New Stove Ideas - Osburn Matrix?

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

gggvan

Member
Dec 6, 2012
134
Looking to spend ~2500-3000, 2+ cub firebox, flush, modern with large glass viewing area. I have a pretty large opening, so I'm not concerned with fit.

I'm thinking the obsorne matrix, any other ideas on comparable?

 
  • Like
Reactions: marty319
Osburn makes great products and customer service is outstanding
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mech e
I added the name to the title to attract more eyes, but this is a quiet summer so it may be a while before Matrix owners notice. I don't recall hearing negatives about the Matrix other than the normal issues with a flush insert. Most owners seem happy. Do a search on Matrix in this forum to read past posts. One small complaint is that it doesn't come with a variable speed blower switch, just low or high.

By modern, I assumed you looking at the contemporary styled Matrix 2000 insert and not the new, more traditionally styled, 2700 Matrix? Is that correct? How large an area is this for? Will it be mostly for ambiance fires on nights and weekends or for 24/7 heating? Some alternatives are the Lopi Medium Flush Hybrid, Morso 5660 w/blower, Regency Ci2700.
 
Last edited:
I added the name to the title to attract more eyes, but this is a quiet summer so it may be a while before Matrix owners notice. I don't recall hearing negatives about the Matrix other than the normal issues with a flush insert. Most owners seem happy. Do a search on Matrix in this forum to read past posts. One small complaint is that it doesn't come with a variable speed blower switch, just low or high.

By modern, I assumed you looking at the contemporary styled Matrix 2000 insert and not the new, more traditionally styled, 2700 Matrix? Is that correct? How large an area is this for? Will it be mostly for ambiance fires on nights and weekends or for 24/7 heating? Some alternatives are the Lopi Medium Flush Hybrid, Morso 5660 w/blower, Regency Ci2700.
Thanks. it's about 800 -900 Sq ft open space. double sided floor to ceiling stone chimney. On the living room side is a morso 5660; the new stove will be on the family room side.

We usually alternate, mornings afternoon, family room stove ; evening living room stove, with Dino heat source in case heat drops and nobody is feeding the stove.
 
I've got a freestanding pre EPA 2020 Matrix. We've had it for almost a year and so far it's been a good stove. It's burns clean, throws lots of heat, and has a large viewing window to watch the fire. I can turn it down quite low for spring and fall use and in the winter it can keep my 2100 sqft house warm in -25c if I run it hard. The build quality is good, and tech support is awesome should you need it.

The only thing I'd consider switching this stove for would be a blaze king catalytic, but I don't think I would be able to handle loosing the view of the fire that comes with a non-catalytic stove.
 
Thanks. it's about 800 -900 Sq ft open space. double sided floor to ceiling stone chimney. On the living room side is a morso 5660; the new stove will be on the family room side.
If the area has cathedral ceilings then a bigger insert might be ok if there is room. I forgot to mention the Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 and 2.5.
 
Last edited:
If the area has cathedral ceilings then a bigger insert might be ok if there is room. I forgot to mention the Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 and 2.5.

8' ceilings. it's a mid-century modern ranch. The old regency that's there now does fine, just requires frequentl feeding.
 
8' ceilings. it's a mid-century modern ranch. The old regency that's there now does fine, just requires frequentl feeding.
What regency is there?
 
I've got a freestanding pre EPA 2020 Matrix. We've had it for almost a year and so far it's been a good stove. It's burns clean, throws lots of heat, and has a large viewing window to watch the fire. I can turn it down quite low for spring and fall use and in the winter it can keep my 2100 sqft house warm in -25c if I run it hard. The build quality is good, and tech support is awesome should you need it.

The only thing I'd consider switching this stove for would be a blaze king catalytic, but I don't think I would be able to handle loosing the view of the fire that comes with a non-catalytic stove.
Thank you for posting about your matrix. Im doing some initial research on the matrix as I really like the sleek look and I think ultimately i can convince my wife on this option. Do you mind going in more depth about your likes and dislike of this unit? For example, does the blower automatically turn on. If so, is that something that can be disengaged? If the blower is not running, will you still gain a significant amount of heat? How loud is the blower, to the best of your ability to describe volume. As well as any other important information that you came to find after purchasing your unit. Thank you for taking the time to answer, I truly appreciate any insight you may have.
 
