Just thought this was odd about a permit needed for a basement renovation. (Mass)

[daveswoodhauler]

So, finally getting the basement remodel completed for the play room. Have the rigid insulation installed, framing up, and rough electrical completed. According to my town, all plumbing must have an individual permit pulled for just the plumbing, in addition to the building permit that I had pulled. So, I have a heating co out last night, and bring up the permit issue....and they said I don't need one as its "heat" only. I kinda questioned the guy, so then called the building department today, and they referenced me to the plumbing inspector. Plumbing inspector calls me back, and indicates that if I am installing an additional heating zone off my boiler I don't need an inspection....but if I were to install a sink, I would need an inspection.....just seems real odd that I can tie into my existing boiler to add another 500 sq feet of heating without a permit, but if I install an additional sink/drain that I would need an inspection completed. Just seems weird to me.

 

[mrjohneel]

I tore my kitchen down to the 2 x 4s and rebuilt it, including building my own cabinets. I pulled permits for the job and did it by the book, which in Mass. means I can do all of my own electric, but can't do any of my own plumbing. So the numerous recessed lights and outlets, the big stove outlet, etc. are OK even though, let's admit it, it would be easy for even the best of us to mistakenly get ZAPPED! But installing a sink, or a dishwasher, where the worst that could happen is dropping a wrench on your toe? You need a plumber. Weird. (I know, I know! Faulty venting. Trapped methane gas. Plumbers are important. I know.) But weird nonetheless.

 

[TMonter]

I tore my kitchen down to the 2 x 4s and rebuilt it, including building my own cabinets. I pulled permits for the job and did it by the book, which in Mass. means I can do all of my own electric, but can't do any of my own plumbing. So the numerous recessed lights and outlets, the big stove outlet, etc. are OK even though, let's admit it, it would be easy for even the best of us to mistakenly get ZAPPED! But installing a sink, or a dishwasher, where the worst that could happen is dropping a wrench on your toe? You need a plumber. Weird. (I know, I know! Faulty venting. Trapped methane gas. Plumbers are important. I know.) But weird nonetheless.

Obviously the plumbers union has better lobbyists than the electricians union.

 

[fishingpol]

I've always heard this. I am thinking it may be concern for a cross-connection issue or back siphoning issue with a basement faucet is the only thing I can think of. Maybe they need to verify that a proper drain trap was installed for sewer gas issues. I have seen sink traps dry out for lack of use.

I'd be curious to know the answer.

 

[CTguy9230]

i think it has more to do with your property taxes then anything else

adding a second bathroom or any kind of sink etc... can really increase
the amount of property tax you pay

 

[Highbeam]

It's one thing to need a plumbing inspection of the work you did. A very different thing to require that you hire a plumber to do it.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

It's one thing to need a plumbing inspection of the work you did. A very different thing to require that you hire a plumber to do it.

I guess thats the part of the whole issue I find odd. According to my Town, only a licensed electrician can pull an electrical permit, and only a licensed plumber can pull a plumbing permit.....but I can run my own additional zone to my boiler and I wouldn't need a permit nor inspection, lol

I am sure there is a reason for all of this, just find it odd, thats all.

 

[billb3]

Someone in the Health Department should be able to explain why you want your toilets and plumbing working correctly.

 

[jharkin]

the no plumbing without a license thing here in MA is really odd. Supposedly I cant even legally fix my toilet (WTF). I read on another forum the theory that back in the old days residents in Boston would cheat and pipe their sewer lines into the storm drain system to avoid paying sewer fees. And that the license/permit requirement was enacted to stop that.

Probably just a fairy tale, but an interesting one....

 

[DAKSY]

It's the union. The hearth shop I used to work at is
a NY based company & can't install gas lines in Mass.
As a matter of fact, they can't even legally install gas
venting, including co-axial gas fire place insert liners.
It HAS to be installed by a licensed plumber or it will
not pass code. What a plumber knows about gas venting
an FPI is beyond me, but them's the rules...

 

[Highbeam]

Someone in the Health Department should be able to explain why you want your toilets and plumbing working correctly.

You miss the point Bill. This work can be done by any homeowner with a permit and inspection by a professional to guarantee that it works correctly. The requirement that a licensed plumber do the work simply serves to keep the plumber employed.

 

[flyingcow]

What to heck is a "permit"? Plumbing inspector? All we's got is outhouse inspector's.

 

[mrjohneel]

I should note that when I did my kitchen renovation (see above) I tore down a wall that exposed the plumbing in the adjacent bathroom. That plumbing was all vented incorrectly when it was put in before I bought the house. So I ended up paying to correct it. I don't have a problem with the permit process; it ensures that one owner doesn't pass off an incorrect or dangerous problem to the next owner. Or it protects an owner from himself if he does a project incorrectly. But I would like to be able to do my OWN plumbing work, not pay a plumber, and have an inspector come in and either OK it or tell me to rip it out and do it again.

 

[billb3]

Someone in the Health Department should be able to explain why you want your toilets and plumbing working correctly.

You miss the point Bill.

Um, actually, no, I don't.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm sorry bill. I misunderstood. Really, I don't know what I was thinking.

 

[treehackers]

i think it has more to do with your property taxes then anything else

adding a second bathroom or any kind of sink etc... can really increase
the amount of property tax you pay

BINGO!

Oh you improved your house so it's worth more - now you must pay more tax!

 

[Dune]

It's the union. The hearth shop I used to work at is
a NY based company & can't install gas lines in Mass.
As a matter of fact, they can't even legally install gas
venting, including co-axial gas fire place insert liners.
It HAS to be installed by a licensed plumber or it will
not pass code. What a plumber knows about gas venting
an FPI is beyond me, but them's the rules...

In Mass, any Master Gasfitter is also a Master Plumber.

 

[Dune]

It's one thing to need a plumbing inspection of the work you did. A very different thing to require that you hire a plumber to do it.

I guess thats the part of the whole issue I find odd. According to my Town, only a licensed electrician can pull an electrical permit, and only a licensed plumber can pull a plumbing permit.....but I can run my own additional zone to my boiler and I wouldn't need a permit nor inspection, lol

I am sure there is a reason for all of this, just find it odd, thats all.

Heat work in mass isn't covered by a license. You need an oilburner license to install the oil tank and connect it to the boiler, a plumbing license to connect the water to the boiler, electrican to wire it (or at least pull a permit) you can do the rest of the work yourself.

If you have an inspected boiler, they know it has a backflow preventer, etc.

 

[KarlP]

According to my Town, only a licensed electrician can pull an electrical permit, and only a licensed plumber can pull a plumbing permit.....

Same in my town. A few years ago a co-worker called around about getting a gas dryer installed. Because the plumbers know they have you by law, the best quote she got was $350 to swap out a gas dryer. She said it took them 40 minutes and they reused all the same pipes. A different co-worker had their kitchen redone and the counters were cut to the wrong size. The counter company took care of the counter messup, but the homeowner had to pay a plumber $150 each time the sink had to be removed OR replaced... including TEMPORARILY ... including in the same site visit.

If it were about safety I would be allowed to pull a permit, the text of the code would be available to me for a nominal cost, and I could at least have the option of having it inspected. None of that is possible while a tax increase is likely. That sounds an awful lot like getting screwed in the backside. Therefore the policy to be followed is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell.


On the other hand stove permits are $50, include a printout of the NFPA and IMC guidelines relating to chimneys/wood stoves, I can do the work myself, and get an inspection. I get those.

On the third hand, I think I'm going to encourage my kids to be plumbers or electricians.