate back draft / wind ~ IMHO.

At that point, I think I would need about another 300 worth of pipe in addition to having to upgrade all pipe to 4 inch. Would be very interesting to see the physics behind that. Again, I'm a complete novice and appreciate everyone's input, but seems like it is easier for the stove to vent directly into the atmosphere after the horizontal run, as opposed to throwing an additional restrictive 90 degree elbow on it followed by an additional four feet of pipe.

 

[sinnian]

Hmm, rule 2 sounds like it completely rules out in dwelling vertical pipe runs, because it seems obviously you are not going to add a 90 degree elbow just to make sure you terminate on a vertical.

I'm going to have to have three feet of vertical rise inside and then an elbow/horizontal run through the wall and then terminate. Adding another elbow and vertical run after sounds counter productive.

I'm a complete novice though, but first time I have heard this, and Englander said this method will be fine.

You should have at least another 4' vertical rise after the elbow to help eliminate back draft / wind ~ IMHO.

At that point, I think I would need about another 300 worth of pipe in addition to having to upgrade all pipe to 4 inch. Would be very interesting to see the physics behind that. Again, I'm a complete novice and appreciate everyone's input, but seems like it is easier for the stove to vent directly into the atmosphere after the horizontal run, as opposed to throwing an additional restrictive 90 degree elbow on it followed by an additional four feet of pipe.

It is to ensure there is enough draft to pull the smoke out, especially in case of power failure. As well as, to prevent a down draft from wind. It will work your way, and you "may" never have a problem.

Think of the smoke like water, unless forced otherwise, it will seek the path of less resistance. Your stove is not as sealed "air tight" as you think it is, and the smoke has to go somewhere when you have a power failure.

 

[FyreBug]

Hmm, rule 2 sounds like it completely rules out in dwelling vertical pipe runs, because it seems obviously you are not going to add a 90 degree elbow just to make sure you terminate on a vertical.

I'm going to have to have three feet of vertical rise inside and then an elbow/horizontal run through the wall and then terminate. Adding another elbow and vertical run after sounds counter productive.

I'm a complete novice though, but first time I have heard this, and Englander said this method will be fine.

You should have at least another 4' vertical rise after the elbow to help eliminate back draft / wind ~ IMHO.

At that point, I think I would need about another 300 worth of pipe in addition to having to upgrade all pipe to 4 inch. Would be very interesting to see the physics behind that. Again, I'm a complete novice and appreciate everyone's input, but seems like it is easier for the stove to vent directly into the atmosphere after the horizontal run, as opposed to throwing an additional restrictive 90 degree elbow on it followed by an additional four feet of pipe.

The physics is called 'draft'. You have two issues here:

1) Most exhaust blowers are relatively small. They have to work hard to exhaust fumes. Imagine having to blow through a straw for an hour straight - You'll get dizzy. Then blow for an hour into a 2" pipe... The principle is the same and it's called 'restrictions'. Your unit will work a lot less hard with a 4" pipe. You will very likely have less issues on windy days, when your pipe gets dirty, overheat buildup etc... It is a lot more forgiving and likely will use less parts over the long run.

2) The power goes out. Where does the smoke goes? If not vented properly most likely the path of least resistance - inside your house. You enjoy the smell of smoke lingering in your drapes & furniture? Your wife will not. Trust me, nothing makes more smoke than smouldering pellets.

Add the 4 Ft outside will guarantee the laws of physics will be obeyed. In this case the Venturi effect for draft will make it easier for the smoke to get out.

#1 rule for Pellet Stoves. Venting - Don't cheap out - It's a permanent install!

 

[FyreBug]

When we go down to Ky for Rifle season, we normally make a trip to Morehead, seeing how Elliot Co, is a "Dry" County and we never bring enough "Provisions".

Reminds me of a trip to the wilds of Northern Labrador. We lost our corkscrew and bottle opener and had nothing to subside on but food & water. It was horrible! Oh the humanity!

egads, that is horrible. you're lucky to be here telling us this story at all.....I'll drink to you sir.

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I am recuperating well with a full re-hydration regimen! However, the damage done to my body is permanent, it looks like I may need to keep up the medication for the rest of my life