Maintaining Optimal Fire

[Woodrookie]

I just got my new econoburn 200 outdoor fired up this weekend (with the help of some members here!) and my main challenge so far seems to be maintaining the fire at optimal burn stage. I check it regularly, and it seems to be idling nicely one hour and the next hour or 2 it's almost out of wood. We've needed to load it almost every 4 hours or so, which is much more frequent than planned. Maybe the answer is that's just the way it is now given the conditons - single digit temps and below zero wind chill, plus I haven't been able to backfill the water line trench yet - but I thought it wouldn't hurt to check in here to see if there are any tips or suggestions on operating the little beast for best results. No thermal storage.

I've been keeping the aquastat set at 170, is that good setting?

How much of a factor is the wind? We are in high wind conditions as well.

Also, does anyone have any advice as to what's the best material to backfill the trench for max insualtion? Maybe a foot or so of sand before filling with dirt? Is there something more high tech?

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Don't know anything specific about ECoburnes. But maybe some general ideas??

The un-burried lines . . . if the water is 170 at the E what is it when it gets inside the house?

You said E 200 . .is that supposed to be 200kBtu/hr? If so, seems like that should keep up unless your heat load is pretty big. How big is your heat load?

Quantity/quality of fuel???

Lastly, go check your daughter's room. She's been sneaking out the window at night. She doesn't close the window 'cause she don't want you to hear her. Shut the window

 

[Fred61]

Are you charging (trying to heat) a concrete slab for the first time?

 

[Como]

What is your peak heat load.

How do weather conditions now compare with the peak load.

Is the pipe insulated? Ok, a silly question but I had to ask.

Wind loads do not feature in heat loss calcs, if you have a tightly built house it makes minimal difference, if not then the wind will blow all your heat out.

 

[Woodrookie]

Thanks for your responses...I have a forced air heat system, so no concrete slab to heat up.

Fred61 - According to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it's only travleling about 37ft), that's a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel --- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods). LOL about my daughter - she's only 13 and if she's sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up!

 

[Woodrookie]

What is your peak heat load.

How do weather conditions now compare with the peak load.

Is the pipe insulated? Ok, a silly question but I had to ask.

Wind loads do not feature in heat loss calcs, if you have a tightly built house it makes minimal difference, if not then the wind will blow all your heat out.

Como - I did not factor in wind conditions in heat load calcs. My house is timber frame construction that's pretty tight with the SIPS that were used for the shell. Yes, the pipe is insulated (not a silly question at all if you knew who you were dealing with :cheese: )

 

[Fred61]

Thanks for your responses...I have a forced air heat system, so no concrete slab to heat up.

Fred61 - According to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it's only travleling about 37ft), that's a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel --- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods). LOL about my daughter - she's only 13 and if she's sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up!

Your description on your wood gathering leads me to believe you downed your trees and assumed they were drying and then removed them from the woods. My experience tells me that the wood must be split, stacked and undercover for about two years before it is ready to burn in a gasser.

 

[Woodrookie]

Thanks for your responses...I have a forced air heat system, so no concrete slab to heat up.

Fred61 - According to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it's only travleling about 37ft), that's a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel --- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods). LOL about my daughter - she's only 13 and if she's sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up!

Your description on your wood gathering leads me to believe you downed your trees and assumed they were drying and then removed them from the woods. My experience tells me that the wood must be split, stacked and undercover for about two years before it is ready to burn in a gasser.

Fred61 - That is pretty accurate, accept that mother nature downed them. Some had been down for 2 years, but, not hey were not split or covered. Yes, they've only been split and stacked, uncovered, for about a month or so. That's a great point about covering the wood. I suppose I need to get a tarp, pronto, until I can build a structure to cover it.

 

[Woodrookie]

What is your peak heat load.

How do weather conditions now compare with the peak load.

Is the pipe insulated? Ok, a silly question but I had to ask.

