Napoleon NPI45 - Not feeding pellets (high limit failure)

[mmurphy384]

I read through the general troubleshooting posts and was hoping for a little additional clarification.

Last week, my Napoeon NPI 45 pellet stove stopped feeding pellets. I followed the owners manual to try to troubleshoot it.

1) Changed the fuse.
2) reset the high-limit swtich.
3) Vacuumed out the fire box and the little exhaust port nooks.
4) Tested the voltage going to the auger.
5) Checked the vacuum hose for blockage. I surmised that the auger motor died.
6) I vacummed out the vent tube (T connection) as much as I could.

I replaced the auger motor and patted myself on the back for a job well done. Within 60 minutes, the same thing happened. Everything has stopped and the #4 LED is lit up (indicating a high-limit failure). Each time I attempt to start it, no pellets move. I can press the auger button and see the LED light up . . but nothing moves.

I bypassed the highlimit switch just to see if I could get some action. . . . no dice. I removed the vacuum hose and checked for blockage. no dice. I tested the pressure switch and it clicked with small changes in pressure.

The owners manual suggests that repeated high-limit failures can be due to a dirty exhuast fan. This makes sense, but I'm curious how the high-limit failure is occurring when I've bypassed that limit. Does the fan have it's own over-heating sensor? Even so, I would think it would take a little while for that sensor to detect that it's overheating.

So . . I guess my questions would be:
#1: WHy would the high limit sensor continut to fail, even though I've bypassed it?

#2 My next step is to remove that fan/motor and clean it up. The owners manual suggest that I have a spare gasket handy. Is this a universal part that most hearth stores would carry (Napoleon part number: W290-0122)? I'm so eager to get this thing going again. If I can't find the exact gasket from a local store, should I consider changing out the fan altogether?


I appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I read through the general troubleshooting posts and was hoping for a little additional clarification.

Last week, my Napoeon NPI 45 pellet stove stopped feeding pellets. I followed the owners manual to try to troubleshoot it.

1) Changed the fuse.
2) reset the high-limit swtich.
3) Vacuumed out the fire box and the little exhaust port nooks.
4) Tested the voltage going to the auger.
5) Checked the vacuum hose for blockage. I surmised that the auger motor died.
6) I vacummed out the vent tube (T connection) as much as I could.

I replaced the auger motor and patted myself on the back for a job well done. Within 60 minutes, the same thing happened. Everything has stopped and the #4 LED is lit up (indicating a high-limit failure). Each time I attempt to start it, no pellets move. I can press the auger button and see the LED light up . . but nothing moves.

I bypassed the highlimit switch just to see if I could get some action. . . . no dice. I removed the vacuum hose and checked for blockage. no dice. I tested the pressure switch and it clicked with small changes in pressure.

The owners manual suggests that repeated high-limit failures can be due to a dirty exhuast fan. This makes sense, but I'm curious how the high-limit failure is occurring when I've bypassed that limit. Does the fan have it's own over-heating sensor? Even so, I would think it would take a little while for that sensor to detect that it's overheating.

So . . I guess my questions would be:
#1: WHy would the high limit sensor continut to fail, even though I've bypassed it?

#2 My next step is to remove that fan/motor and clean it up. The owners manual suggest that I have a spare gasket handy. Is this a universal part that most hearth stores would carry (Napoleon part number: W290-0122)? I'm so eager to get this thing going again. If I can't find the exact gasket from a local store, should I consider changing out the fan altogether?


I appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Mike

While a dirty exhaust fan can lead to a high limit trip, you are not likely to see that happen. The more likely failure indication with a dirty exhaust temperature related issue would be a loss of vacuum and even a smoke dump into the room the stove is in.

The most common hi limit problem is the convection (room) air fan failing or not being able to keep up with the heat being produced.

If I were going to play with a fan it would be the convection fan.

But before playing please return the stoves safeties to their original state.

Make certain that the hi temperature limit switch has been reset, if it is a manual reset it should be able to be pressed in a small amount and stay there.

Then please unplug the stove, wait 10 seconds, and plug it back in, wait 10 seconds and turn it on, run the stove no higher than heat range 2.

