New install of Enviro Maxx/Vistaflame VF170 ash cake problem....

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rhider

Member
Feb 27, 2012
20
Southern Maine
Hello all!! Newbie to the pellet stove world here. I have found this forum VERY helpful in my first week. I have searched and found some information about my stove and the issues I think I am having, now is the time to ask my specific questions.

I have installed a "floor model" 2008 Vistaflame VF170 (first generation?) in my basement. I am getting "okay" heat circulation. 80 in the basement and 72 upstairs on heat setting two.
The problem I am having is after 10-12 hours of burn time the ash pot fills up with ash, not clinkers, but packed ash. It seems the combustion blower is not blowing enought air to clean out the ash pot.

I have installed an OAK that is 4" diameter reducing to 3" just above the stove. It is about a 10' run to get teh fresh air to the stove.
I installed a 4" vent/exhaust going up 6' the foundation and 2' out the wall.
I "adjusted" the air/combustion damper (wide open seems to get the best burn)
I gave the stove a "thorough" cleaning Saturday morning.

I have read that the early generation EnviroMaxx had combustion blower issues and ther ewas some factory upgrade kit??
I also found that some Maxx owners have done a Whitfield burn pot upgrade?

What have I missed? I have heard people can run this stove for a week straight before having to empty the ash pan, let alone the burn pot. It's not that big a deal, i would just like to know I have not done something wrong in the setup.

Could this be only bad fuel? I am burning Maine's Choice from Lowes
 

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Im just gonna welcome you to the Forum.. Not a lot of experience overall with your stove (other than what I read here, and you covered all the points, Nice job).

Sounds like you have done your homework and done some research. Someone will be along to assist you. We have a couple people here that are Very well versed in the ways of Enviro/Vista Flame.

Nice set-up. Thanks for the pic. (We like when they burn too!! ;-P )
 
Where's Jay when he's needed? He's lucky I'm not running the show. ;-)

And Dexter didn't bust yer chops about a surge protector?

Anyways the pros will be along shortly.

Welcome.
 
smoke show said:
Where's Jay when he's needed? He's lucky I'm not running the show. ;-)

And Dexter didn't bust yer chops about a surge protector?

Anyways the pros will be along shortly.

Welcome.

Im getting better. . .

The Docs say my Meds are finally working.

I need not call on every detail (unless needed???) ;-P

Plus, I see a cord?? But the stove cord seems to be outside the pic?? (Goes outside the lefthand side of photo)?
 
Welcome to the boards Rhider!

Sounds like you've already done your homework/search the boards, etc - I'm also running an Enviro Maxx /Vistaflame VF170 from the basement for the first time, mine was a 2009 floor/showroom model. Just to start, I can tell you that my only regret is that I didn't do this earlier, there's quite a few members here with this model and hopefully they will chime in as well with some great info. I will attest from experience, that you can run this stove for a week (or two) without touching the burn-pot or ash pan. You seem to have a handle already on damper settings and a proper install, with an OAK and all - There are combustion and auger trim settings on the stove, but I'm willing to bet you can fix your 'problem' right off the bat by experimenting with different pellet fuels until you find the one which burns efficiently in your stove - this was my experience.

I'm not running an OAK at the moment, but I do have the 4" exhaust venting into a 25' chimney (6" SS liner) - as you can imagine, this pulls 'Nascar' type drafts which I'm guessing helps keep my burn-pot very clean, I have minimal damper setting. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the trim settings only work on setting #1 (where the convection fan is off) - do you have your stove on a thermostat? and if so, is this where you notice the 'cake' buildup? If so, then increasing the combustion trim may help keep the burn-pot clean.
 
not enough air, caking occurs in top feeders when there is not enough velocity through the pot to blow it clean as it burns.

check damper make sure its open enough (if equipped im not real familiar with that stove) IMHO the OAK is a bit long, if it can be more directly routed outside and shortened it could help. also check any "ash traps" and oher hidden areas where ash can build up a stove with ash building in it will do this as well, consult your manual look at the "deep cleaning" section (or whatever they call it) if you have the damper open and you have run over a ton through it also check the flue, an open damper tends t make ash carry and this results in the flue getting loaded up faster than if its relatively closed.

hope this helps
 
WOW... thanks for all the responses!! I will try and relpy to each of you.... here it goes.

Dexterday, Thank you for the first of many warm welcomes. "Burn Picture" attached ;)

Smoke show, Yes there is a surge protector just out of view. The install manual said to install one but I did not until I read of some horror stories on here of fried curcuit boards!!

VTrider "I’m not running an OAK at the moment, but I do have the 4†exhaust venting into a 25’ chimney (6†SS liner) - as you can imagine, this pulls ‘Nascar’ type drafts which I’m guessing helps keep my burn-pot very clean, I have minimal damper setting. I’m not 100% sure, but I think the trim settings only work on setting #1 (where the convection fan is off) - do you have your stove on a thermostat? and if so, is this where you notice the ‘cake’ buildup? If so, then increasing the combustion trim may help keep the burn-pot clean."

Where does the draft come from? The chimmney or is it the double walled vent pipe? I thought the only air induced was from the OAK? My stove only has an adjustment for the trim of auger feed rate. the newer models allow combustion fan trim adjust and convection fan on/off i believe. VF170 vs. VF170B. No thermostat hooked up...no way this thing would re-fire with that much ash in the burn pot if it cycled on and off after 10 hours.

stoveguy2esw "not enough air, caking occurs in top feeders when there is not enough velocity through the pot to blow it clean as it burns."

This is exactlly what i am thinking...looking at my stove the "damper" is on the exhaust side thus reducing the suction in the firebox. There is no way to control the air intake??