Wind loads do not feature in heat loss calcs, if you have a tightly built house it makes minimal difference, if not then the wind will blow all your heat out.

Como, according to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it’s only travleling about 37ft), that’s a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel—- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods).

Very funny about my daughter - she’s only 13 and if she’s sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up now!

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I'm thinking I know why Craig went on hiatus . . . the boards are getting so slow peeps are stuttering . . .

peeps are stuttering . . .

stuttering . . . .

Anywho:

This is all SWAG, but sounds like your fuel is inappropriate . . . you may need to increase the quantity and or the quality. If your first year experience with the ECoburne is anything like mine with the GW, you need to get better wood, load the unit, then leave the dayumnn door closed

But seriously, I'd try talking to my dealer and posting again with Econoburn in the title. There are a few users here and I'd bet they could get you headed in the right direction.

Oh, you think it's bad now when she's 13 . . .wait 4 years ;-)

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I just got my new econoburn 200 outdoor fired up this weekend (with the help of some members here!) and my main challenge so far seems to be maintaining the fire at optimal burn stage. I check it regularly, and it seems to be idling nicely one hour and the next hour or 2 it's almost out of wood. We've needed to load it almost every 4 hours or so, which is much more frequent than planned. Maybe the answer is that's just the way it is now given the conditons - single digit temps and below zero wind chill, plus I haven't been able to backfill the water line trench yet - but I thought it wouldn't hurt to check in here to see if there are any tips or suggestions on operating the little beast for best results. No thermal storage.

I've been keeping the aquastat set at 170, is that good setting?

How much of a factor is the wind? We are in high wind conditions as well.

Also, does anyone have any advice as to what's the best material to backfill the trench for max insualtion? Maybe a foot or so of sand before filling with dirt? Is there something more high tech?

Try using some real large splits or even large rounds. They will slow down the burn rate & may help. You need dry wood. My Atmos heats far better with 8 to 10" rounds than 4" dry split wood. Smaller wood just heats the chimney for me. You should get some of the longer burn times you want too, Randy

 

[pybyr]

Try getting some pallets and cutting them up and using them as fuel for a few fires.

They are likely to be dry, and that'll give you an ability to see whether it's an issue of your wood being damp.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as Fred61 in saying that wood has to be cut split and stacked for two years; I've been using some white Ash that I only felled and split in September, and its moisture content is down in the very low 20% and it works OK. Also burning some dead hophornbeam cut in October that works like a charm. But it varies tremendously with wood species/ local conditions. Some species of wood don't seem to season at all once dead (elm), or rot faster than they season (white birch).

But anyways, do try the pallets as a way of seeing how the unit does with dry wood.

 

[Fred61]

Thanks for your responses...I have a forced air heat system, so no concrete slab to heat up.

Fred61 - According to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it's only travleling about 37ft), that's a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel --- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods). LOL about my daughter - she's only 13 and if she's sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up!

Your description on your wood gathering leads me to believe you downed your trees and assumed they were drying and then removed them from the woods. My experience tells me that the wood must be split, stacked and undercover for about two years before it is ready to burn in a gasser.

Fred61 - That is pretty accurate, accept that mother nature downed them. Some had been down for 2 years, but, not hey were not split or covered. Yes, they've only been split and stacked, uncovered, for about a month or so. That's a great point about covering the wood. I suppose I need to get a tarp, pronto, until I can build a structure to cover it.

I don't think covering the wood you just split is going to do you much good even if you cover it now. You may have to suffer through the remainder of this winter with what you have or whatever you can scrounge. You should use all the spare time you have this winter preparing your wood for next season. Split it as soon as possible and stack it high and dry off the ground. Cover only the top of the stacks allowing air to circulate.

