King 5510 Daily Headache

[Clyde357]

I have a problem with my stove and I can not correct the issue. I have sealed the ash pan as directed, it is vented into a standerd block chimmney. The vent is 4 feet tall with two 90's. I have tried pellets from TS and Hammer Premium with no noticable differance. The burn pot fills up with carbon. Three days on heat level four leave about 2" of crust in the pot with holes all the way through from the draft. If I pull the pot and turn it upside down the whole mass falls out as a brick. The Hammers leave a much harder crust that requires scraping. The only way it seems to burn properly is with the heat level set on 3 and the draft set on 9. It burns about 3 bags per day this way. Even running it this way it requires cleaning every other day. Any thoughts would be apreciated.

Thanks.

 

[imacman]

How old is the stove? Did you buy it new or used? Is there a liner in the chimney all the way to the top, or did you just vent it in without one?

And now for a comment, not a question.....3 bags a day on heat setting 3? WOW Something wrong there, IMO. I couldn't burn 3 bags a day if my heat setting was on max 24/7.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have a problem with my stove and I can not correct the issue. I have sealed the ash pan as directed, it is vented into a standerd block chimmney. The vent is 4 feet tall with two 90's. I have tried pellets from TS and Hammer Premium with no noticable differance. The burn pot fills up with carbon. Three days on heat level four leave about 2" of crust in the pot with holes all the way through from the draft. If I pull the pot and turn it upside down the whole mass falls out as a brick. The Hammers leave a much harder crust that requires scraping. The only way it seems to burn properly is with the heat level set on 3 and the draft set on 9. It burns about 3 bags per day this way. Even running it this way it requires cleaning every other day. Any thoughts would be apreciated.

Thanks.

If you are venting into a chimney and have 2 90 degree bends, you actually have three such bends. Your pipe must be sized accordingly.

Please describe your complete vent system, pipe size, types of elbows, and lengths of and types of all runs, this includes that "standard block chimney", and the termination cap and if possible please provide a picture of the outside vent.

 

[Clyde357]

The vent pipe is Simpson Dura-Vent one 90 directly out of the stove. Followed by a 36" section and a 12" section into a 90. The 90 has a 12" piece of pipe which extends into the chimmny. The chimmny is block with a 6" flue linner extending above the house. I have cleaned the exaust system and the chimney without any improvement. I will try to post a picture later today.

Between 8pm yesterday and 3pm today I burned aproximatly 2 bags. I can tell it is getting dirty because the flame is beginning to get lazey.

Thanks.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The vent pipe is Simpson Dura-Vent one 90 directly out of the stove. Followed by a 36" section and a 12" section into a 90. The 90 has a 12" piece of pipe which extends into the chimmny. The chimmny is block with a 6" flue linner extending above the house. I have cleaned the exaust system and the chimney without any improvement. I will try to post a picture later today.

Between 8pm yesterday and 3pm today I burned aproximatly 2 bags. I can tell it is getting dirty because the flame is beginning to get lazey.

Thanks.

Stop, if that is 3" pipe at the point you entered the chimney and went up you exceeded the combustion blowers ability to handle your venting.

If that it is 4" pipe please tell me the length of the vertical chimney run (and that run should have a liner in it that isn't the 6" clay tile flue liner).

 

[summit]

that stove should probably have a 4" liner all the way to the top... However, I don't think that in and of itself would lend iself to your particular situation.

Issue #1 I would look at would be the fuel itself. Go get a couple bags of some known quality super premium stuff: oakies, cubex, spruce point, barefoots, somethin'.... see if fuel type is affecting it.

#2 is there any way to trim the auger? By trim I mean to adjust the cycles at which the auger turns. Most top feeding units wil have an "auger trim" function to adjust feed rate to compensate for varying quality of pellets. This is usually accessed by reading the owner's manual and then pushing a series of buttons in a certain sequence to adjust the feed cycle: 3 bags a day seems like a lot to me.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The stove starts at 2 pounds/hour on setting one it maxes out at 6 pounds/hour at 5.