Make certain the convection blower turns on and stays on. Listen to the blowers you are trying to see if either one shuts off or stalls.

If the stove runs fine for an hour, raise the heat range setting to 3 and repeat.

Also please read the manual and see if there is a warning about running the stove in heat ranges above 3.

If the stove has the ability to have the convection fan placed in high speed and the stove dies at heat level 3 with a hi temperature shutdown. Reset the limit switch after the stove is cold, unplug wait 10 seconds, plug it back in wait 10 seconds, restart the stove in heat range 3 and as soon as it exits startup turn the fan on high.

I'm not familiar with the feed system on that stove, but it is not uncommon for hi limits to trip if the convection blower floats with the heat rage and the fuel being burned is better than what was used in testing the stove. This can be rectified by restricting the amount of fuel that the auger sees.

It is also common that you can not run a stove for very long in the high heat range settings.

If your convection fan is dirty or the air flow through the heat exchanger is blocked or partially blocked can cause this to occur.

If the convection blower's bearing or motor get to hot the thermal protection system in the motor will stall it, then the heat exchanger will get too hot causing the hi limit to trip.

 

[mmurphy384]

ok . this is a little embarrassing, but I hope it makes someone's day.


Having completely accepted the fact that the auger was functioning 100%, I never even considered it to be an issue. Instead, focusing my time on high limit switches, fans, etc.

I really didn't want to have to pull the unit out of the fireplace (again), but reluctantly did so . . .. only to learn that the auger motor slipped off of the auger. Guess I didn't tighten the lock screw enough Oy. We're back in action and I have resumed patting myself on my back. I'm going to have to tell my wife something better than this story, but I'll think of something!

I'm even going to order a couple of those gaskets to have on hand! Smart . . that's how I do things.

I thoroughly appreciate all of the posts in this forum. I'm sure I'll be back during my next meltdown. Thanks to anyone that even considered trying to help me.

Mike

 

[mmurphy384]

FYI - The high limit switch is back in place. . everyone can sleep in peace now!

 

[fevest]

Where is the high limit reset? I have the same stove and have the # 4 light flashing. Found it. My issue is the convection fan not wanting to start. Gave it a spin with finger and is running fine. Blew it out with compressed air. Have replaced that fan once due to bad bearings. Will get another as stove is still under warranty. Bearings seem to be good in the fan, guess bad spot on armature.

 

[mmurphy384]

It's been a while since I looked at it, but if you are standing in front of the stove, the high limit switch is on the top - right corner of the stove box. If you have an insert, you'll have to get behind it, of course. It has two wires going into it with a small button between them. One you know where it is, you don't even need to pull the unit from the fireplace. You can just reach into the control panel cut-out and feel for it.

The button that you press isn't all that impressive. In fact, it doesn't even give the sensation that you are pushing it, when you are pushing it. It's tiny. . the size of a match stick. Anyway, it's frowned upon to bypass the high-limit switch, but I used some copper wire to short the two connections. That will at least tell you that the high limit switch is working or not. You DON'T want to run the unit without the high-limit switch as that is the thing that will tell it to stop if it is overheating.

Lastly. . .I won't tell you how many times I tried to troubleshoot that problem. The error codes would routinely tell me that the high-limit swicth was failing. . . but. . . that was fine. In my case, the auger died.

Once I got past my fear of disconnecting things, and checking voltages, I found the unit incredibly easy to work on. I changed out all of the gaskets this year. I'm pretty sure I'll do all of my own maintenance on it, from now on.

Good luck.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Where is the high limit reset? I have the same stove and have the # 4 light flashing. Found it. My issue is the convection fan not wanting to start. Gave it a spin with finger and is running fine. Blew it out with compressed air. Have replaced that fan once due to bad bearings. Will get another as stove is still under warranty. Bearings seem to be good in the fan, guess bad spot on armature.

If that convection fan motor has oil ports it should be getting regular oiling.

 

[mmurphy384]

Now that I think about it. . . . the high limit switch is supposed to shut down the stove when it gets to hot. If your convention fan is never getting to a point where it is even turning on, it's because something else is going on . .. . . it's almost like it never gets hot enough for it to kick into gear.