 

[willworkforwood]

Here are a few more questions (feels like you're on trial, right?). Where are you reading the 170 - is it from the front digital display, or on the side temp/pressure gauge? What species of wood are you burning? How much wood are you loading - completely full; to the door; less than that; loosly or tightly packed? What kind and how tall is your chimney? Do you have a Barometric Damper? Can you actually hold the pipe coming into the house? If you are sending 170* from the boiler (side gauge), after only 40 feet, the feeder pipe in the house should be WAY too hot to touch. Once you get this sorted out, your bigest problem will be figuring out what to do with the extra heat from the 200.

 

[kabbott]

Try getting some pallets and cutting them up and using them as fuel for a few fires.

They are likely to be dry, and that'll give you an ability to see whether it's an issue of your wood being damp.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as Fred61 in saying that wood has to be cut split and stacked for two years; I've been using some white Ash that I only felled and split in September, and its moisture content is down in the very low 20% and it works OK. Also burning some dead hophornbeam cut in October that works like a charm. But it varies tremendously with wood species/ local conditions. Some species of wood don't seem to season at all once dead (elm), or rot faster than they season (white birch).

But anyways, do try the pallets as a way of seeing how the unit does with dry wood.

I second the pallets... I brought home a trailer load of them from work and cut a bunch up, Filled up the boiler with pallets and it put out a SCARY amount of
heat. Now I use them to start the fire and mix in with my "not so great" (read punky) wood... Makes a big difference.

 

[Woodrookie]

I'm thinking I know why Craig went on hiatus . . . the boards are getting so slow peeps are stuttering . . .

peeps are stuttering . . .

stuttering . . . .

Anywho:

This is all SWAG, but sounds like your fuel is inappropriate . . . you may need to increase the quantity and or the quality. If your first year experience with the ECoburne is anything like mine with the GW, you need to get better wood, load the unit, then leave the dayumnn door closed

But seriously, I'd try talking to my dealer and posting again with Econoburn in the title. There are a few users here and I'd bet they could get you headed in the right direction.

Oh, you think it's bad now when she's 13 . . .wait 4 years ;-)

Thanks - as I keep experimenting, I'm starting to conclude it's the wood....too much moisture in it. I got one of those moisture gauges from the store and spot checked some of the wood...one of my pieces was over 50% and a lot were in the 30%'s. I told my wife i was going to test every piece and sort them all out, and of course she looked at me like I was psycho! Seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Woodrookie]

I just got my new econoburn 200 outdoor fired up this weekend (with the help of some members here!) and my main challenge so far seems to be maintaining the fire at optimal burn stage. I check it regularly, and it seems to be idling nicely one hour and the next hour or 2 it's almost out of wood. We've needed to load it almost every 4 hours or so, which is much more frequent than planned. Maybe the answer is that's just the way it is now given the conditons - single digit temps and below zero wind chill, plus I haven't been able to backfill the water line trench yet - but I thought it wouldn't hurt to check in here to see if there are any tips or suggestions on operating the little beast for best results. No thermal storage.

I've been keeping the aquastat set at 170, is that good setting?

How much of a factor is the wind? We are in high wind conditions as well.

Also, does anyone have any advice as to what's the best material to backfill the trench for max insualtion? Maybe a foot or so of sand before filling with dirt? Is there something more high tech?

Try using some real large splits or even large rounds. They will slow down the burn rate & may help. You need dry wood. My Atmos heats far better with 8 to 10" rounds than 4" dry split wood. Smaller wood just heats the chimney for me. You should get some of the longer burn times you want too, Randy

Thanks Randy. I'm starting to conclude it's the wood for sure, too much moisture. I have some good hard, dry wood that is about 8" to 10" and used that last night and got some good burns - higher temp and longer. The bad news is I don't have much of that kind of wood ready to go, but the good news is there is a lot of it in the "back 10" ready to be pulled out. Back, get ready for another weekend of work!

 

[Woodrookie]

Try getting some pallets and cutting them up and using them as fuel for a few fires.

