Just had a Roth oil tank installed. Long term fuel oil storage?

[Brian26]

I just replaced my original steel oil tank from 1958 with a 275 gallon Roth. I went with the Roth as the inner tank is plastic and impervious to corrosion, acid, rust, etc. I mainly use my mini splits for heat as I have enough net metered solar to run them pretty much the entire winter. The oil furnace really only runs in the rare polar vortex cold and to occasionally run the humidifier on it. It's going to take me years most likely before I need a fill.

Anyone know how long fuel oil will stay good in a plastic tank? Should I look into an additive?

Here are a few pictures. Really impressed with this tank. The biggest thing I like is its compact size. Takes up way less room than the old steel tank. The outer stainless shell can contain 110% of the inner plastic tank as well. It also came with a 2 million insurance cleanup policy. Its being feed by a single over head line with a tiger loop ultra with a 10 micron spin on filter. Cost me $2500 and permits were pulled and it was inspected.

 

[peakbagger]

Oil goes bad due to moisture coming in from the air vent. People dont realize that a tank "breathes" with changes in air temp eventually a layer of water will collect at the bottom of the tank, that is where the biology can get started. If usually isnt an issue with home heating systems but seems to be issue with marine use. Biobore is an additive that can be added to stop biological action. Heating oil tends to last a long time unlike gasoline.

I agree the Roth tanks or their clones are nice improvement on the old fashioned steel tanks. The only down side is the furnace piping has to be changed to pull fuel out the top.

 

[rwhite]

Is a vent pipe desiccant filter an option to keep moisture out?

 

[peakbagger]

It might but would be a PITA but would need to be maintained.

 

[Brian26]

Oil goes bad due to moisture coming in from the air vent. People dont realize that a tank "breathes" with changes in air temp eventually a layer of water will collect at the bottom of the tank, that is where the biology can get started. If usually isnt an issue with home heating systems but seems to be issue with marine use. Biobore is an additive that can be added to stop biological action. Heating oil tends to last a long time unlike gasoline.

I agree the Roth tanks or their clones are nice improvement on the old fashioned steel tanks. The only down side is the furnace piping has to be changed to pull fuel out the top.

I actually talked to my installer. He said not to worry about it but he recommended the Biobore as well. He said he's been working on oil tanks for 30 years and its not a concern especially with a Roth tank.

 

[hockeypuck]

I have an old metal tank.. 30 years old but seems solid. What should I be adding to it, if anything. Tank is in a basement that has cement floors.

 

[peakbagger]

The scary part is that the old steel tanks like my 30 year one rot from the inside out. Unless you have access to UV thickness testing there is no good way to know if its near failure,

 

[xman23]

I'm curious what why you decided to change your original tank? I assume your tank was in the basement.

The issues with these tanks is your liability of a tank in the ground, that leaks. Eventually most steel tanks will leek. Electrolysis, is the cause. Household stray electric currents are conducted into the ground through the oil tank. It eats the metal, causing small pin holes through the tank. You should't buy a house that has a tank in the ground. If there was a leek you own the cleanup cost.

But in the basement, I don't see much of an issue. Electrolysis I doubt it. And if there's a leek you will know it.

 

[peakbagger]

Its an issue in basements also . My elderly parents had a mint looking tank in their nice dry basement. It was mid 1960s vintage and this was about 15 years ago . One day my mom mentioned that she had found a minor drip under the tank and put a pan under it. I had them call the oil company and they came right over and pumped the tank out. It was paper thin in some spots but looked fine from the outside. When they took it out they could push a screwdriver through it with almost no effort along the bottom. I personally had a copper line start weeping after 20 years, it was wrapped in electrical tape and then mortared into the corner of the floor and wall. The lime in the concrete eventually got into the copper and it started weeping. The place was starting to smell the sweet smell of heating oil that I think they used to add to the oil. I shut off the valve and pulled the line and the place stunk of heating oil for months despite me cleaning it up.

I know of two folks who stored stuff under heating oil tanks and when they pulled something out from underneath they scraped the bottom. one person had 100 gallons of fuel oil soak everything within 30 feet, the other had a weeper and got the tank pumped and replaced. I also had a coworker whose dad had a line fail that was poured in the slab, He ran out of oil and got the tank filled then ran out again the next day. The state of Maine has a spill response team and they came immediately and jackhammered the floor, removed a lot of oil and contaminated dirt and then put in pump and treat groundwater system that went in the backyard with its own electrical service for several years. My friend had to sell the house when both parents went into a nursing home and they practically had to give it away with that history on the house.

