Need help with Summers Heat 55-SHP10L smoke leak

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nelson6972

New Member
Nov 28, 2010
7
Central MA
I recently purchased & installed the summers heat stove. It fills the room with smoke when lit. The smoke seems to be coming from behind the hinges of the hopper door. But I dont think the smoke is coming from the hopper itself. Any ideas of where to start with this problem would be appreciated

Thanks
 
Have you looked at your exhaust connections in the dark while it is backlit?

Did you install the OAK and is the hooper closed and latched?

Can you post pictures of your exhaust venting and describe the venting from the stove out to the vent cap?
 
The OAK is installed & the hopper lid is closed & latched. I have not looked at the connections in the dark, but I did seal all the connections with 3M fire barrier sealant. For the venting I used the simpson duravent through wall kit. The venting starts with the adapter into the "T with clean out". The "T" connects to 2 12" pipes & 1 adjustable pipe. The adjustable pipe connects to a 90 degree elbow then to a 12" pipe that goes through the wall thimble. THen into another 90 degree elbow to one more 12" lenght that connects to the cap. Ihope that makes sense to people. I'm unable to do pictures at the moment...

I hope this helps
 
Nelson, I couldn't figure out why the pipe went up, then out, and then up again....was this necessary for some sort of clearance inside or outside? It would seem much simpler to either go straight out through the wall behind the stove & up, or up & then out.....either of those would eliminate one of the 90's you have to use now.

In addition, even though you didn't say how long your adjustable pipe is, even without that in the equation, your stove pipe EVL is well over 18.....did you upgrade to 4" pipe?
 
The stove is in the basement & below ground level, i went up to get over the foundation of the house. Then up again to get away from the ground outside. could you explain why 4" pipe would be needed for an 18" EVL?
 
What is the temperature rating on the goop you used and was that goop recommended by Simpson?

I didn't see any mention of using it on flue pipe.
 
nelson6972 said:
The stove is in the basement & below ground level, i went up to get over the foundation of the house. Then up again to get away from the ground outside. could you explain why 4" pipe would be needed for an 18" EVL?

The combustion fans on these stoves can only overcome so much air movement restriction, 15 feet worth of 3" is about the limit for most (but not all) stoves the higher the EVL the harder it is to evacuate the smoke and other combustion by products from the stove. If you can't blow it out the vent it will find another exit.

Frequently it will exit the hopper, air intake, air wash, etc ..... You need to make sure the air paths are sealed and not so restrictive the air flow so the blower can do its job.

Now increasing the diameter of the pipe decreases the air flow restriction by increasing the cross sectional area of the flue.

You need to consult the installation manual for your stove and install accordingly.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
nelson6972 said:
The stove is in the basement & below ground level, i went up to get over the foundation of the house. Then up again to get away from the ground outside. could you explain why 4" pipe would be needed for an 18" EVL?

You need to consult the installation manual for your stove and install accordingly.

Page 4 of your owners manual:

#11 "Horizontal runs should not exceed four feet (4’) with a maximum vertical flue height of thirty five
feet (35’). At fifteen feet (15’), the pipe should be increased to four inch (4”) pellet vent pipe"
 
nelson6972 said:
The stove is in the basement & below ground level, i went up to get over the foundation of the house. Then up again to get away from the ground outside. could you explain why 4" pipe would be needed for an 18" EVL?

In addition to the question about why a 4" exhaust which I answered above (or actually your owners manual answered), a question about your basement install....is the basement finished (insulated) or unfinished?
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
What is the temperature rating on the goop you used and was that goop recommended by Simpson?

I didn't see any mention of using it on flue pipe.

can't find it right now, will look tomorrow. but a guy at lowes recomended it.
 
imacman said:
Nelson, I couldn't figure out why the pipe went up, then out, and then up again....was this necessary for some sort of clearance inside or outside? It would seem much simpler to either go straight out through the wall behind the stove & up, or up & then out.....either of those would eliminate one of the 90's you have to use now.

In addition, even though you didn't say how long your adjustable pipe is, even without that in the equation, your stove pipe EVL is well over 18.....did you upgrade to 4" pipe?


I am not sure where 18 feet came from. I only used 4 12 inch pipes, 1 adjustble @ 17 inches, 2 90 degrees & the cap.

