Is there a good overall guide that provides the basic pros and cons of cast iron versus steel plate stoves/inserts, EPA versus non-EPA ones, cat versus non-cat, clay flues versus SS liners versus double walled versus insulated, etc.? Are there any that provide general caveats such as double doors versus single, the inability to use wetter wood in EPA stoves, etc.? Are there any websites that as impartially as possible review stoves and inserts?
Is there a good overall guide?
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Hi and welcome imo there is no such thing as a perfect stove ...it all depends on your personal preference. Your either burning wood for ambiance or to save money. Wood is the crucial ingredient to all the stoves you mention and that's more complicated than most would think. And another thing all those stoves burn well it's the chimney's that do the heavy lifting...how's your chimney.
We've burned for 30 years with 4 different stoves. Right now, like most posters, I'd recommend the stove I'm burning in now...cause I've figured it out and am comfortable with it. OK maybe I'd get the next size bigger.
Mega thumbs up to EPA tech...the stoves burn less wood and smoke super way less than older stoves.
As far as CAT stoves go I've heard good things about them and would concede they are the superior appliance. But they're not for us cause we're inclined to get distracted or fall asleep in the stove parlor. CAT stoves need additional attention after loading but they burn way longer. We like the fire and forget plate steel stoves cause there's less dicking around with them.
Cast iron...meh.
We've burned for 30 years with 4 different stoves. Right now, like most posters, I'd recommend the stove I'm burning in now...cause I've figured it out and am comfortable with it. OK maybe I'd get the next size bigger.
Mega thumbs up to EPA tech...the stoves burn less wood and smoke super way less than older stoves.
As far as CAT stoves go I've heard good things about them and would concede they are the superior appliance. But they're not for us cause we're inclined to get distracted or fall asleep in the stove parlor. CAT stoves need additional attention after loading but they burn way longer. We like the fire and forget plate steel stoves cause there's less dicking around with them.
Cast iron...meh.
Hearth.com Do some searching and you will find many discussions and info on most all your concerns. The amount of knowledge available is incredible (for the most part anyway).
I was thinking of a consolidated resource in one place that provided basic tips for beginners - like cast iron is more expensive and is considered to look better and steel plate ones can warp or non-EPA stoves can burn wetter wood, or the catalysts in cat stoves need to be replaced after approximately x number of years and VC ones cost more than other manufacturers.
Or if you have an 11 x 11 chimney you should reduce it to x by x using x method if it's an exterior chimney and this one if it's an interior one, or if it's 8 x 8, use this method.
I don't yet understand the issues on the height of a chimney. Smoke goes up. The chimney is a tight enclosure. It can only go up until it reaches the atmosphere. If the chimney is 18' versus 24' what difference does six feet make?
I read about north-south burns versus east-west but still have no clue what they are talking about. Are they talking about the orientation of the stove or the wood in it or what?
I accept that I probably need a liner even if I just use my fireplace as an open one or at least an expert to advise me but even experts here have different opinions. I like to know enough to have a prayer of detecting when someone is BSing me or is just out to milk a job.
Are there any good books?
Or if you have an 11 x 11 chimney you should reduce it to x by x using x method if it's an exterior chimney and this one if it's an interior one, or if it's 8 x 8, use this method.
I don't yet understand the issues on the height of a chimney. Smoke goes up. The chimney is a tight enclosure. It can only go up until it reaches the atmosphere. If the chimney is 18' versus 24' what difference does six feet make?
I read about north-south burns versus east-west but still have no clue what they are talking about. Are they talking about the orientation of the stove or the wood in it or what?
I accept that I probably need a liner even if I just use my fireplace as an open one or at least an expert to advise me but even experts here have different opinions. I like to know enough to have a prayer of detecting when someone is BSing me or is just out to milk a job.
Are there any good books?
Still, is "Meh" something people say, or does it stand for anything? I never in 40 years on this earth heard someone say the word "meh"
Franks said:
Think of it as a sound effect. Sort of like a "eh". Kind of means 'yeah, no thanks, I'll pass'.
TANSTAF1 said:
If you do a search or check some of the forums here you'll soon learn that most everyone is convinced that the stove they bought is the perfect stove . . . since obviously none of us would be so dumb to go out and buy any stove and then find out it wasn't rightfor us.
All kidding aside . . . there is no perfect stove. What we do see is that in certain years there will be a strong following for certain brands. This year it seemed like Woodstock stoves and Blaze Kings were in favor . . . in the past Pacific Energy stoves were the darling bud of the wood burning crowd here.