The OP has exceeded that manufactures recommended venting limits of two 90 degree bends the third being the turn inside the block chimney.

 

[Clyde357]

The 3" pipe from the stove dumps directy into the chimney flue pipe. Pictures attached. The pellets I have are supposed to be preminum and are the best brand localy avalible 1/2% ash all hardwood.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ouch,

Not so sure you want to hear what I want to say.

First that OAK (outside air line) you have there must be metal and depending upon how long it is it might have to be larger than you have there. PVC or any plastic piping is not allowed. The air intake is considered to be venting and must be metal.

Then like I said earlier you need at least 4" on that venting and even then you are likely to have a problem, your manufacturer says no more than 180 degrees of bends you have three 90 degree bends in that venting.

In addition to that I still don't know if the venting would even work since I don't know how high the flue is from where you enter the chimney to the top. Further the chimney will need to be lined with 4" to the top cap.

Now to further add to the misery, you should do something about the joint where the piping goes into the chimney. That isn't gas tight and constitutes a hazard to your health and that of anyone else in the house.

But on the bright side I see what might be an easy solution but will need some more information from you.

That clean out door is it just for this flue and is there anything else going into that flue?

Do you see where I'm heading with this?

 

[summit]

there are so many things wrong here... I hope you didn't pay for that install.....

 

[summit]

I have a problem with my stove and I can not correct the issue. .

yes you can. A picture is a thousand words...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have a problem with my stove and I can not correct the issue. .

yes you can. A picture is a thousand words...

I haven't even touched on uninsulated basement install issues.

I figured that Clyde has enough to think about at this time.

 

[Clyde357]

Well the stove was here when we bought the place except for the intake I added it. The chimney is not hooked to any thing else as the stove is our only heat. After reading the earlier posts I was thinking of taking the plasma to the ash clean out and eliminating all but one 90. Do I need to put in 4" pipe all the way to the top?

 

[summit]

okay, i'll take a crack at it...

1. The elbow exiting the stove goes downwards a bit. secure it properly.... 3 screws, silicone (hi temp).
2. the fresh air intake (lets just forget that it's pvc for a moment) is a smaller diameter before the stove's intake, before it flanges larger to meet the stove. It should be a uniform diameter all the way.
3. The thimble: It is not. It's loose fiberglass around a pellet pipe. At the very least, if you don't plan on a 4" liner, extend it up so it is center in the thimble, and seal the thing in correctly to the flue tile thimble you got there..
4. the cleanout door. Seal it, even if it is just duct tape to seal it.
5. The basement: some insulation would help.

 

[imacman]

....taking the plasma to the ash clean out and eliminating all but one 90. Do I need to put in 4" pipe all the way to the top?

Yes. Straight into the ash cleanout, then a 90, and a liner all the way to the top of the chimney with a sealout plate & proper round pellet cap on it. Then, change the OAK to metal pipe, and if it's more than 6' long, it should be increased to 3" as soon as possible out of the stove.

And as Smokey has hinted at, you are doing this in a basement with no insulation....not a good way to heat....the floor & walls suck most of the heat.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Not enough summit, you still have the setup left that is too long and torturous for 3" vent.

I'd line that stove exhaust up with the flue clean out and install it into the flue at that point, plug the hole in the flue where the venting goes now and line the flue.

I figured that I hit Clyde quite hard and didn't want to overload him.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

As for 3 or 4" piping with one 90 and a 1 foot horizontal you have a starting EVL of 6 that would leave you with only and EVL of 6 to go which is the same as 12 feet of vertical. I think that 4" is going to be called for.

ETA: Pete the folks that made his stove call for 4" at an EVL of 12.