They are likely to be dry, and that'll give you an ability to see whether it's an issue of your wood being damp.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as Fred61 in saying that wood has to be cut split and stacked for two years; I've been using some white Ash that I only felled and split in September, and its moisture content is down in the very low 20% and it works OK. Also burning some dead hophornbeam cut in October that works like a charm. But it varies tremendously with wood species/ local conditions. Some species of wood don't seem to season at all once dead (elm), or rot faster than they season (white birch).

But anyways, do try the pallets as a way of seeing how the unit does with dry wood.

Sounds like a great idea. I will try that this weekend. i have a couple pallets laying around and should be able scrounge up some more.

 

[Woodrookie]

Try getting some pallets and cutting them up and using them as fuel for a few fires.

They are likely to be dry, and that'll give you an ability to see whether it's an issue of your wood being damp.

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as Fred61 in saying that wood has to be cut split and stacked for two years; I've been using some white Ash that I only felled and split in September, and its moisture content is down in the very low 20% and it works OK. Also burning some dead hophornbeam cut in October that works like a charm. But it varies tremendously with wood species/ local conditions. Some species of wood don't seem to season at all once dead (elm), or rot faster than they season (white birch).

But anyways, do try the pallets as a way of seeing how the unit does with dry wood.

Sounds like a great idea. I will try that this weekend. i have a couple pallets laying around and should be able scrounge up some more.

 

[Woodrookie]

Thanks for your responses...I have a forced air heat system, so no concrete slab to heat up.

Fred61 - According to my calcs, my heat need should be about 120K btu and yes the eco 200 has 200K btu. Not sure what temp it is when it gets in the house (it's only travleling about 37ft), that's a good question, but the line is almost too hot to touch at point of entry into the house when the unit is at or around 170 degrees - good question though. good question about the fuel --- I should get a moisture gauge to check on my wood. I thought everything we pulled out of the woods was seasoned at least a year though some of it may have been punky (as they say in my neck of the woods). LOL about my daughter - she's only 13 and if she's sneaking out at night when the temp is below zero, then I give up!

Your description on your wood gathering leads me to believe you downed your trees and assumed they were drying and then removed them from the woods. My experience tells me that the wood must be split, stacked and undercover for about two years before it is ready to burn in a gasser.

Fred61 - That is pretty accurate, accept that mother nature downed them. Some had been down for 2 years, but, not hey were not split or covered. Yes, they've only been split and stacked, uncovered, for about a month or so. That's a great point about covering the wood. I suppose I need to get a tarp, pronto, until I can build a structure to cover it.

I don't think covering the wood you just split is going to do you much good even if you cover it now. You may have to suffer through the remainder of this winter with what you have or whatever you can scrounge. You should use all the spare time you have this winter preparing your wood for next season. Split it as soon as possible and stack it high and dry off the ground. Cover only the top of the stacks allowing air to circulate.

Yep - anytime I've gotten a little frustrated this week I go look at the propane tank. When i see the gauge hasn't moved it brings a smile to my face...

 

[Woodrookie]

Here are a few more questions (feels like you're on trial, right?). Where are you reading the 170 - is it from the front digital display, or on the side temp/pressure gauge? What species of wood are you burning? How much wood are you loading - completely full; to the door; less than that; loosly or tightly packed? What kind and how tall is your chimney? Do you have a Barometric Damper? Can you actually hold the pipe coming into the house? If you are sending 170* from the boiler (side gauge), after only 40 feet, the feeder pipe in the house should be WAY too hot to touch. Once you get this sorted out, your bigest problem will be figuring out what to do with the extra heat from the 200.

Before I answer I'll need to see the subpeona :zip: No, this is great. Any and all advice is appreciated.

Where are you reading the 170 - is it from the front digital display, or on the side temp/pressure gauge?
I am reading the 170 at the front digital display. To be honest with you, I haven't paid much attention to the temperature reading at the side gauge. I read the pressure setting (around 15 - 20 psi) but not the temp. the first day or 2 I remember the side temp reading was quite a bit lower than the digital.

