Leaf pellet successfully combusted without smoke in pellet stove

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monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
Leaves and needles are abundant forestry products, harvested by raking the forest floor or as an urban yard waste.

Harvesting leaves and needles is a forestry job more friendly to women than cutting trees, it could improve diversity of labor force.

Burning leaves is infamous, because directly burning leaves release copious amount of smoke, even if the leaves are sufficiently dry.

Leaves' ignition point is almost has high as wood, but leaves have much higher surface area. Before the leaf reach ignition point, it receives much heat from its large surface area, releasing a huge amount of volatile fuel that just don't have enough matching oxygen to combust.

Pelletizing leaves reduce the surface area to the same range as wood pellets, and thus reduce the rate of releasing volatile gaseous fuel, allowing it to combust without smoke.

Here is an example of leaf pellets made by small pellet mill and combusted in Harman P61 pellet stove, releasing no visible smoke.
 

bogieb

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2014
2,995
South Central NH
Leaves and needles are abundant forestry products, harvested by raking the forest floor or as an urban yard waste.

Harvesting leaves and needles is a forestry job more friendly to women than cutting trees, it could improve diversity of labor force.

Burning leaves is infamous, because directly burning leaves release copious amount of smoke, even if the leaves are sufficiently dry.

Leaves' ignition point is almost has high as wood, but leaves have much higher surface area. Before the leaf reach ignition point, it receives much heat from its large surface area, releasing a huge amount of volatile fuel that just don't have enough matching oxygen to combust.

Pelletizing leaves reduce the surface area to the same range as wood pellets, and thus reduce the rate of releasing volatile gaseous fuel, allowing it to combust without smoke.

Here is an example of leaf pellets made by small pellet mill and combusted in Harman P61 pellet stove, releasing no visible smoke.

To me this is code for, the women do the job that doesn't involve the cool toys and the guys don't want to do :) .
 

monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
To me this is code for, the women do the job that doesn't involve the cool toys and the guys don't want to do :) .
Cannot agree, a tractor armed with rake and loader attachments is not a cool toy?

The lumberjack job is unfriendly to women, because chainsaws are heavy, and require muscle strength to maneuver. They are designed for male workers. If the designer is a woman she might design the tool otherwise.
 

bogieb

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2014
2,995
South Central NH
Yes, those would be cool toys. Unless you are talking abut a totally groomed and managed tree farm, I would think that mechanical means for collecting leaves and pine needles would be impractical - at least around here. Just the rocks that would be picked up at the same time would be a nightmare, much less trying to navigate around/thru the trees and boulders.

But then again, I'm no expert or even amateur , so I could be wrong.
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,504
SE North Carolina
Yes, those would be cool toys. Unless you are talking abut a totally groomed and managed tree farm, I would think that mechanical means for collecting leaves and pine needles would be impractical - at least around here. Just the rocks that would be picked up at the same time would be a nightmare, much less trying to navigate around/thru the trees and boulders.

But then again, I'm no expert or even amateur , so I could be wrong.
Blowers are often used.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Gee, looks like the extruder I own minus the Chinese engine.
 

monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
Electric motors have the highest power density so if you have a electric motor of the same size you get much higher extruding force than the diesel
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
1,853
Iowa
Figure out the time/expense/machinery required to complete the process per comparable wood pellet bag and report your findings here. Looks interesting but mostly as a novelty pursuit. My opinion only.
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Electric motors have the highest power density so if you have a electric motor of the same size you get much higher extruding force than the diesel
Not exactly correct. Electric motors produce maximum torque at 0 rpm. That is, an electric motor produces the most power (and torque) in a locked rotor situation but the they also burn up pretty quick. As the rpm increases, the realized power drops off. Diesel and gasoline engines produce rated power and torque at a specific rpm, usually 1800 for a diesel and 3600 for a gas motor.

The exception to the locked rotor situation is, of course, the shaded pole motors that power the augers and fans on a bio mass stove. A shaded pole motor has no armature windings. It has a laminated armature and a laminated field and the field is magnetized via windings. A shaded pole motor won't burn up at 0 rpm, only thing that occurs is the field laminations get warm from the induced magnetic field windings which make them ideal for a bio mass stove where you can vary the output rpm by chopping the current applied to the field windings via electronics (control board).

Lets elaborate on it a bit further. Steam engines produce power in a linear fashion. That is, the faster they go, the more power (and torque) they make. Why steal locomotives of yesteryear had such large boilers. So long as a steam engine can get enough steam, their power is only limited by the available steam and why the world's speed record is held by a steam locomotive. Also why a steam locomotive has a compound action. When they start out from a stop, they produce limited power. As the RPM increases, so does the realized power output.

