Messy property next door.

[Danno77]

My property consists of two city lots, this hasn't always been the case, many many years ago there were about 7 city lots with the house, then over years of selling piece after piece to somebody who wanted to build, etc there were three city lots.

That brings us to 1999. Tornado hits house, Insurance company pays guy, guys sells damaged house to Flipper (a friend/coworker) who fixes it up to sell. When the guy sold the house he only put two lots into the deal and to this day still owns the third lot. It would be sort of an L shaped property with it. I bought the house from my coworker and always thought it would be cool to get ahold of this third lot because it's totally overgrown, but with some nice trees on it. Picture a path through heavy growth to a nice little paved garden in the middle with benches and the like.

Anyway, this property may have a ton of weeds, brush, and who knows what else growing on it, but there is a HUGE amount of garbage just about 20 feet from my property. I don't know where this garbage came from, but I suspect a lot of it is remnants of the "flipping". In other words, from my coworker. I always wanted to ask him about it, but sadly he passed away last sunday (he retired a couple of years ago).

What should I do next? I have several possible solutions, but I'm interested in hearing how well you think any of them would play out:

1. Make an offer to the guy and mention the garbage and hope he gives me a good deal because of it.
2. Tell the owner that his lot is full of garbage and that he needs to clean it up, then make him an offer on it when he does.
3. Tell the owner that his lot is full of garbage and that he needs to clean it up, then when he doesn't inform city who will likely "do something about it" then when the guy sees it's gonna be a huge inconvenience for him, I swoop in with a decent offer to buy as is and clean it up myself.

I'm not really sure what it's worth. Not a huge amount, I'm sure. A nice lot will sometimes go for 5K in similar areas of town, but sometimes when they aren't worth anything except making someones yard bigger they will go for as little as 2-3K. I suppose the other neighbor who borders it might be interested, so that could jack the price if they express interest.

One interesting factor to the whole thing is that the owner of the property moved to the southern portion of the state, so is 5+ hours away, limiting his ability to do anything by himself. Paying to have someone clean this up could be pricey. We are talking BIG dumpster load type stuff here. Carpeting, cans, decking scraps, cement chunks, a rotting walnut root ball sitting kinda on it all, lots of garbage bags with empty mulch bags, etc inside.

So, any advice?

 

[JustWood]

Any mention of the garbage is gonna piss him off and make him think you're gonna blow him in to the authorities.
I'd try to make a deal without any mention of the trash.
I'd use the mention as an absolute last resort when no other deal can be made.

 

[Danno77]

Any mention of the garbage is gonna piss him off and make him think you're gonna blow him in to the authorities.
I'd try to make a deal without any mention of the trash.
I'd use the mention as an absolute last resort when no other deal can be made.

you make a good point.

as a side note: I kinda feel bad about the whole garbage thing, because I honestly don't think he did it. So I guess there is the moral angle to the whole thing, too.

 

[JustWood]

I've bought and sold quite a few properties over the years and have rarely had any success cold call buying a property. Seems people don't want the trouble of going through the motions unless they have to = money situation,estate liquidation, or neighborhood/zoning problems.

 

[Danno77]

Really? I have no experience, but I just figured the lot is just sitting there. Nobody uses it and there isn't a reason for the guy to keep it. It's too small to build on based on city codes nowadays, and the guy has to pay taxes on it. although, you are right, people often ignore logic because of the short term hassle with it all.

 

[sgt7546]

You may want to check about the tax situation on that property. I've bought lots by researching for back taxes, then if the amount owed is something I could stomach, I contact the owner and offer to take it off their hands.

 

[Danno77]

You may want to check about the tax situation on that property. I've bought lots by researching for back taxes, then if the amount owed is something I could stomach, I contact the owner and offer to take it off their hands.

I doubt this guy owes back taxes, but I'll check it out when I get a chance. I don't remember anything when I was in the books at the courthouse doing research on my house.

 

[JustWood]

Really? I have no experience, but I just figured the lot is just sitting there. Nobody uses it and there isn't a reason for the guy to keep it. It's too small to build on based on city codes nowadays, and the guy has to pay taxes on it. although, you are right, people often ignore logic because of the short term hassle with it all.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I say go for it.
Be prepared for $1000+ closing and survey costs.

 

[Danno77]

Really? I have no experience, but I just figured the lot is just sitting there. Nobody uses it and there isn't a reason for the guy to keep it. It's too small to build on based on city codes nowadays, and the guy has to pay taxes on it. although, you are right, people often ignore logic because of the short term hassle with it all.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I say go for it.
Be prepared for $1000+ closing and survey costs.

This would be cash and they don't do surveys around here unless there is concern with fences or something, Heck, I bought the house without a survey on the property. I'd hope I can get this done for much less than 1000 on top of everything.

 

[peakbagger]

The alternative is the check to see if the community has any rules about dumps or public nuisances. Sometimes the definition is pretty strict and the lot may qualify as a "dump". Generally health or code enforcement will get involved. The one hassle is that many will not act unless there is a direct complaint and generally thats public record so there is a chance that you could dragged into it. On the other hand it should get the lot cleaned up and th hassle factor of keeping it clean could get the owner to sell it. By the way, it the area is full of contruction debris, keep an eye out for old linoeum, floor tile, cement siding or insulation. Its very expensive to get rid of hazardous waste and it not unusual for a shady busnessman to "store" thees materials rather than dealing with them properly.