What species of wood are you burning? oaks, ash, maples and cherry

How much wood are you loading - completely full; to the door; less than that; loosly or tightly packed?
Loading it full but not tight. I'm trying to stack them in there "log cabin" style.

What kind and how tall is your chimney? Not very. Only what was provided with the initial purchase, i didn't buy any extra. I thing the vent system is only around 4 feet.

Do you have a Barometric Damper? Uhhh, no, what is it? Should I have one for an outdoor model?

Can you actually hold the pipe coming into the house? When it's at 170* at the funrace, no, it's too hot to hold.

Once you get this sorted out, your bigest problem will be figuring out what to do with the extra heat from the 200. i like the sounds of that statement

 

[willworkforwood]

I reread your OP, and now realize that "200 outdoor", must mean the new EB boiler-in-a-box. It must be fun to have one of those - everyone who thinks you bought an OWB smoke dragon must be wondering why you're not running it ;-P. So some of my questions don't even apply to your boiler. And it sounds like you nailed down the culprit as being wet wood. So, the only other thing I will add is that you need to be aware that there are heat tubes located at the rear of the boiler, which are very prone to getting coated with creosote. I'm sure you're aware by now that creosote in the upper burn chamber is not an issue - it's normal and everyone gets that. These tubes however are not visible, unless the 2 steel plates are removed to allow access. 2 years ago I got a heavy dose of creosote-filled tubes (self-inflicted wound), and can tell you that it's something you want to do your best to avoid. Wet wood and lots of idling are the 2 causes of creosote in the tubes, so the more dry wood the better. One thing that does surprise me a bit is your boiler temp. A 170* temp on the front would normally translate to around 160* on the side, which the supply temp that exits the boiler. This would make the temp into your house is 160* or lower, and I thought air exchangers typically need more than that (depending on HX size). But I have BB, not air, so I don't have any hands-on experience with that. Good luck finding dry wood and/or pallets.

 

[Como]

Were you able to burn off the creosote or did you have to get in there and clean them?

 

[Woodrookie]

I reread your OP, and now realize that "200 outdoor", must mean the new EB boiler-in-a-box. It must be fun to have one of those - everyone who thinks you bought an OWB smoke dragon must be wondering why you're not running it ;-P. So some of my questions don't even apply to your boiler. And it sounds like you nailed down the culprit as being wet wood. So, the only other thing I will add is that you need to be aware that there are heat tubes located at the rear of the boiler, which are very prone to getting coated with creosote. I'm sure you're aware by now that creosote in the upper burn chamber is not an issue - it's normal and everyone gets that. These tubes however are not visible, unless the 2 steel plates are removed to allow access. 2 years ago I got a heavy dose of creosote-filled tubes (self-inflicted wound), and can tell you that it's something you want to do your best to avoid. Wet wood and lots of idling are the 2 causes of creosote in the tubes, so the more dry wood the better. One thing that does surprise me a bit is your boiler temp. A 170* temp on the front would normally translate to around 160* on the side, which the supply temp that exits the boiler. This would make the temp into your house is 160* or lower, and I thought air exchangers typically need more than that (depending on HX size). But I have BB, not air, so I don't have any hands-on experience with that. Good luck finding dry wood and/or pallets.

Thanks for the tip on the heat tubes. Yet 1 more reason to avoid wet wood.

 

[jashcroft]

I reread your OP, and now realize that "200 outdoor", must mean the new EB boiler-in-a-box.

Is this the case? I'm not familar with the boiler-in-the-box version. Is it well insulated? I have my EB150 in an 8X10 insulated building. I was gonna ask what kind of building you keep your boiler in and if it was insulated. An insulated building would make a big difference especially with the wind situation your talking about. Also, a barometric damper is a must if yours isn't the "boiler-in-a-box".

I agree that unseasoned wood is your #1 problem right now, though. Do what you can do for this year and start cutting, splitting and stacking now for next year. Happy burning!