need to test my soldering skills (baseboard)...ideas needed...

[88rxn/a]

when i solder the connections onto the heating elements id like to pressure test them somehow before i place them in the house. has anyone made little contraptions how to do this?
i will have 3/4 PEX barbed fittings on both ends.

thanks,
tom

 

[Eric Johnson]

Any way that you can get a hose bib or boiler drain screwed into the line you want to test will work. Just hook up a garden hose and open the bleeder until it's full. Then close the bleeder and see if your joints hold. To avoid soldering a female threaded connector on to each element, you can probably rig something up with a piece of hose and a couple of hose clamps. But if you're going into pex, just clamp a threaded 3/4-inch female adapter onto it and screw in the hose bib.

 

[Jersey Devil]

Hi,

what I did was to solder in a 1/2 sweat X 1/2" NPT X 1/2 sweat tee into the different parts of the system when I put it in. Then I have a gauge and air pressure valve that is set up to screw into the NPT leg of the tee. After the test passes I let the air out and unscrew the test gauge. Then I screw in a taped plug into the NPT leg. Get the picture?? I have the setup somewhere in my shop and will send you a pic if you send me your email addy to mstadulis at comcast dot net.

Mike in NJ

 

[timberr]

When I put together my secondary loop I hooked it up to a garden hose, closed all the ball valves and zone valves and was pleased to see I had NO LEAKS. It was a different story when 180* water ran through, I found I had 4 leaks then. Luckly they were all easily fixed.

I am thinking that pressurizing with air compressor maybe better.

Good luck!

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I think the issue is that he will have pex barbs at each end of the runs of baseboard, rather than anything a hose can easily be attached to.

As far as how to test that, I really don't have any suggestions short of just connecting the pex and doing the test at that point. Of course, you can't re-solder with pex attached, so that does create an issue.

Best bet is to do a really good job soldering, so that it works right, the first time. If you doubt your soldering skills, maybe check around to see if you have any expert solderers among your friends/family/co-workers, etc.? If all else fails, and you really don't think you can do it, you could always pay someone to do just that.

Joe

 

[88rxn/a]

thanks for all the hints.
i guess this was moved to the boiler room? i wasnt sure where to put this thread. yes, both ends will have 3/4 barbed PEX fittings soldered to them. id really like to fill them up with air before i put them in the system but if i cant i can always hook a garden hose to them. i can somewhat solder so maybe ill practic on other things i have first.
thanks all for your help. they are great ideas!
jersey devil:
i can picture what your sayin and think i might try that!
thanks again!

 

[timberr]

88rxn/a

Here is a hint, sweating is an art. The key is make sure you have good heat, if you don't already have a MIP tourch do yourself a favor and get one (they use the Yellow cylinders). With the PEX fittings I found that if I concentrated on getting good even heat on the fitting intself then touch your solder to the joint if it doesn't imedieatly flow pull back and work the heat. Re-apply the solder, remeber that solder flows TO the heat use it to your advantage. Once you have a nice even bead all around (you should have a 45* bevel). Now the trick, apply your wet cloth and move it slowly, you will notice the the solder turn from shiny to a dull color. If you have a nice uniform surface all around you have a good joint.

Good luck!

 

[timberr]

I meant a MAP torch not MIP. MAP gas burns hotter then propane.

 

[in hot water]

test with air, if you are unsure of your soldering ability.
Buy these test "blocks" at most plumbing and HVAC suppliers. Add the pex adapter and crimp it into the system.

It's much easier to fix a leak, should you have one by releasing air and not worrying about getting every drop of water out, especially with level baseboard.

For soldering, clean every fitting and the end of the tube, even if it is new. A fitting brush and scotch pads work best. Small amount of flux, don't overdo the flux. Just enough heat to melt the solder. Pull the heat away and keep trying the solder to the joint. once it flows around, no more heat!

If you over heat and the flux turns black, stop, disassemble, clean, and start over.

Most folks over flux and over heat when soldering.

hr

 

[Plumbit]

I use a product called a Shark Bite fitting that is reuseable and useable on both PEX and copper they come in 1/2 and 3/4, as coulpings,Tees,and caps. Just make up a test setup like the one shown in the previose post an shark bite it to you piping,. shark bite a cap on the other side and use air only. 50/60 PSI is good (flux when it cools off can seal a bad joint until hot water melts it out.) Don't test against the boiler relief valve (30LBS) The big box may have the Shark Bites in stock. I don't recomend using these fittings in a inacessable spot. As for soldering clean pipe, clean fitting, even heat, and no water and your good to go!