I'm assuming that pellets are feeding into the pot and that everything else is working ok???

 

[Ron Tan]

Napoleon is terrible. NPI45 insert are terrible insert, they burn hot but break down alot as well. You problem is the convection blower. When the insert burn, it hit a certain temperature to cause the blower to turn on. When the blower don't turn on, it trip the high limit switch which cause the auger motor and insert to stop function. The #4 light would flash. If the Auger is dead, you would see the auger light but not pellet is being fed thru. I have both problem the past 2 months and my insert is only 8 month old. Call Napoleon, they are terrible at best. Customer care should be rename to customer displaced.
They keep on telling me to contact the dealer, but it's an online dealer. homeclick.com They are no better. Both companies are very good at ignoring customer.

I recommend people to stay away from Napoleon product all together. These Canadian friends are trouble. They costs too much and doesn't work properly.

If you have problem with Auger motor, look up Ebay for a guy name Jason Munson, make sure he drills a hole for the Napoleon NPI45, should be straight forward to replace. As far as the convection motor, you are about to drop $250. Hope this helps.

Ron

 

[Gopher69]

It's been a while since I looked at it, but if you are standing in front of the stove, the high limit switch is on the top - right corner of the stove box. If you have an insert, you'll have to get behind it, of course. It has two wires going into it with a small button between them. One you know where it is, you don't even need to pull the unit from the fireplace. You can just reach into the control panel cut-out and feel for it.

The button that you press isn't all that impressive. In fact, it doesn't even give the sensation that you are pushing it, when you are pushing it. It's tiny. . the size of a match stick. Anyway, it's frowned upon to bypass the high-limit switch, but I used some copper wire to short the two connections. That will at least tell you that the high limit switch is working or not. You DON'T want to run the unit without the high-limit switch as that is the thing that will tell it to stop if it is overheating.

Lastly. . .I won't tell you how many times I tried to troubleshoot that problem. The error codes would routinely tell me that the high-limit swicth was failing. . . but. . . that was fine. In my case, the auger died.

Once I got past my fear of disconnecting things, and checking voltages, I found the unit incredibly easy to work on. I changed out all of the gaskets this year. I'm pretty sure I'll do all of my own maintenance on it, from now on.

Good luck.

I have similiar issues with my Napolean NPI45, won't run !
Stove is second hand but only has about a dozen bags of pellets burned by original owner.

Here are stove's symptoms:
1. Red Power light goes on
2. Exhaust blower working
3.Convection blower not running(fan not spinning)
4.Auger light comes on every 10 seconds
5. Auger not dropping pellets !
6.Auger not turnng (I opened pellet bin and checked)
7.Fuse on panel ciuit board appears to be OK
8. High-limit switch not tripped (I checked and depressed to make sure)
9. Heat lelvel light on #3
10. Manual mode setting
11. Ignitor nozzle is glowing

Do I have a problem with the Auger motor?

Thanks
Gopher69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Could just be a loose set screw or a broken cotter pin that attaches the auger motor to the auger, or a jam in the auger flight.

 

[Gopher69]

Could just be a loose set screw or a broken cotter pin that attaches the auger motor to the auger, or a jam in the auger flight.

Didn't check the Set screw..... But I was able to see the cotter pin, and it's fine not broken !
Confused here..... Isn't the Set screw and Cotter pin which holds the Auger in place the same?

Worse case senario, I will have to dis-mantle the Auger components to check for a jam !
Have never done this before? When I do this, do you think it will it require a new gasket of any type to be replaced?
I wouldn't think so, because it's not something that needs to have a seal for any purpose that I know, in order to operate properly or safely.....

Your tthoughts are greatly appreciated !

Gopher69

 

[heat seeker]

Is voltage getting to the motor?

 

[Gopher69]

Is voltage getting to the motor?

Any idea how one checks voltage to Auger motor on Napolean NPI45? And what that voltage should be?

