Misleading Advertising in Wood Stove Industry: Is there a better way to move forward?

[Don2222]

Hello

People know what they are buying? I really do not believe most customers are being duped.
Do you?

From
http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/

“Meets EPA Requirements” said an advertisement by a retailer of Vogelzang stoves. But what the advertisement really means is that the stoves do not meet EPA emissions standards. They meet requirements to be exempt from emissions standards. Are customers duped into thinking they are buying an EPA certified stove? Of course they are. And the top of the ad reads “Vogelzang .... the name you can trust.”

Companies or retailers who run advertisements like that now could receive a letter or email from the EPA, requesting that they stop using such language. Vogelzang’s website, like the sites of the other companies that make exempt stoves says: “Vogelzang stoves meet EPA requirements for "exempt" wood/coal burning appliances (stoves).” This is still confusing for the consumer but it is technically accurate and apparently acceptable language for the EPA.

US Stove Company’s website simply says “EPA exempt.” Any consumer who did not understand that could research it within minutes. But its unclear how many are confused and how many figure it out.

Yes, it does say EPA exempt for the US stove model1261 wood stove.
https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=309&product_id=498

• Installation materials are NOT included (i.e. floor protector, chimney connector, thimble, radiation shield, flue, etc.)
• EPA exempt
• Two piece safety handle insures safety from burning
• Heavy duty cast iron construction
• Built in damper
• Flue collar: 6"
• Two lift out cook lids allow you to cook food
• Not approved for use in mobile or modular homes
• Not available for sale in WA and CA
• UPC: 012685012612

 

[Ashful]

I think she made some good points in the article, albeit maybe a little over-stated. Customers taking the time to spend a few minutes on Google are surely not being "duped", but those just going to Northern Tool and impulse-buying a stove without taking the time to learn the terminology likely don't understand that "Meets EPA Requirements" means "exempt smoke dragon."

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Good comment. "Smoke Dragon" is a good descriptive term!

 

[DexterDay]

Have you looked into pellet stoves Don?

Lots of Manufacturers go with certain efficiency ratings, without ever having them tested... ?

 

[Eric Johnson]

In my limited experience, many dealers will tell you what they think you want to hear. That's probably OK when it comes to cars, but stoves are a little different animal, I think.

I checked with four dealers before recently buying a pellet stove for the office where I work. Only one mentioned a (rather obscure, but enforceable) code restriction in my town requiring a fairly large setback for the chimney outlet from the nearest window. Nobody else said boo. Of course, I went with one of the silent types. Cheaper, and they offered to put the chimney outlet where it seemed to make the most sense, but within the setback.

 

[begreen]

This is true of many industries, not just wood stoves. Ever listen to a computer or audio/video sales person's spiel?

Hey, it's good to see you here Eric!

 

[Eric Johnson]

Not dead yet, bg.

 

[begreen]

I sure hope not, that would be spooky! Good to hear from you.

 

[Don2222]

In my limited experience, many dealers will tell you what they think you want to hear. That's probably OK when it comes to cars, but stoves are a little different animal, I think.

I checked with four dealers before recently buying a pellet stove for the office where I work. Only one mentioned a (rather obscure, but enforceable) code restriction in my town requiring a fairly large setback for the chimney outlet from the nearest window. Nobody else said boo. Of course, I went with one of the silent types. Cheaper, and they offered to put the chimney outlet where it seemed to make the most sense, but within the setback.

Hello Eric

Well we would certainly like to see pics of your pellet stove office installation in the Pellet Stove Forum?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Yes Eric, you are most welcome any time. I miss your posts.


Question to all: What makes a stove exempt? How do they get this exemption?

 

[Eric Johnson]

Hello Eric

Well we would certainly like to see pics of your pellet stove office installation in the Pellet Stove Forum?

I can probably do that at some point. Our electric bill (our only other source of heat) went from $1,500 in '11 to about $500 this past winter. There were other factors contributing to that decline, but the pellet stove had a lot to do with it. And, of course, the office was a lot more comfortable, so the staff was a lot happier, which also has some value.

 

[Don2222]

I can probably do that at some point. Our electric bill (our only other source of heat) went from $1,500 in '11 to about $500 this past winter. There were other factors contributing to that decline, but the pellet stove had a lot to do with it. And, of course, the office was a lot more comfortable, so the staff was a lot happier, which also has some value.

Cool Eric

Do you still have to use any electric for heat? Is it all wood pellets?

I do not use any oil for heat now. Not a drop!

 

[BrowningBAR]

Are people being duped into thinking a stove is EPA certified when it's not? No.

Are people being duped into believing how well a stove will heat and how long it will burn? Absolutely.

 

[PapaDave]

Caveat Emptor.
Edumacate yourself as much as possible before ANY purchase.
Much less dupable that way.
If you believe a salesperson, well..........good ruck.

 

[Don2222]

Are people being duped into think a stove is EPA certified when it's not? No.

Are people being duped into believing how well a stove will heat and how long it will burn? Absolutely.

X2 - I agree 100 Percent

 

[Dairyman]

Question to all: What makes a stove exempt? How do they get this exemption?

Learn something new everyday. Thanks Dennis.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/EPA_Exempt_Stoves/

 

[John Ackerly]

You guys are a tough lot. OK, "duped" was a strong word, but I think stove manufacturers should avoid misleading language. Sure, maybe most folks do their homework, but lots don't and lots end up buying exempt stoves without really knowing what they are. If you google "exempt wood stoves" its kind of surprising how little info comes up, particularly from the manufacturers of exempt stoves, but also from HPBA and other institutions that could be helping folks get a better stove and have a better heating experience. Some exempt stoves are still being advertised as "EPA approved." Consumers should be able to rely on that statement and not check the stove against the EPA list of certified wood stoves. And saying "meets or exceeds EPA requirements" to describe exempt is just plain misleading in my book. Even though consumers should research that and learn that it means more or less the opposite, it still doesn't make it right for manufacturers to use that language. One of my favorites is a well-known distributor who says a stove is exempt because its low-maintainence. Anyway, on a more personal note, I was about to buy a Hearthstone Homestead but decided to stick with my Lopi Patriot for another year. Its been a great stove for 16 years and I'm kind of attached to it.

John

 

[begreen]

Yeah, there's a lot of BS in selling stoves. Most common are inflated firebox sizes and heating capacity. Happens in a lot of industries unfortunately. Buy a car or a computer lately?

 

[Ashful]

The common thread, begreen, is "once-in-a-lifetime purchases." Big ticket items like engagement rings, weddings, real estate transactions, and woodstoves are all laden with a disproportionately high level of "convenience" charges. People want to believe they're buying the best, and are not so savvy having (typically) not been thru this several times already, and so are easily pursuaded into spending a few extra -- often unnecessary -- dollars.