 

[imacman]

As for 3 or 4" piping with one 90 and a 1 foot horizontal you have a starting EVL of 6 that would leave you with only and EVL of 6 to go which is the same as 12 feet of vertical. I think that 4" is going to be called for.

ETA: Pete the folks that made his stove call for 4" at an EVL of 12.

The OP's question above was "Do I need to put in 4†pipe all the way to the top?", and my answer in post # 14 was "Yes".

 

[summit]

Not enough summit, you still have the setup left that is too long and torturous for 3" vent.

I'd line that stove exhaust up with the flue clean out and install it into the flue at that point, plug the hole in the flue where the venting goes now and line the flue.

I figured that I hit Clyde quite hard and didn't want to overload him.

I hate to disagree, and while I am not totally versed in this brand of pellet unit, I've seen units that have been hooked up into a flue tile like this (albiet in a more air tight/secure fashion) and seldom seen where it causes an issue. Not to say it can't happen, but if this vented thru a wall out DV style then the up and out method into dead outside atmosphere (two 90 deg turns w/ a downward cap) would be acceptable. How much worse is it to dump a 3" exhaust (7.06 sq inches) into what has to be a minimum 6" round tile (28.26 sq inches) with a natural draft? Not to say it's okay (unless specified by mfg), just sayin.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

As for 3 or 4" piping with one 90 and a 1 foot horizontal you have a starting EVL of 6 that would leave you with only and EVL of 6 to go which is the same as 12 feet of vertical. I think that 4" is going to be called for.

ETA: Pete the folks that made his stove call for 4" at an EVL of 12.

The OP's question above was "Do I need to put in 4†pipe all the way to the top?", and my answer in post # 14 was "Yes".

My reason for the aside to you Pete was to let you know where the manufacture said to do the switch and to prevent anyone from thinking the magic number in this case was 15.

 

[imacman]

As for 3 or 4" piping with one 90 and a 1 foot horizontal you have a starting EVL of 6 that would leave you with only and EVL of 6 to go which is the same as 12 feet of vertical. I think that 4" is going to be called for.

ETA: Pete the folks that made his stove call for 4" at an EVL of 12.

The OP's question above was "Do I need to put in 4†pipe all the way to the top?", and my answer in post # 14 was "Yes".

My reason for the aside to you Pete was to let you know where the manufacture said to do the switch and to prevent anyone from thinking the magic number in this case was 15.

OK, IC

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Clyde,

Does that give you a handle on what needs to be done.

What is happening is that you are seeing the effect that back pressure has on exhausting a pellet stove, likely this is coupled with less than optimal incoming air supply.

This is a common problem with a lot of stoves that get self installed, unfortunately it isn't always just the self installed stoves that get installed this way.

The manual is the bible, if you stay within what is laid out in that you'll likely be all set.

This is also the reason you have to run with your draft air set to its maximum. When you make the changes to your venting you should do a full clean out and reset the stove to its default settings. Then proceed from there.

BTW: Welcome to the forum glad you found us.

 

[Clyde357]

Well first I must thank you all for planning my weekend. Lots to read so i'm going to lay out my plan.

- Change to 4" pipe from the stove

- Remove chimney ash clean out door and replace with a plate configured to accept 4" pipe seal with high temp sillicone and Kwool

- 90 in the chimney then up to the top with a cap.

- Replace intake with 3" steel pipe

Is there a kit that will allow me cut a hole directly in the ban board then go directly out side? Vertical hight would be 7 ft"

Thanks.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Why would you want to cut another hole in the house?

More holes in house bad, use of existing holes good.

Straight into the clean out and up to the top of the flue.

Fewer bends equals better draft and less cleaning.

We just love planning the weekend for others ;-).

When you get your stuff taken care of you can visit me and move a few tons of pellets so I have my pellets lined up and can bunker the 2012-2013 fuel supply.

 

[imacman]

Why would you want to cut another hole in the house? ......

Smokey, I could be wrong, but I think the OP was talking about a hole for the OAK.