The tanks build up water and sludge in the bottom and will rot from the inside out. I think the industry went to thicker tanks about 20 years ago and now they offer double bottom tanks or these Roths. I have heard that some insurance companies require tank replacement as a condition of coverage once they get over a certain age. Many states will not allow an oil tank to be filled unless the fuel lines are vinyl coated so they do not corrode from contact with concrete. I did not have access to the vinyl tubing so I ran a new copper line through a PVC pipe with flexible elbow on the bend. i think Maine requires double containment for outdoor tanks now. I see a lot of Roths in trailer parks with the optional tin roof.

 

[Brian26]

I'm curious what why you decided to change your original tank? I assume your tank was in the basement.

The issues with these tanks is your liability of a tank in the ground, that leaks. Eventually most steel tanks will leek. Electrolysis, is the cause. Household stray electric currents are conducted into the ground through the oil tank. It eats the metal, causing small pin holes through the tank. You should't buy a house that has a tank in the ground. If there was a leek you own the cleanup cost.

But in the basement, I don't see much of an issue. Electrolysis I doubt it. And if there's a leek you will know it.

The tank was from 1958 and if it leaked all the oil out it would have flowed right out my walk out basement door to the outside. I have a small stream and pond behind my house. $2500 is cheap insurance over a costly environmental cleanup.

I wish I took pictures of how nasty the inside of the old tank was when they removed it and cut it open.

I just read recently that Vermont is now requiring inspections on oil tanks. They are tagging them out and fuel dealers won't deliver oil to them.

Canada has really tough requirements on tanks as well. Insurance companies require their replacement every like 15-20 years or something.

Article on Vermont requiring inspections now.

Faulty fuel tanks — and a new state law — are blocking heating oil deliveries to hundreds.

Faulty fuel tanks — and a new state law — are blocking heating oil deliveries to hundreds

Technicians place red tags, which prohibit fuel deliveries, on heating fuel tanks that don’t comply with Vermont’s safety standards. With more than 650 red tags assigned since Aug 1, technicians are rushing to make repairs.

vtdigger.org

 

[ABMax24]

Are plastic or polyethylene tanks a viable or cost effective option? In industry we've switched a lot of tanks over to plastic due to the hidden corrosion issues associated with steel as noted above. We almost never install steel tanks anymore, at least small ones. All the larger tanks are still steel but they are usually coated on the inside with a heavy layer of a chemical resistant epoxy coating.

 

[Brian26]

Are plastic or polyethylene tanks a viable or cost effective option? In industry we've switched a lot of tanks over to plastic due to the hidden corrosion issues associated with steel as noted above. We almost never install steel tanks anymore, at least small ones. All the larger tanks are still steel but they are usually coated on the inside with a heavy layer of a chemical resistant epoxy coating.

The Roth tanks are polyethylene.

Every inner Roth tank is made out of blow-molded, high-density polyethylene that is seamless, absolutely leak-proof and corrosion-resistant. In addition, Roth tanks feature top connections to ensure the oil stays where it should. The outer tank is made of lead-proof corrosion resistant steel which is capable of containing at least 110% of the capacity of the inner tank for maximum protection.

 

[peakbagger]

The Roth tanks are used industrially. I have seen them at several client sites. Home Depot sells a very similar "clone" version. I think the firm that makes steel tanks in Quebec just north of the US Vermont border sells a version but not sure if they make it themselves. The Roths tend to be sold by heating oil dealers so a DIYer is paying a markup. The Home Depot versions usually ship to the store. They take up a lot less room as the sit taller and sit on the floor.

The big hassle for some is they dont have a bottom outlet, the fuel is pulled through the top of the containment and run overhead to the boiler. I have not done it but I see references to single line with a "tigerloop" or dual lines. i think most burner pumps have a spare plug that is used on two line systems but I havent done the research. In theory a single line might work but expect the line would need to be flushed of air which is probably a PITA.

 

[hockeypuck]

Well that did it.. going to propane. 5 year plan.

 

[hockeypuck]

I just replaced my original steel oil tank from 1958 with a 275 gallon Roth. I went with the Roth as the inner tank is plastic and impervious to corrosion, acid, rust, etc. I mainly use my mini splits for heat as I have enough net metered solar to run them pretty much the entire winter. The oil furnace really only runs in the rare polar vortex cold and to occasionally run the humidifier on it. It's going to take me years most likely before I need a fill.

Anyone know how long fuel oil will stay good in a plastic tank? Should I look into an additive?

