Neighbor hating on my scrounge

[[email protected]]

I have 7 acres of community property behind my house. I had been approached 3 years ago by my Home owner's association VP and he gave me permission to remove anything dead or dying.
I have been removing downed tree's as I have had time. Since is in my back yard it's as easy as driving the tractor and cart down the walking path an bucking up anything I want.
It's been great!! now one of my neighbor's tells me that one of my other neighbor's was sending an email's around to other proprty owner's stating that I am killing the wooded land and that the dead tree's are good for the animals.

Is there any truth to this? It was my belive that it was best to remove the downed tree's.
Most of what I remove is on the ground with no bark or branches so it's easy taking and no messing with branches.

I live in a higher end custom home subdivision where most of my neighbor's are double my age and have had their homes built by a guy like me. So they have the time to groan about everything.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I leave many standing and down dead trees as critter homes. Bugs that live in them are food for some birds as well- I love seeing the woodpeckers, etc. Not all of them have equal value in this respect. I leave some downed trees to rot and replenish the carbon base as well (good for the soil).

 

[shawneyboy]

Although some standing dead timber and some downed rotting wood is a good thing, part of forest management is to remove some of those dead, and declining trees so that the smaller trees can grow.

Shawn

 

[brianbeech]

...stating that I am killing the wooded land and that the dead tree's are good for the animals...

Removing dead trees does not kill the wooded land. That's a dumb idea. I've seen wooded areas that have every dead tree removed and the wooded land still exists - think higher end golf courses with wooded areas.

Good for the animals sure is broad. I'd ask them to be a little more specific and then see if they want these animals around. Woodpeckers can surely survive without a few dead trees. They'll knock away at live trees too.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I have found that downed trees don't often stop small ones from growing in (they seed thick, and the tree doesn't take up so much space). In fact- they sometimes limit where deer will go and help some small trees get a foothold where they would otherwise have been browsed to death. Some places- there's so much downed wood that it's a fire hazard, but they're not a problem per se otherwise.

 

[zzr7ky]

"...my neighbor tells me that one of my other neighbor’s was sending an email’s around to other proprty owner’s stating that I am killing the wooded land and that the dead tree’s are good for the animals."


Hi -

Obviously this person has some issues....

I cut several church properties. Similar issues. I found that Taking the situation in the best possible light the following process is fairly effective:

1 - Find any credible source (DNR game habitat website, etc.. that suggests brush piles, and some dead standing for habitat improvement.
2 - Review with the person who has authority on the property, and come to general agreement
3 - Thanking the complainer for their coment/suggestion and a warm and enthusiastic manner being sure to note that the habitat quality should continue to improve.

This type of thing have happened severl times. Most situations were quickly cooled down. One of the individuals was genuinely concerned and is at least not a continuing problem. This person will 'admire' an occasional tree that has obvious nest holes in it, and I'll generally offer to 'keep an eye on it' unless it is dangerous, threatening buildings, etc...

Edited to add: Removing heavy/tall fuel from properties is a big public service in some areas were wild fires are an issue...
ATB,
Mike

 

[Lynch]

i wont tell you my exact words for this person but i would say in short for them to piss off
you got permission thats all you need they dont own the land so piss off!

 

[moosetrek]

I doubt you want to get into a back-and-forth debate on something both sides could offer documentation in support of, or opposed to. I'm sure there are studies that will conclude both ways, and a "my science vs your science" debate will have no good ending. There was a resort area in CA - aroud Lake Tahoe - a few years back where the planning authority (think HOA on a big scale) prevented removal of trees because some homeowners liked them too much. Next forest fire, many high-end homes burned due to excessive fuels accumulation and the same homeowners were complaining that the planning agency should have done something.

My 2 cents - the VP (representing those same neighbors) approached you, and authorized you to collect the wood, you've done so responsibly with little to no resource damage, and should continue to do so if you want until the HOA says no. You might want to dig up some basic info such as local requirements to reduce fuels for fire prevention, and maybe the local wildland fire unit's opinion in an email would help to respond to the neighbors with some useful information. Also, invite them to help you for a day so they can see the reality of what you're doing and why you're doing it. Good luck!

