Just Got Back From Ireland: Panel Radiators Everywhere

[velvetfoot]

Everywhere we went in Ireland, there were panel radiators. The places we stayed at generally used fuel oil or propane, although one town definitely had a sulfur--ey aroma in the air. Anyway, I take it these could be more efficient than baseboard. What is the best way to go to lower temperature water in an existing system - just add more baseboard or these panels? I have no idea what the cost of these things are. (I'm not sure if radiant floors will ever be in the cards).

 

[webbie]

There are a number of companies selling these in the US now.....

The ones I saw in Denmark each had a danfoss valve on them, which pretty much made each room have it's own thermostat.

I don't think one type is more efficient than the other - but style and furniture arrangement might be easier without very long baseboards.

They don't appear to be cheap.....
http://ecomfort.com/categories/hydronic-radiators/158_159_179

 

[velvetfoot]

Thanks for the link! They look pretty expensive, there at least. I wonder how much of a novelty premium we pay for something that's very common over there.

When I said efficiency, I meant that it could run well at lower temperatures which could be more efficient and be tied in to wood, solar, etc, more easily.

Just measuring now, it looks like I have 21" below windows and only 15" below receptacles, so there's not that much height to play with, on a straight replacement. There might be enough room to piggyback a conventional baseboard over an existing one, but not sure if that's possible.

We were staying mostly in home B&Bs, and they seemed to be serially connected, at least on the floor.

 

[woodsmaster]

I think it depends on how much baseboard you want to have compaired to the size of the panels as to how low of temps you can use. If you want every foot of wall to have baseboard you may be able to use the same temps as having a radiator on the wall. They make a few different options for the same size panel that determines the output.
there are single panel single convector, single panel double convector, double panel double convector. With the last putting out the most BTU. You can find the panels on e-bay pretty cheap but the shipping is expensive. There are also different size trvs so be sure to get ones that fit the panel you get.

 

[velvetfoot]

Thanks. It's looking like retrofitting wouldn't be that easy.

Edit: ...and truly, not cheap. The stuff on eComfort for retrofit...wow$$$

 

[Bob Rohr]

Fin tube baseboard move heat by convection only. Cooler air enters the bottom of the fin and the temperature causes the airflow moving heat energy from the top.

A panel rad, depending on the brand, moves energy with convection and radiation. The warm metal surfaces radiate into the room just as a radiant slab would. Or the energy from the sun. As such they are sometimes considered to be a more comfortable emitter compared to fin tube. With a large radiant surface they generally operate at a lower supply temperature. properly sized they work well with solar or GEO supplied systems.

Consider the panel rads in sitting areas, and bathrooms as towel warmer/ rads. Panel rads could be blended with fin tube but be aware of the supply temperature to output charts when running fin tube below 180F.

Seems most of Europe heats with panel rads and TRVs. Adding an inexpensive TRV provides individual temperature control which is proportional. Being a simple non-powered temperature control they work great and last a long time. Paired with a delta P circ pump it is an near perfect temperature control and energy saver.

hr

 

[woodsmaster]

I really love the towel warmers and would put one by your shower at minimum. Now that I have them I would really miss them if they were gone. Nothing like a warm towel.

 

[velvetfoot]

The Heating Edge baseboard by Smith Environmental seems like a good-looking low-temperature baseboard replacement.
http://www.smithsenvironmental.com/html/he.html

Not cheap, but not crazy expensive either.
http://www.shophmac.com/smiths-heating-edge.html

 

[heaterman]

Fact. Smart people love panel radiators.

Fact: The Irish are smart

Fact: I am not Irish but I still love panel rads.

seriously though, check these out. www.hydronicalternatives.com

Click on the link in the little blue box. There's a wealth of info there on rads, pricing and installation technique. A good friend owns that company and imports them directly from the manufacturer in Europe. He has never steered me wrong.

 

[b33p3r]

Fact. Smart people love panel radiators.

Fact: The Irish are smart

Fact: I am not Irish but I still love panel rads.

seriously though, check these out. www.hydronicalternatives.com

Click on the link in the little blue box. There's a wealth of info there on rads, pricing and installation technique. A good friend owns that company and imports them directly from the manufacturer in Europe. He has never steered me wrong.

 

[b33p3r]

I am Irish but never claimed to be smart. I have been told however that you can get more efficiency from your system if you mix your boiler water so instead of running 180* water through your baseboard you run 150* water through it. Along with that comes a multi speed pump . Boiler still makes 180* water but the heated water lasts longer which means less cycles. Less cycles in itself saves you money?

 

[Hansson]

If you dont use panel radiators what do you use? Is it some kind of fan that blows heated air?
Almost all houses here have panel radiatiors. But all the new ones have floor heat.
Houses that dont have water radiators or water floor heat are hard to sell.

When heating whit biofule we use somting like this to get the right temp to the radiators
http://www.termoventiler.eu/media/upload/ECHOME_E.pdf
http://www.acaso.se/en/LK-Acaso/Products/Heating-Controls/Automix-20/

 

[velvetfoot]

Here, most houses seem to have air systems so that central air conditioning may also be added cheaply.
Most houses here that heat with hot water historically use baseboard radiators, http://www.argobaseboard.com/products/classic-baseboard.asp .
Warm floors seem to be coming on strong, but again, if you want central air conditioning, filtration, humidification, etc, you have to add ductwork.
If you do have ductowork, a central air source heat pump seems to make economic sense, especially if you don't have cheap fuel like natural gas.
(My observations only )

 

[woodsmaster]

I'd say probably 90% of homes here have forced air heat. In the early 1900's the large cast iron radiators were popular but faded away after a short span of popularity. A lot of the older apartments and commericial boildings
had / have boiler systems.