I happen to power my extruder mill with a 10 horse 3 phase electric motor running in line a reduction gearbox. I don't use it, but I have it. If you want to buy it, I'm sure we can work out something so you can extrude away.
 
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monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
Not exactly correct. Electric motors produce maximum torque at 0 rpm. That is, an electric motor produces the most power (and torque) in a locked rotor situation but the they also burn up pretty quick. As the rpm increases, the realized power drops off. Diesel and gasoline engines produce rated power and torque at a specific rpm, usually 1800 for a diesel and 3600 for a gas motor.

The exception to the locked rotor situation is, of course, the shaded pole motors that power the augers and fans on a bio mass stove. A shaded pole motor has no armature windings. It has a laminated armature and a laminated field and the field is magnetized via windings. A shaded pole motor won't burn up at 0 rpm, only thing that occurs is the field laminations get warm from the induced magnetic field windings which make them ideal for a bio mass stove where you can vary the output rpm by chopping the current applied to the field windings via electronics (control board).

Lets elaborate on it a bit further. Steam engines produce power in a linear fashion. That is, the faster they go, the more power (and torque) they make. Why steal locomotives of yesteryear had such large boilers. So long as a steam engine can get enough steam, their power is only limited by the available steam and why the world's speed record is held by a steam locomotive. Also why a steam locomotive has a compound action. When they start out from a stop, they produce limited power. As the RPM increases, so does the realized power output.

I happen to power my extruder mill with a 10 horse 3 phase electric motor running in line a reduction gearbox. I don't use it, but I have it. If you want to buy it, I'm sure we can work out something so you can extrude away.
That little diesel engine in the video probably weight 200lbs, 10hp running output
2014 Tesla Model S motor (AC induction motor) weight 70lb, 362hp running output. The reduction gear and cooling system is probably heavier than the motor itself.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
2014 Tesla Model S motor weight 70lb, 362hp running output.
Of course the battery weighs a ton... teat for tat I'd say. While I have no idea of the rated output of it, I'd be willing to bet that 362 horsepower is obtained at the output of a reduction gearbox of some sort.

I'm not and have never been a follower of plug in vehicles. Owners tend to have brain fade when it comes to where the juice originates at.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Figure out the time/expense/machinery required to complete the process per comparable wood pellet bag and report your findings here. Looks interesting but mostly as a novelty pursuit. My opinion only.
Your opinion is actually factual, but then You Tube makes everything appear to be wonderful. Why I don't tune into it as a rule.
 

monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
Of course the battery weighs a ton... teat for tat I'd say. While I have no idea of the rated output of it, I'd be willing to bet that 362 horsepower is obtained at the output of a reduction gearbox of some sort.

I'm not and have never been a follower of plug in vehicles. Owners tend to have brain fade when it comes to where the juice originates at.
For home chargers you can also sign up for 100% renewable electricity plans in states with deregulated grid.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
I guess whatever Musk blows about has to be factual. Right. Guess they will have to close the 'Stupidcharger station in North Toledo. No where to install a windmill or a huge solar panel farm by it. Oh well.

If you buy into renewable energy then you like to live in a fantasy world. I don't on either count.

I will say that you are possibly the one poster on here that lives in an alternate reality world.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Was a comment mixed in here somewhere about the price of corn versus pellets. My corn that I burn is excess and not saleable inventory for the seed grower down the road so the price of the corn I burn stays the same constantly and I don't see it ever changing, least in my lifetime. My cost is the diesel fuel I consume driving one of my tractors down the road to fetch it, which is a mile down and a mile back. IOW, basically free.
 
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monteville

Member
Nov 23, 2019
152
Dallas
I guess whatever Musk blows about has to be factual. Right. Guess they will have to close the 'Stupidcharger station in North Toledo. No where to install a windmill or a huge solar panel farm by it. Oh well.

If you buy into renewable energy then you like to live in a fantasy world. I don't on either count.

I will say that you are possibly the one poster on here that lives in an alternate reality world.
Eastern Interconnection is the largest grid in US with plenty of renewable flowing day and night, which includes Ohio, but OH is also a coal producing state so I don't know which one is better for you.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Really: when the sun don't shine or the wind don't blow, no juice is produced. The bottom line is, no matter how you twist it to align with your fantasizes, base load will always be via coal, NG or nuclear. Interestingly, Europe is finding that out the hard way.