 

[3fordasho]

Every neighborhood has one or two of these busybodys. Along the rear of my property (and my neighbors) runs a 15' wide city alley, then a chainlink fence and behind that overgrown quarry property. Every year I go into the quarry directly behind this fence and clean up the buckthorn and a few junk trees to let the good stuff get ahead. This also maintains my evening viewing of sunsets.
Neighbor to the south does the exact same thing. Neighbor to the north got all bent out of shape that I was going back there and cleaning out the crap. I quess they never want to see the sun from their rear deck. The quarry has never said boo and probably appreciates the fact that I clean out stuff that could take out their fence. Now I just try to do it when these neighbors are not around and if they are I just tell them to do what you have to do and call who you have to call because I'm not anywhere close to touching anything on your property and I'm going to keep on cleaning it out as I see fit. Now if the quarry has a problem with it I'll be out of there right now.

 

[brianbeech]

zzr7ky and moosetrek both make good points. I guess you could always take to approach to do the following:

1. find out who is complaining
2. leave a downed tree or two directly in their line of sight

With 7 acres, you surely could leave one or two. That way you make that person happy and you continue to be able to scrounge.

Just know full well that some people won't be happy with anything and even that may not suffice. In the event of that, I'd just be overly-nice and overly-accommodating while still scrounging. You know, don't run the saws close to sun-up or sun-down. Try to keep tractors away from the individuals house...etc.

 

[TreePointer]

It's one thing to get permission from one person, but you're dealing with a community/HOA, and that's usually a different beast.

Yes, if you remove all deadfall and dead standing wood, it will indeed affect the ecology of the forest and the habitat for all types of critters, both the desirable and the "nuisance" creatures.

It really all depends on what the HOA wasnts out of their forest. If they want a wooded area for walks and shade (like a city park or golf course), then taking most of the dead wood will not matter. If they want something like a nature preserve for observation, bird watching, etc., then you need to leave some dead standing trees and some deadfall.

 

[richg]

As stated in another thread, this sounds like a perfect situation for Liquid Ass. Yes, the stuff does exist.

 

[bogydave]

Get out there & get as much as you can before they change the rules on you.
Drag the good logs to your yard.
OR
Be like many of us & have to scrounge, buy, and/or drive several miles to get free wood.
Get log lengths in the front yard & run the saw at the times neighbors know your cutting, & it's your wood.
New rule will may come up, no wood cutting in front yards. LOL

 

[CaddyUser]

Just another thought - by maintaining good forestry management practices (removal of dead trees), you are reducing the fireload in the area, and to that end, reducing the risk of a forest fire.....

 

[Thistle]

I try to leave 2-3 snags per acre for various wildlife if possible.Also pile any brush/twigs for cover for small mammals like rabbits etc.Any deadfall or leaners I'll clean up first,if the ground is firm or not deep snow.Those standing are left until the other stuff is either caught up or I run low on supply.Wood keeps better up in the air,3-4 yrs is common unless high winds or heavy snow/ice bring it down.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Mostly it's the standing dead trees that provide a lot of value for wildlife homes. Generally speaking though, a guy can cut and heat his home without felling EVERY dead tree. Just leave some. There will be new dead trees next year.

I knocked over a really punky snag once, just pushed it over by hand, and there were a bunch of flying squirrels nested in it. They found their way into another tree.

Just mention to the friendly neighbor that it is more sustainable to heat with locally grown fuel than to increase our dependence on foreign propane or devastate Alaska for the petrol to make propane. Actually the more local an economy is the more sustainable it is. When you think of any environmental disaster it almost always involves exporting a resource out of the region.

 

[bogydave]

Mostly it's the standing dead trees that provide a lot of value for wildlife homes. Generally speaking though, a guy can cut and heat his home without felling EVERY dead tree. Just leave some. There will be new dead trees next year.

I knocked over a really punky snag once, just pushed it over by hand, and there were a bunch of flying squirrels nested in it. They found their way into another tree.

Just mention to the friendly neighbor that it is more sustainable to heat with locally grown fuel than to increase our dependence on foreign propane or devastate Alaska for the petrol to make propane. Actually the more local an economy is the more sustainable it is. When you think of any environmental disaster it almost always involves exporting a resource out of the region.