Thanks
GOPHER69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Didn't check the Set screw..... But I was able to see the cotter pin, and it's fine not broken !
Confused here..... Isn't the Set screw and Cotter pin which holds the Auger in place the same?

Worse case senario, I will have to dis-mantle the Auger components to check for a jam !
Have never done this before? When I do this, do you think it will it require a new gasket of any type to be replaced?
I wouldn't think so, because it's not something that needs to have a seal for any purpose that I know, in order to operate properly or safely.....

Your tthoughts are greatly appreciated !

Gopher69

Depends upon how your stove was actually put together, my unit (not the same stove as yours) didn't use the cotter/hitch pin arrangement, more recent versions of the auger system (for the same stove) do.

Some auger systems do indeed use a gasket, more likely should, some use a sealant(not my idea of a nice thing to do), some stoves also allow the auger flight cover to be removed in order to clear a jam, I don't recall if yours does.

The auger motors due fail after awhile, usually because of repeated jams, but gear motors also have been known to suffer from out of the box and not running.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Any idea how one checks voltage to Auger motor on Napolean NPI45? And what that voltage should be?

Thanks
GOPHER69

Across the motor motor terminals, likely it should be 120 volts ac. There are stoves (not yours) that have DC motors and such.

The vacuum switch must also close for power to get to the auger.

 

[Gopher69]

Across the motor motor terminals, likely it should be 120 volts ac. There are stoves (not yours) that have DC motors and such.

The vacuum switch must also close for power to get to the auger.

OK so performed the following tests.......
I bypassed the high-limit switch using a jumper wire between 2 connecting lead. No change, pellets still not feeding.
I disconnected the connection leads to the Auger motor and connected a meter on each lead. Got 120v strong.
This leads me to believe that the Auger motor is getting the power OK, and the Auger motor may be DOA !

Didn't check the vacume switch yet.... Is that done in the same way with a meter? 120V?

Thoughts appreciated !

Thanks Gopher69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

OK so performed the following tests.......
I bypassed the high-limit switch using a jumper wire between 2 connecting lead. No change, pellets still not feeding.
I disconnected the connection leads to the Auger motor and connected a meter on each lead. Got 120v strong.
This leads me to believe that the Auger motor is getting the power OK, and the Auger motor may be DOA !

Didn't check the vacume switch yet.... Is that done in the same way with a meter? 120V?

Thoughts appreciated !

Thanks Gopher69

Or your linkage to the auger is not there.

If you have 120 volts on the auger motor and it the auger doesn't turn the problem is the motor or the coupling that joins the motor to the auger or something is jammed along the auger. Those are your choices since the vacuum switch must be closed for the 120 to appear at the auger motor.

 

[Gopher69]

Or your linkage to the auger is not there.

If you have 120 volts on the auger motor and it the auger doesn't turn the problem is the motor or the coupling that joins the motor to the auger or something is jammed along the auger. Those are your choices since the vacuum switch must be closed for the 120 to appear at the auger motor.

Thanks SmokeyTheBear. greatly appreciate your feedback !

I guess my next test and review will be to actually disconnect the Auger from the Auger motor and check the tunnel shaft for a jam. If Auger is not jammed, I'll assume (I hate that word), that my Auger motor is toast !

If that be the case, does anyone on this Forum have a reputable source for stove parts, which they would reccomned?

Thanks,
Gopher69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks SmokeyTheBear. greatly appreciate your feedback !

I guess my next test and review will be to actually disconnect the Auger from the Auger motor and check the tunnel shaft for a jam. If Auger is not jammed, I'll assume (I hate that word), that my Auger motor is toast !

If that be the case, does anyone on this Forum have a reputable source for stove parts, which they would reccomned?

Thanks,
Gopher69

If you have the motor out you can verify if it is functioning all it needs is a source of power.

I also want to mention that the auger has to turn in the correct direction for it to work in your stove. Sometimes the wrong motor gets shipped and so forth. Most of the auger motors can be easily reversed if that turns out to be the case.

There are several threads on here with a graphic description of how to do that. Here is one https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...1-need-to-reverse-rotation.47549/#post-595725

 

[Gopher69]

If you have the motor out you can verify if it is functioning all it needs is a source of power.