Would removing one of the 90 degrees help?
 
imacman said:
nelson6972 said:
The stove is in the basement & below ground level, i went up to get over the foundation of the house. Then up again to get away from the ground outside. could you explain why 4" pipe would be needed for an 18" EVL?

In addition to the question about why a 4" exhaust which I answered above (or actually your owners manual answered), a question about your basement install....is the basement finished (insulated) or unfinished?

the basement is partially finished. The exposed foundation runs about halfway up then the rest is insulated & blue boarded, but not painted
 
Someone correct me on this but the 'T' isn't that considered a 90 degree elbow ?? So that would be '3' 90 degree elbows..
 
nelson6972 said:
SmokeyTheBear said:
What is the temperature rating on the goop you used and was that goop recommended by Simpson?

I didn't see any mention of using it on flue pipe.

can't find it right now, will look tomorrow. but a guy at lowes recomended it.

You do understand that the folks at Lowes generally do not install the stoves they sell, right?

The install manual and the vent manufacturer tell you what you MUST use.

Not only that but failure to follow the installation instructions can cause loss of life and property.

Some other consequences of not following the instructions is:

Loss of homeowner's insurance.
Foreclosure of your mortgage.

Even if you have homeowners, failure to install properly gives them an out and you aren't likely to get paid if something happens.
 
When calculating vent length each 90 degree elbow or T is 5' EVL, 45 degree elbows are 3' EVL, horizontal runs (which btw have to have an upward pitch as they go towards the termination) is 1' EVL per foot of run, vertical pipe runs are .5' per foot of vertical rise.

When your total EVL exceeds 15' the piping should be 4" there are a few exceptions but even here the manual will take that into consideration.

There is also usually a hard limit on the amount of horizontal run in the system as such runs are severely restrictive of air flow. Horizontal run even if within limits should be a sort as possible as they cause a lot of the fly ash to settle in them and eventually making even a within limits EVL venting system to no longer be.

You also must use the proper termination cap and not place the termination into the prevailing wind in your area.

Remember if the smoke doesn't exit the building you might not either.
 
gfreek said:
Someone correct me on this but the 'T' isn't that considered a 90 degree elbow ?? So that would be '3' 90 degree elbows..

Yes you are correct, it is a 90 degree elbow and perhaps worse (installed horizontally instead of the normal way they get used).

He now has the required information to do his own add'em up.
 
I have a question for someone who owns the stove. Should there be a draft of hot air coming from below the combustion blower or out the top of the rear access panel.

Thanks
 
gfreek said:
Someone correct me on this but the 'T' isn't that considered a 90 degree elbow ?? So that would be '3' 90 degree elbows..

Yes, it is.

His pipe setup has:

(3) 90's = EVL of 15
(3) vertical 12" pipes = EVL of 1.5
(1) vertical adjustable 17" = EVL (approx) .75
(1) horiz. 12" = EVL of 1

So, 15 + 1.5 + .75 + 1 = EVL of 18.5

This calls for 4" pipe as per his owners manual.
 
nelson6972 said:
I have a question for someone who owns the stove. Should there be a draft of hot air coming from below the combustion blower or out the top of the rear access panel.

Thanks

I currently have the rear panel removed and I can feel some air movement near the rear of the combustion blower.
 
imacman said:
gfreek said:
Someone correct me on this but the 'T' isn't that considered a 90 degree elbow ?? So that would be '3' 90 degree elbows..

Yes, it is.

His pipe setup has:

(3) 90's = EVL of 15
(3) vertical 12" pipes = EVL of 1.5
(1) vertical adjustable 17" = EVL (approx) .75
(1) horiz. 12" = EVL of 1

So, 15 + 1.5 + .75 + 1 = EVL of 18.5

This calls for 4" pipe as per his owners manual.

What this means is since the venting is now the wrong size the poor exhaust blower has to withstand a lot more heat and will likely fail earlier or thermal off (stall) leading to other problems or such things as a lot warmer air being felt around the combustion blower etc....

The combustion blowers reach their limit at 475°F IIRC when Mike Holton from England Stove Works told a member here to get a good fan blowing on one that was thermaling off (and that wasn't even an England Stove).
 
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