Caught the dig.
No fish bitting today :lol:
watching the iditarod online

 

[pen]

It depends on your perspective. Ask my buddy, and all dead and dying should do as such because they are great grouse / rabbit / small game in general habitat. He burns wood but he always leaves the tops in a NEAT pile for this purpose. So long as you aren't taking / chipping every last scrap you are doing the same minus the woodpecker habitat (dead standing trunks).

Ask my father, all all dead standing must come down. Of course that might have to do with the fact that when he was 8 him and his buddy were riding bikes and a large maple branch fell out of a tree and killed his friend. I can only imagine the impact that would make on an 8 year old.

So, if I were you'd I'd combine both stories saying you are protecting them from the dead fall, you are helping the rabbits / grouse by making cover w/ the branches from the tops and the only thing you are messing with are the wood peckers so I'd say ignore that little tidbit and see if you are called on it.

pen

 

[quads]

I generally leave the dead standing until they tip over on their own. Then I cut them up for firewood, leaving the root-ball, branches, bark, and whatever where it lays. Except like now when there is too much snow to find and/or get to the trees already laying on the ground. Now I cut dead standing as long as it doesn't look like it's being used for a house by woodpeckers or some other critters. There are plenty of live/green trees that they can use too.

Yes, the critters of the forest need places to live. But one thing your neighbor is forgetting is that it works both ways; us people need to live in this world too, and heat our homes, and survive...... The critters of the forest have to share with us too!

 

[kettensäge]

I cut all standing dead but 1 or 2 and most of what is flat on the ground, unless it is starting to rot. Those make better termite and ant nests than my house, and I never cut anything live unless it is leaning towards the house.

I have noticed a remarkable differnce in my small 1.2 acre lot with this approach. Former owner never cut anything on the lot. Now there is a lot less brush and fuel for a fire. You can actually pick out the property line by the appearance of the lot. Never noticed any difference in wildlife, if anything there is more, or I can see it better without all the clutter.

As Caddyuser said, the fire risk may be enough to pursuade your neighbors to allow you to continue your efforts in making the community a safer place.

I would continue to cut until the HOA or whomever gave you permission tells you to stop. Many people have too much time on their hands. Neighbors sending e mails doesn't mean you can't cut wood anymore and the governing body most likely understands the benefit from what you are doing already. They may be the ones that will tell the neighbors to butt out.

 

[nate379]

If it's dead and standing I cut it. The last one I didn't get to in time fell over my tablesaw I had out in the yard. Left it out for a couple days (middle of a project)

 

[firefighterjake]

Neighbor is partly correct . . . but as others have said . . . it depends on what critters you want to attract.

Me . . . I generally leave a number of downed wood on the ground for the critters and I leave piled brush around as well . . . then again I have the luxury of being able to pick and choose and cut live trees . . .

 

[[email protected]]

Since this post it's has gotten quite interesting.

The Vp of our HOA addressed the issue and told him that he had asked he to help as he knew I had the ability and that I had been given permission.

This was not good enough for this friendly neighbor so he called the county forester and I was summoned to meet with the 2 of them to show the him what I have done. I was like o man here we go this guy it going to be a total tree hugger.

I first met my neighbor
He wasgoing out of his way to be insulting to me.
I had introduced my self with my propper name and was overly polite to him calling him by his name or sir. He then started to referring to me as kid. 1 st I let it go, 2nd time I informed him of my name, 3rd time I told him I had no problem beating up a 65 year old man. He went silent. I asked are we understood Sir he says yes then walks up the forester.

I show him what I have cut and the neat piles I had left behind. I even showed him tree's I had left behind that showed signs of Animal habitat.

He then turned to me and said your doing exceptional work here and the community should be giving me a pat on the back.
He then asked me what saw I was using
Next thing he was at my house looking over my ms 361 and having a beer.
He offered me a job

 

[kettensäge]

Good for you!!

Maybe the neighbor learned a little about respect too.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

That is absolutely PHENOMENAL 44 elite. The best revenge is absolutely success.

I hope that puts an end to the problems. The VP of the HOA should send a little notice around to clarify and let everyone know that an actual forester has blessed the program, and how it's enhancing the woods.