New Hearth I'm concerned

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This is my first stove installation. I'm installing a Englander 50-SNC13L. I build the hearth this past weekend. I think I screwed up. I built the hearth from 2x4 frame ( on face 1-1/2" high) with 3/4" OSB, 1/2" hardi-backer then 5/16" ceramic tile. It's plenty big enough but I don't think it meets the R Value of 2, I just found in the manual. ( I learned this from reading other posts here.) My Question is, since I have already built the hearth, can I just add more heat protection directly below the stove? Any Ideas what it should be? Is there any chance that I'm alright as is?

Thanks is advance for your input.
FYI -I love this forum.

Murph-

 

[Wet1]

No good. You certainly need to rework it to meet R2, right now you're barely over R0.3! Your best bet to salvage the base (if you want to do so), would probably be to add two layers of Micore over the top of your hearth, then refinish the top again.

Don't use your stove with your existing hearth!

 

[[email protected]]

I was afraid of this. Do you think I could add the layers just below the stove, or does it need to cover the entire hearth?

Thanks

 

[edthedawg]

Mineral wool has an R-value of 3.1 per inch. That and steel studs are easy and cheap to buy. So is Durock and more tile and thinset.

So I would do this:

- Tear out your tile
- Lay down Durock (Not DurockNEXT - get the old stuff)
- Build a frame of steel studs in the exact same pattern as the 2x4's below. pack mineral wool into the open-faced steel studs. Set the frame in dollops of thinset and weight them all down til it sets up.
- Lay more Durock over. 2 layers if you feel the spacing of the grid below is too wide. You can't handle more than say, 6-8" span in the Durock. Screw it down a few places into the steel studs.
- Tile over all that w/ thinset.

Seems that'd get you over R3 pretty easily, keep the same footprint, and only cost you about $150-$200.

($60 for min wool, $60 for Durock, $15 for Versabond, $40 for tile, $30 for studs, $5 for screws... that's a $210 max SWAG)

 

[Wet1]

No, your entire permanent hearth (which must also meet the min. dimensions listed in your manual) needs to be at least R2. You can't just add a couple of pieces of insulation under the stove and call it a day. Sorry, but you need to rework your hearth, or build a new one. As mentioned above, you have options on how to do this.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks. I new I should have looked harder before hand.

 

[nlittle]

Not sure where in NH you are but I have some micore 300 left over - see
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42752/

 

[[email protected]]

I think I'm going to need the better part of 2 sheets full, since I need 2 layers. I appriciate the offer though. I thought I was getting a smaller stove so it wouldn't be such a big deal. I'm glad I looked futher.

Does anyone know If I will be able to glue / adhere the Micore of the existing tile? Sounds like that might be the easiest way. Sounds like I can get Micore in 3/4" inch. That plus my exisiting mess should add up to more than r "2" correct?

 

[Wet1]

I think I'm going to need the better part of 2 sheets full, since I need 2 layers. I appriciate the offer though. I thought I was getting a smaller stove so it wouldn't be such a big deal. I'm glad I looked futher.

Does anyone know If I will be able to glue / adhere the Micore of the existing tile? Sounds like that might be the easiest way. Sounds like I can get Micore in 3/4" inch. That plus my existing mess should add up to more than r "2" correct?

With all that weight on it, it's not going to get up and run away from you, but I'd bond it. I'd probably adhere the Micore to the tile with some thinset. You'll want to put another layer of cement board over the top of the Micore so you can tile over it. What you have now, plus the 3/4" Micore and a layer of 1/2 Durock/tile will get you over R2.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm feeling better thanks for all your help. I'll report back with a safe hearth / a beer. And probably questions regarding the chimney. I intend to use Selkirk Metalbestos. Their website gives pretty clear instruction on what to use and where to use it.

thanks again.

 

[edthedawg]

If the current footprint of the hearth puts the perimeter ENTIRELY a few inches outside the minimum requirements, then I would add a wooden "band" around the whole outer edge, with the Micore safely inside of it. Make it about 3" wide, and thickness to match the compressed Micore - maybe like 1/16" - 1/8" thinner, to allow for thinset. That oughta keep it all from moving once you set Durock on top of the Micore.

And I would use 2 layers of Durock, probably. Just to reduce the chance of flex.

And it wouldn't hurt to put in layer(s) of Durock in strips thru the Micore layer JUST where the stove is gonna sit. Such support is very helpful during installation and such!

 

[firefighterjake]

Murph . . . sorry to hear that the hearth you built won't cut it for the R value . . . the bad news is that you didn't find hearth.com until after you built it . . . the good news is that you're being smart and safe and building it right rather than thinking it's "good enough" . . . and folks here will be more than happy to answer any future questions.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes Jake, I wish I had found this first. But that's Fine I'll fix. Everyone here has been a huge help. I can't wait to get the stove going, I grew up with a stove in house, but it's been 20+ years since I've had the pleasure. But I'm not interested in risking my family's health or life for it.

BTW does anyone here know what it means to "cure the stove before long periods of burning".

Thanks again for everything.

 

[edthedawg]

Means the paints and oils and enamels and cements used to build the stove ain't fully cured, so when you fire it up to temp, you'll be experiencing some mild outgassing, Might even be so bad as to make you wanna open a window for a few minutes. Oughta be gone after the first few fires. Just part of the "break-in" procedure. Failure to do that right makes it more of a "breaking" procedure. You don't wanna do that.

 

[firefighterjake]

Yes Jake, I wish I had found this first. But that's Fine I'll fix. Everyone here has been a huge help. I can't wait to get the stove going, I grew up with a stove in house, but it's been 20+ years since I've had the pleasure. But I'm not interested in risking my family's health or life for it.

BTW does anyone here know what it means to "cure the stove before long periods of burning".

Thanks again for everything.

You have a great outlook on this . . . and I hope you stick around for awhile so we can get everything squared away for you so you'll be up and burning in no time.

As Ed mentioned . . . curing the stove typically means a few low, short-lasting fires to "cook" the paint and drive off any excess moisture found in the soapstones and/or stove cement . . . often done with cast iron and soapstone stoves. Oftentimes the curing process involves two or three successive fires with each subsequent fire burning a little hotter . . . during the process there can be some noxious smells from the curing paint.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all your help gentlemen.

2 1/2"sheets of micore and another layer of tile board. Got the chiney in and burned off the smell from the stove. It's going to be a good winter.

Started buring this weekend.

Any ideas on where one would find the best operating temp range of the stove. I'm trying to be carefull of buring "too hot" , but keep a good fire going.

Thanks again

 

[Wet1]

Glad to hear you got it taken care of Murph!

I'd don't have that stove, but I'd think you'd want to burn it between 450° to 600° F or so at the stove top. Hopefully someone with that stove will offer better info.

 

[edthedawg]

I don't know the E50 well either, but there's plenty of help on the site elsewhere - keep searching.

You always wanna do a hot fire at least once a day to burn out the nasties. You invariably need to burn it a lot hotter than you think you do right now. Glass should burn clean - inside the firebox things should be brown to white. no black/soot/glossy.

Run hot for 15-20 minutes, once or twice a day, and you'll be pleased w/ the cleanliness of the flue