 

[pyper]

If you're inside the city, there is almost certainly a law regarding dumps on property. Usually it's a building code.

If you really want it, and don't care if you PO the guy, go to codes enforcement and get them to put a notice on the property. When they post the notice, call the guy up and make an offer. Faced with the choice of selling for some cash vs. spending a lot of cash to maintain a property without a clear future is a pretty easy choice. Unless the guy is buddies with the person in codes he'll never know why his property got posted, and even if he does, so what? He's still got the same choices: clean it up, face a series of never ending fines, abandon the property to the city, or sell for a profit.

 

[JustWood]

The alternative is the check to see if the community has any rules about dumps or public nuisances. Sometimes the definition is pretty strict and the lot may qualify as a "dump". Generally health or code enforcement will get involved. The one hassle is that many will not act unless there is a direct complaint and generally thats public record so there is a chance that you could dragged into it. On the other hand it should get the lot cleaned up and th hassle factor of keeping it clean could get the owner to sell it. By the way, it the area is full of contruction debris, keep an eye out for old linoeum, floor tile, cement siding or insulation. Its very expensive to get rid of hazardous waste and it not unusual for a shady busnessman to "store" thees materials rather than dealing with them properly.

Not to get off subject but those materials are not considered hazardous waste (if they were they woodn't be used in construction) and are NOT expensive to get rid of.

 

[peakbagger]

Not to get off subject but those materials are not considered hazardous waste (if they were they woodn't be used in construction) and are NOT expensive to get rid of.[/quote]

I agree they arent used in construction now but many contained them in the past, flippers tend to concetrate on older homes so it is a highly likelyhood of encoutering them

Floor tiles and some sheet goods were manufactured with asbestos fibers, thus possible hazardous waste. (generally linoleum didnt have asbestos fibers but many sheet goods misidentified as "linoleum" did.

Cement siding - AKA transite - was manufactured with asbestos up until the sixties

Insulation - There is still a lot of asbestos in old buildings and not all of it makes it to the proper disposal site.

Old florescent ballasts - PCB's used in 95 percent of them

Been there done that with all of them. A lot of the crews used for quick rehabs are day laborers, they are unfortunately not educated on what is and isnt hazardous and even if they know, they are going to do what the person paying them wants.

There are probably many reputable flippers out there, but the various cable shows show some pretty sleezy operators.

 

[Highbeam]

3-5 thousand for a city lot? Are you serious? At another zero to that here. Wow, for that kind of money I would definitely try and scoop it up. I own a large woodlot that I would sell to a cold caller.

 

[maxny]

Another option might be to offer to rent the property for nominal sum or perhaps rent with an option to buy. If he goes for it then you can bring up the issue of the debris and how to get rid of it.

 

[Danno77]

3-5 thousand for a city lot? Are you serious? At another zero to that here. Wow, for that kind of money I would definitely try and scoop it up. I own a large woodlot that I would sell to a cold caller.

and if I lived in a place where there was another zero on that price, i'd probably have another zero tacked onto the end of my salary.

 

[Highbeam]

Or not, there are current postings in IL for my job that are equivalent to my pay. I and many others, foolishly perhaps, choose to live where cost of living is very high. This does not mean our pay is much higher though I would be happy if it were true.

Small city lots sell for around 50000 here, down to 40 with the recession. Build a house on it for 250k and sell it for 300. Pretty typical before and after the boom. During the boom, the building/lot would sell for 450,000. These are 5000-6000 SF lots.

 

[snowleopard]

It might be worth your time to shoot some pix of the trash piles. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them. I can't even think of a scenario where you would need to pull them out, but this sounds like one of those situations where you may wish you'd had some documentation.

 

[NCPABill]

If you are just looking to clean up the neighborhood, maybe look into teaming up with the neighbor and both of you buying it, then split it with lot additions to your two lots. It would prevent the bidding war concept.

If you made the effort to drive 5 hours to me, explained with a lot plan the buildable area (or lack thereof), noted the taxes paid for no appreciable use, and told me you would clean up the place instead of me, I'd think pretty hard of selling just to get the monkey off my back?

 

[Danno77]

I can't really see a good way to split it with my neighbor. if you look at this rude map: I'm green properties, Then there is another neighbor to the east (brown) and the property in question is red. the neighbor in blue would be likely to want the property. Right now the property is a big overgrown mess that sheilds that Blue neigbhbor from prying eyes, but also makes for a blind corner that everyone in the neighborhood complains about because the Blue neighbor is reportedly a driving maniac (I've never noticed her to be a problem).

 

[NCPABill]

Maybe cut the property into two squares (cut horizontally). Makes your lot deeper and her lot with more frontage? Maybe sell the idea on her taking away future developability by owning the frontage? You would probably need to do lot additions to your lots in that the lot size is probably zoned out?

Anyhow, good luck