I had not installed the OAK for the first 5 days this stove ran. When I did it really made NO difference at all. How do i get more air into this thing to clean that ash pot??
I have also attached a picture of the ash pot after a 12 hour burn that i had to clean this morning. HTH....
 

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The VF170 is a clone of the Enviro Maxx. There is a damper on these units. Yes, its on the exhaust side of the burnpot. But when opened it will draw more air thru the stove. The stove should be set with a magnihelic gauge. Check your owners manual and the tech manual for proper setup.

Depending on pellet quality you still may need to stir the burnpot on a daily basis. The higher quality pellets will extend the period but you will still need to stir it as this unit isn't a self cleaner like the M55/Omega/Maxx M units with the agitator in the burnpot. I have yet to see anything but the high ash burnpot for these units. I haven't seen anyone actually install a whit pot in these. Just chatter that it might be possible. The high ash burnpot works very well with lesser quality pellets. But you will still need to stir the burnpot and due burnpot cleanings depending on pellet quality.

Seeing you have an early unit. I would contact the place of purchase. There were upgrades to these units to the combustion blower. IMHO the unit should have had all the upgrades installed before it was sold. If not? They should upgrade it for you. The date of purchase is when the warranty starts, So don't go by the units age/date. The date on the sales slip is what starts the warranty clock! FYI only.
 
Pelleting In NJ said:
Your flue pipe is too restrictive?

6 ft up and 2 ft out (w/ 2 90°'s) is only a 15 EVL. Thats not much for a 4" vent system. Pretty standard. IMO

Jay may be onto something. Maybe his stove is "New" (Old stock) with Old parts in it (combustion blower, control board, pot?). Lots of info here on the problems with earlier models. Low flow right off the bat (like quite a few stoves back then). Some Manufacturers just pushed a product out to get it out. Only to find out, that the performance was sub-par and needed some "upgrades" to let them breathe and burn better.....
 
if the ash that builds up in the burnpot is light and fluffy, you have air restiction problem...if its hard and gritty like, its just the pellets. I like to "eyeball" the damper setting on this unit...I always set mine up to have a few of the pellets dancing/jiggling in the burnpot, but not jumping. If they do not dance, open the damper some more, if the damper is all the way open you may have a restriction or something.
 
DexterDay said:
Pelleting In NJ said:
Your flue pipe is too restrictive?

6 ft up and 2 ft out (w/ 2 90°'s) is only a 15 EVL. Thats not much for a 4" vent system. Pretty standard. IMO

Jay may be onto something. Maybe his stove is "New" (Old stock) with Old parts in it (combustion blower, control board, pot?). Lots of info here on the problems with earlier models. Low flow right off the bat (like quite a few stoves back then). Some Manufacturers just pushed a product out to get it out. Only to find out, that the performance was sub-par and needed some "upgrades" to let them breathe and burn better.....

i think Jay is spot on!! I will be visting the dealer tonight to see about upgrades. It was a "new" floor model for $1500 off retail!! BUT it was manufactures in January 2008
 
Delta-T said:
if the ash that builds up in the burnpot is light and fluffy, you have air restiction problem...if its hard and gritty like, its just the pellets. I like to "eyeball" the damper setting on this unit...I always set mine up to have a few of the pellets dancing/jiggling in the burnpot, but not jumping. If they do not dance, open the damper some more, if the damper is all the way open you may have a restriction or something.

It is mostly light and fluffy. No clinkers to speak of. The damper is wide open so there is no more to go. I did a deep cleaning saturday short of removing the combustion blower from the back. I am hoping the dealer will step up with some "upgrades" for this "new" old stock unit.
 
Seems I have a pellet quality issue....

After much discussion with Southern Maine Renewable Fuels and Embers Stoves I am trying a few different pellet products. I burned a bag of La Crete last night and got NO ash buildupin the pot. I am burning a bag of Trebio now and about 1/2 gone and have very little ash. I also have a bag of PWI that i have been told is about the lowest ash content possible with good heat.
I am more confident no this is a pellet issue, not a stove issue. My stove is not a fan of Maine's Choice, anyone want to buy 30 bags or so??

http://www.woodpellets4me.com/pellets-overview.html
http://www.woodpellets4me.com/pdf/2011-2012-PelletReview.pdf
http://embersstoveshop.com/
 
Welcome Rhider,

My model is even earlier than yours, and I'm not positive what updates mine has because I purchased it used.

On my unit it is very important that the burnpot fits perfectly into the burnpot holder flush at the top (at the sides of the burnpot). It takes some fiddling and down force to accomplish this, for it kind of locks into place when correct. One way to tell if it is seated correctly is you will not be able to see the top rows of air holes in the front of the burnbot, for these holes should be lower than the top rim of the pot holder.

On your photo there are tabs on the back of the burnpot, these tabs should lock into the grooves in the back of the burnpot holder, and the tabs on the burnpot should be nearly flush with the top of the burnpot holder. After this is correct check to make sure that the air holes in the front of the burnpot are lower than the top of the burnpot holder by pushing down on the front of the burnpot.

If the burnpot is seated correctly it will make a good enough seal to create enough draft for good airflow, but if I'm not careful to seat the pot correctly the pot will have ash build up quickly, due to the air leaking around the burnpot.

My venting set up is very similar to yours (4" vent, 5' vert, and 2' out), but my draft setting is no where near to all the way open.

My OAK is 4' long.

I'm not sure if you have the same control board as mine, but in my manual it has specific recommended settings for different grade pellets.
Between the manual's setting recommendations and proper draft settings I've been able to burn almost any pellet cleanly providing the burnpot is seated correctly.

I don't know if any of this is applicable to your model, but I hope it helps.

1D
 
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