Here are a few pictures. Really impressed with this tank. The biggest thing I like is its compact size. Takes up way less room than the old steel tank. The outer stainless shell can contain 110% of the inner plastic tank as well. It also came with a 2 million insurance cleanup policy. Its being feed by a single over head line with a tiger loop ultra with a 10 micron spin on filter. Cost me $2500 and permits were pulled and it was inspected.

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@Brian26 I noticed you removed all floor insulation with roxul up against the outside.. what made you do that? Is your basement heated?

 

[Brian26]

It was an above grade unfinished basement that I recently finished. The floor is just poured concrete. I fully insulated it including the foundation with foam board. My ductwork runs across the ceiling there and there is a small grill to supply a little heat. I rarely use the oil furnace as I mostly heat with mini splits and net metered solar. It's 20 degrees out right now and my mini splits upstairs are running and it's still 60 down there with no heat source. Insulating down there has made a huge difference.

Here is what it originally looked like.

 

[Brian26]

The big hassle for some is they dont have a bottom outlet, the fuel is pulled through the top of the containment and run overhead to the boiler. I have not done it but I see references to single line with a "tigerloop" or dual lines. i think most burner pumps have a spare plug that is used on two line systems but I havent done the research. In theory a single line might work but expect the line would need to be flushed of air which is probably a PITA.

The tigerloop self primed in about 20 seconds after I filled the tank and ran it for the first time. You never have to touch the bleeder with a tigerloop. There is a bypass plug that is installed on the pump. The single line is superior to a 2 line setup that pumps fuel back to the tank. My single line only draws the exact fuel my burner is using. Only .60 gph flows to my burner on the single line. There is zero risk of a pressurized leak on 2nd return line feed to the tank. With a 2 line setup if there is an issue with the return feed to the tank such as a leak or break your pump will just pump the oil right out. I have also read the 2 line setups put an insane amount of oil constantly through the filter.

Another bonus of the tigerloop is it preheats the fuel from the pump friction by constantly pumping it in a loop to the tigerloop. I shot it with my Flir and it was glowing with a heat signature.

This setup has been in use for decades in Europe. The Roth tank has a sticker on it that it was designed and engineered in Germany but built in NY. The Tigerloop is made in Sweden.

 

[peakbagger]

Thanks for the first hand info. So is the Tigerloop running 24/7 365? Since my oil boiler is cold start I would not want something running 24/7.

 

[Brian26]

Thanks for the first hand info. So is the Tigerloop running 24/7 365? Since my oil boiler is cold start I would not want something running 24/7.

Only when the oil pump is running. Here are some closeups. You can see the return and supply lines from the pump to the tigerloop. The return line pumps the fuel back to the top of the tigerloop. You can visually see the fuel and if you had air it would be frothy and you would see the bubbles in the top. There is a float that will release any air out the top vent that gets in the top.

 

[peakbagger]

Makes sense, I have seen a similar system in industry,

Thanks for the photos, you definitely do not have to sell me on the smaller footprint.

Just hard to spend money on backup system that is rarely used. I have two tanks of different ages back when I just bought a years worth of oil so I am considering just taking the older one out.

 

[rwh63]

wondering, any suggestions of businesses that will pump out the oil for free, in which they will re-use it for industrial heating or whatever?

 

[peakbagger]

None of any I am aware. I think the heating oil companies just filter it and blend it in with oil they sell. The sludge can go to an asphalt plant for paving. If your town recycles oil, they may take it for free. Many municipalities have waste oil heaters for their truck garages so they gladly take it.

I helped a friend pump out a few tanks years ago. He had a cheap pump that hooked up to an electric drill and would pump it up to a couple of 55 gallons drums and heat his house with it.

 

[rwhite]

wondering, any suggestions of businesses that will pump out the oil for free, in which they will re-use it for industrial heating or whatever?

Any reason why you wouldn't just use it up?

This discussion about tank integrity reminds me of some surplus fuel tanks we got from the Air Force to use on grazing allotments. Tanks were fully functional and sound when we got them. Within 5 years they rusted out. They don't like water. We had one rancher that would go to the junk yard and buy used motorcycle engines (I assume the magnesium variety) and throw them in the tanks to act as anodes. His actually lasted quite a long time.

 

[rwh63]

Any reason why you wouldn't just use it up?

This discussion about tank integrity reminds me of some surplus fuel tanks we got from the Air Force to use on grazing allotments. Tanks were fully functional and sound when we got them. Within 5 years they rusted out. They don't like water. We had one rancher that would go to the junk yard and buy used motorcycle engines (I assume the magnesium variety) and throw them in the tanks to act as anodes. His actually lasted quite a long time.

about half tank of oil in a house that is unoccupied/unheated.