I also want to mention that the auger has to turn in the correct direction for it to work in your stove. Sometimes the wrong motor gets shipped and so forth. Most of the auger motors can be easily reversed if that turns out to be the case.

There are several threads on here with a graphic description of how to do that. Here is one https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...1-need-to-reverse-rotation.47549/#post-595725

To SmokeyTheBear or any other Forum members monitoring this post......
To test the Auger motor disconnected from the Auger screw, can I do as follows:
If I have the Auger motor out of stove with the Auger removed, can I just take say a lamp cord
and attach the stirpped wire ends to motor terminals, then plug into other end into wall outlet?
If it doesn't run, I'd assume that the motor is dead ? Does that sound corect?
I've also heard though that the bushings or gears in the Auger motor could be bound up preventing it to turn?
Thoughts on that, and if the case could it be fixed, without replacing entire auger motor?

One last thought, not to change topic here......
I have a 4" stainless steel liner, from where the pellet stove connect, which exytends to the top of my brick,
clay-lined flu chimney. At the top of chimney, SS liner has a flue cover with rain cap.
That said, would it be at all possible to covert from pellet to wood stove?
I know most wood stove venting applications call for a 6" pipe, I suspect that is standard for venting?
Would my 4" SS line be acceptable for wood stove application? Just asking?

Thanks

Gopher69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

To SmokeyTheBear or any other Forum members monitoring this post......
To test the Auger motor disconnected from the Auger screw, can I do as follows:
If I have the Auger motor out of stove with the Auger removed, can I just take say a lamp cord
and attach the stirpped wire ends to motor terminals, then plug into other end into wall outlet?
If it doesn't run, I'd assume that the motor is dead ? Does that sound corect?
I've also heard though that the bushings or gears in the Auger motor could be bound up preventing it to turn?
Thoughts on that, and if the case could it be fixed, without replacing entire auger motor?

One last thought, not to change topic here......
I have a 4" stainless steel liner, from where the pellet stove connect, which exytends to the top of my brick,
clay-lined flu chimney. At the top of chimney, SS liner has a flue cover with rain cap.
That said, would it be at all possible to covert from pellet to wood stove?
I know most wood stove venting applications call for a 6" pipe, I suspect that is standard for venting?
Would my 4" SS line be acceptable for wood stove application? Just asking?

Thanks

Gopher69

First if the gears are bound up or stripped in the auger motor gear case, that can be repaired however that is not a job that most people can tackle.

Your description of the hot wiring for testing the motor is correct, that is called a suicide cord because those exposed wires can kill.. Be sure to insulate around them and keep your hads away before you plug the cord into the outlet to do the test. People sometimes make up such a cord with the correct ends on them to safely use this method.


In any event auger motors are not really that expensive.

As for that liner being usable for a wood stove. I would suspect it wouldn't fit the air flow requirements for starters when spotless let alone after you lit off a wood fire. I haven't looked into cord wood burning devices in a very long while. I stopped burning cord wood and coal back in the 80s.

 

[dawg1419]

Im gonna get parts from here when needed
http://www.pelletstovepro.com/category/augers/

 

[Gopher69]

First if the gears are bound up or stripped in the auger motor gear case, that can be repaired however that is not a job that most people can tackle.

Your description of the hot wiring for testing the motor is correct, that is called a suicide cord because those exposed wires can kill.. Be sure to insulate around them and keep your hads away before you plug the cord into the outlet to do the test. People sometimes make up such a cord with the correct ends on them to safely use this method.


In any event auger motors are not really that expensive.

As for that liner being usable for a wood stove. I would suspect it wouldn't fit the air flow requirements for starters when spotless let alone after you lit off a wood fire. I haven't looked into cord wood burning devices in a very long while. I stopped burning cord wood and coal back in the 80s.

To SmokeyTheBear.....
I haven't yet tested Auger motor outside the stove.... but before I do that I would like to test the 'hooper lid switch' !
Is there a quick way to bypasss this switch to test?

Thanks,
Gopher69

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Jump it.