Steel vs. cast iron vs. soapstone vs. titanium (OK, I made that last one up). . . ah, well that would be opening Pandora's Box yet again. There are folks who swear by soapstone . . . and folks who prefer steel. There are folks who say one type heats up better than another or stays heated longer . . . or is more rugged . . . or is better looking . . . or . . . well you get the idea. My own opinion in the admittedly short time I've been burning . . . it doesn't matter so much for the material as it does for the quality of construction. Sure, some may stay warmer longer and some folks may find one type prettier than another, but at the end of a long and cold winter day the fact is any quality stove built of steel, cast iron or stone with a proper fire in it (i.e. being run correctly) will keep you and your loved ones safe and warm. I could go over the oft quoted "facts" on how the different types of stoves heat longer, or how the heat is different, or how some may need to be maintained more often . . . but honestly this is where you need to do your own search and then form your own opinion . . . since many of these "facts" are in fact opinions of the owners.
EPA vs. Non-EPA . . . this one to me is a no-brainer. Non-EPA stoves = you will burn more wood and have more pollutants in the air. On the plus side, they're usually cheaper. Me . . . I'm lazy . . . if I can get a stove that produces more heat and at the same time burn less wood AND at the same time I'm doing the green thing with less pollutants . . . well I'm all for that. Honestly, EPA stoves are the way to go . . . burning less wood = more time to do fun things with the family and/or less money spent on firewood vs. spending more time and/or money cutting/buying firewood. As I said, more heat + less wood + less pollution = happiness . . . plus you'll end up feeling pretty smug with yourself when you drive by your neighbor's homes and see the smoke spilling out of the chimney in giant plumes while your home is toasty warm and no one can tell you're even running your woodstove.
Cat vs. Non-cat . . . ah, the second Great Debate. Again, there are pros- and cons- and many, many opinions. My own view . . . I went with the non-cat, secondary burn tech and I'm happy . . . although part of the reason for my decision was based on negative reviews of cats from their early years. Nowadays, if I was to look at a stove today, I don't know if I would go with a cat or not . . . but I would certainly not automatically rule out a stove with a cat. Again, a search on this topic will yield many opinions on this topic and you can make up your own mind.
Chimney . . . I went with an insulated stainless steel since it was easier and better for me in my own case. If I was to build a home today I would probably go with masonry with an insulated metal liner for the performance and look of the traditional chimney . . . but that's just me.
Doors . . . Double doors, single doors, top loaders, side loaders . . . all a matter of preference . . . a lot is what folks first learned to burn on. I grew up with side loaders and as a result I wanted a side loader. Folks who started out with a top loader often want a top loader and folks who have always had front loaders have no issues with front loaders.
Wet wood and EPA stoves . . . OK, no debate here. Unseasoned wood (I prefer this term to wet wood since wet wood to me could be seasoned or unseasoned wood that is simply covered in rain or snow) in EPA stoves is not a good idea. Doing so with some stoves could lead to premature failure of components at the worse and at best attempting to burn unseasoned wood will result in not as much heat and mucho frustration with the "new-fangled" stoves.
Impartial stove reviews: Is there a place . . . yup . . . and you found it . . . sort of, kind of. There is no such thing as an impartial review, but what you will find on the main page of hearth.com is a stove ratings section where many actual users (members) of this site have taken the time to log on and give a review of their stove they are currently using or a stove they did use. Most are brutally honest with what they like or dislike about their stove . . .
This book is pretty good: http://www.amazon.com/Woodburners-H...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259770425&sr=1-5
Also check out the Sweep's Library at www.chimneysweeponline.com. Woodstock also has good information: www.woodstove.com
When I was new to wood heating, I went to every stove manufacturerand retailer web site I could find and read and read and read. From start to cozy warm house, woodburning isn't easy, but I love it.
Also check out the Sweep's Library at www.chimneysweeponline.com. Woodstock also has good information: www.woodstove.com
When I was new to wood heating, I went to every stove manufacturerand retailer web site I could find and read and read and read. From start to cozy warm house, woodburning isn't easy, but I love it.
The original post asks a lot of questions that I can't answer, but I think one thing to keep in mind is that there is no single stove or insert that would be OK for a given situation. In fact, there are many good stoves and inserts out there. There are good steel stoves, good cast iron stoves, good soapstone stoves. There are good cat stoves and good non-cat stoves. Sure, maybe some are better than others for a given situation, but in some of the details, the choice is a matter of opinion or taste. By all means, obsess about the stove, the chimney, the firewood, etc. - that is why this forum exists. But in the end, don't think there is only one stove out there that will heat your home and that you will enjoy.
By the way, north-south fires mean that the logs are placed with one end facing the door, the other facing the back of the stove. East-west means the logs are laid across the stove, so one side of the log faces the door. The difference is that with north-south placement, the air (which generally runs from the glass to the back of the stove in most stoves, I think) can pass along the length of the logs, whereas with east-west placement the air has to flow differently. This affects the way the logs burn. Also the taller the chimney the better it draws air. I am not sure I can explain why. The better the chimney draws, the easier it is to run the stove. There is a limit to how much draft is needed, but it is more common to hear about problems caused by too little draft than too much, I gather.