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

For soldering, clean every fitting and the end of the tube, even if it is new.

Just quoting this again.

Clean.

Every.

Fitting.

And.

Pipe.

It doesn't matter how shiny and new it is. Clean it. Use a good brush, and emory cloth (the open mesh stuff) or the scotch pad that hr mentioned. Don't use sandpaper (the copper filings will clog it, and then it will just smear the oils/waxes/etc. on the pipe around, instead of actually removing them).

Use a torch sized appropriately to the job. Any of the major torch manufacturers should list what size pipe each torch is designed for. A torch matched to the job makes it much easier.

Don't try to solder when there is water in the pipe. Find out where the water is coming from, and isolate it. I have a Lenox AA900 (1/2" air-acetylene swirl) tip that I use to solder when isolating the trickle of water is not possible. That's rated to braze copper pipe up to two inches. It has all it can do to solder 3/4" when there is water trickling through it - boiling water while simultaneously heating the pipe to 700+ degrees takes a lot of btu's. Don't try to solder pipe with a normal torch if there is even a trickle of water - it's most likely just going to leak.

The core of the flame is the hot part. That's the part you use, not the "halo" around it. The idea is to heat the pipe up as quickly as possible, get it soldered, and get the heat away. Heating it slowly will burn away the flux before the pipe gets hot enough to solder.

Do not heat closed ball valves that have water in them. In other words, if you turn off a ball valve in a full pipe, there is water trapped in the core of the ball. Use high heat to solder and get done as quickly as possible, because valves can quite literally explode if the water turns to super-heated steam while trapped in the ball. I've pulled the shrapnel out of a co-worker's face as a result of that. This goes back to using the right torch for the job.

And, by the way, clean every fitting and every piece of pipe. Even if they are new.

Joe

 

[88rxn/a]

WOW!
thanks so much guys!
really!
more to it than i anticipated.
im going to LOWES and other places to find those parts and that "block"
thanks joe for pointing out the sandpaper. i was going to use this to clean the pipe. it makes sense on what your saying.
ill keep you guys updated when i do this.

 

[rowerwet]

I made a shell type HX from 3/4" and 1 1/4" copper pipe. to test it I put shark bites on the ends and attached some cutoffs from 1" pex runs I filled it with water and put my thumb over one end, I then blew as hard as I could into the other end ( I wonder how many psi that was) no leaks! I installed the HX in my heat system and it never leaked.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Even a small amount of moisture in the piping can turn to steam, which will try to escape through your new joint, if it's the last one being soldered. Try to open a valve or some other route for any residual steam to escape into if there's water around.

88rxb--that EKO fund is growing nicely.

 

[88rxn/a]

Even a small amount of moisture in the piping can turn to steam, which will try to escape through your new joint, if it's the last one being soldered. Try to open a valve or some other route for any residual steam to escape into if there's water around.

88rxb--that EKO fund is growing nicely.

yes, its slowly getting there. it should jump up quite a bit in the coming months. i wish my knowledge for hydronic systems would grow as fast!!
my goal is to finance as little as possible. Ebay is a wonderful thing!

 

[88rxn/a]

ok, after thinking about this i finally figured it out.....stopped at NAPA, yes NAPA and LOWES and this is what i come up with...

the end is just a 3/4 plug and i used 3 constant torque hose clamps (if anyone cares par # 705-1500)
2 were used on this end.

the other end looks like this:

you can see the air bubbles from the soap on one of the fittings. more tape was used after this pic,
from LOWES:
1/8 air valve
1/8 to 1/2 adapter
1/2 to 3/4 adapter
then the plastic is a "push adapter"
you can use this on plastic, PVC, copper, pex and so forth. has a little clip to remove when done and makes a good seal. it wont be used in the system anywhere but it worked good for what i needed it to do.
total cost: $35.00 to me: assurance knowing i wont fill my rooms with water,priceless


here is the final result:

 

[88rxn/a]

so apparently this forum doesn't like photobucket?

 

[88rxn/a]

now that i figured how to post pics directly on here i figured id try again...
once i finish the loop ill buy another plastic fitting from lowes and attach a pressure gauge to better readings...