By the way, north-south fires mean that the logs are placed with one end facing the door, the other facing the back of the stove. East-west means the logs are laid across the stove, so one side of the log faces the door. The difference is that with north-south placement, the air (which generally runs from the glass to the back of the stove in most stoves, I think) can pass along the length of the logs, whereas with east-west placement the air has to flow differently. This affects the way the logs burn. Also the taller the chimney the better it draws air. I am not sure I can explain why. The better the chimney draws, the easier it is to run the stove. There is a limit to how much draft is needed, but it is more common to hear about problems caused by too little draft than too much, I gather.
TANSTAF1 said:
And what about the guy at the South Pole ? What orientation does he use ?
Reminds me of when they brought out the Morris Mini in Australia in 59. Transverse engine was probably beyond the comprehension of the typical Little Aussie Battler so they came up with east-west engine :lol:
The best stove is the one that gives you the most features that you want, for the price you are willing to pay. Me, I wanted everything but wanted to pay nothing. See the stoves I have below.
Matt
Matt
EatenbyLimestone,
Where can I get me one of those? (A great stove for no cost?)
If EatenbyLimestone can provide the soruce for a stove that does everything and I don't have to pay anything, we can close this thread and thanks to all for the rest of the info, but EatenbyLimestone seems to have the answer I am seeking and I don't even have to thnk about it too much. LOL.
Anyways, thanks for the replies on the North - South and East - West thing. I knew it couldn't be a coriolis effect or even a prevailing wind direction (although I gave that one some thought) but it would have taken me some time to figure out what it really meant.
I know there is no perfect stove for everyone especially as everyone's situation is different, but I am just trying to avoid aggravating situations or costly re-dos.
Where can I get me one of those? (A great stove for no cost?)
If EatenbyLimestone can provide the soruce for a stove that does everything and I don't have to pay anything, we can close this thread and thanks to all for the rest of the info, but EatenbyLimestone seems to have the answer I am seeking and I don't even have to thnk about it too much. LOL.
Anyways, thanks for the replies on the North - South and East - West thing. I knew it couldn't be a coriolis effect or even a prevailing wind direction (although I gave that one some thought) but it would have taken me some time to figure out what it really meant.
I know there is no perfect stove for everyone especially as everyone's situation is different, but I am just trying to avoid aggravating situations or costly re-dos.
Great reading.....www.hearth.com....really cool animated avatar's also, if ya happen to get bored. No better source then the mod's and people on this site, at least for me.
Doesn't answer all of your questions but the "Guide to Residential Wood Heating" linked in my signature block is the best free publication I have been able to find so far.
TANSTAF1 said:
Great stove at no cost... I'm pretty sure there's a stove you shaped like Darth Vader in AZ that I'm pretty sure you could get for cheap... Not sure how well it burns though.
Both of my stoves were purchased at discount though. Late December Lowes and HD, mostly Lowes, puts their stoves and other seasonal stuff on clearance. The Century came in 50% off. The Englander has not been fired yet but was purchased in summer. Not as much of a bargain but 10% of sticker and tax credit.
The Coriolis Effect reminds me of another question:
Does smoke go straight up a chimney or corkscrew it's way up?
Matt
TANSTAF1 said:
There is a lot written pro and con about almost every design. Some are valid points and some are just opinions. Craig has a series of articles posted on Hearth.com that would be a good place to start reading. https://www.hearth.com/what/specific.php Peruse the right side column for some good starter articles.
Then read this info about the forums, put on your hip-waders, and jump in. Just remember, there are more opinions here than there are trees in the forest. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/13750_2/
Thanks, Burning Chunk for the link to the ratings.
Someone else mentioned them and i went to the home page but could not find a link to them, nor does it show in the drop down navigation list. You have to go to the forums page and then the "rate your stove" appears in the drop down navigation list.
Someone else mentioned them and i went to the home page but could not find a link to them, nor does it show in the drop down navigation list. You have to go to the forums page and then the "rate your stove" appears in the drop down navigation list.
Cleanburnin'
Thanks for the link to the article about chimney liners. I got on the forum today specifically to research the liners and whether to go with flex or rigid. This article answered my question. Although I am not an insert user yet, I hope to be in the very near future.
I liked what you did with your hearth in the photos as well. I plan on purchasing the Jotul Rockland 550. I was considering the 450, but like everyone seems to say on the forum, "get the largest stove that will fit." Anyway, thanks again.
Thanks for the link to the article about chimney liners. I got on the forum today specifically to research the liners and whether to go with flex or rigid. This article answered my question. Although I am not an insert user yet, I hope to be in the very near future.
I liked what you did with your hearth in the photos as well. I plan on purchasing the Jotul Rockland 550. I was considering the 450, but like everyone seems to say on the forum, "get the largest stove that will fit." Anyway, thanks again.
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