Thank you for posting about your matrix. Im doing some initial research on the matrix as I really like the sleek look and I think ultimately i can convince my wife on this option. Do you mind going in more depth about your likes and dislike of this unit? For example, does the blower automatically turn on. If so, is that something that can be disengaged? If the blower is not running, will you still gain a significant amount of heat? How loud is the blower, to the best of your ability to describe volume. As well as any other important information that you came to find after purchasing your unit. Thank you for taking the time to answer, I truly appreciate any insight you may have.

Blower is automatic, but is variable speed and can be turned off and on from a control on the front of the unit. The temperature switch can also be bypassed for a manual only mode should you desire. The blower is fairly quiet, similar to other stoves I've been around, probably similar in volume to the bathroom fans in my house, and they are fairly quiet, turning the blower down also reduces the noise considerably. As with all stoves with a sheet metal jacket it does vibrate from time to time, but it usually goes away on its own in a few minutes or touching the panel stops this.

The Matrix is more of a convective heater, it is completely jacketed and heats the air well, which works for me heating my 2 story plus basement house from the basement. The large glass does radiate a lot of heat however, but not like an open top stove would. I'm not sure about running it without the blower, I've really never tried, I suppose on low output it would work, for more output I think the blower would be mandatory.

One thing to consider is the draft of the chimney you will have, this stove breathes quite easily and can overfire on a tall stack, I've got 36' vertical feet above my stove collar, overdraft has been an issue for me, a flue damper has solved 90% of it though. Mine is the EPA 2015 model, the current EPA 2020 model has a more open secondary air system, I suspect overdraft will be more of an issue on a tall chimney.

There is one concern however, regarding long term reliability, I've noticed there is about a 1/16" bow on the low front of the door face and now just over a 1/4" gap where the baffle sits on the tubes. This isn't something most people would notice, and doesn't affect operation, but I work in a fabrication shop and notice these things easily, and if the firebox warps over time it could become an issue, but a 1/4" tolerance on a piece like this isn't necessarily extreme.

To be honest though when we went out to buy a stove we didn't intend on buying this model, I originally wanted a BlazeKing based on the reviews of other members of this Forum (particularly the even heat output and long burn times), or a Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 also for it's aesthetics and functionality. I grew up on a Pacific Energy Super 27 and know PE's merits well, my dad calls that stove a workhorse, a title it has well earned almost 75 cords and 17 hard years later. The stove shop that sold BlazeKing's was closed the day we were looking, we went across the street to the other shop and my wife fell in love with the Osburn Matrix on display, it was also on sale for a price too good to refuse, it also checked all the other boxes for size and heat output.

Overall we are happy with the stove, ours is a full time heater, it runs almost non-stop beginning of November to mid April, we really like the large glass and the fire show the stove regularly puts on, something I would have really missed on a catalytic stove.

I'm sorry this is long winded, but didn't know how else to put this into words, if you have any other questions just ask.
 
Not long winded at all. Honestly I'm going to be rereading everything you said here a few times over. I appreciate EVERYTHING you mentioned in this forum. Right now the Matrix (or inspire) is my first choice however I'm going to look up the other units you mentioned.

The only thing that concerns me about what you shared is the draft. I had not considered this at all. This will be my first insert and im excited about it but also learning a ton from this forum. My insert won't be my primary source of heat but if I spend this kind of money I want to make sure it works as intended. I only know about overfiring due to reading about it and honestly never knew that was a thing. How do you know if something is overfiring? I mean, don't fires look similar from one another? I want to make sure I know what to keep my eye out for, regardless of the unit I decide on.

My home is a 2 story + basement. All three levels are finished and used. I have a fireplace in the basement (never gets used) and one on the main floor. Total square feet is a little over 3,000. We just moved here over the summer and this is our first wood fireplace. We have fallen in love with using our fireplace compared to our old gas fireplace. But I feel the heat going right through our chimney when we make a fire every night. Literally the entire house gets cooler because its sucking the warm air out even though its so relaxing. I found this unit online and although it won't be the same as an open fireplace its likely the closest we are going to get to it while being more conscientious of energy.

Last question I have for you...for now. How long do you get from one load, and how many splits of wood do you consider a load? My father in law is holding us back on purchasing one because he's not convinced it will do much better than what we currently have. He's stuck on the idea of how long they burn for. I know it says up to 8 hours but thats likely just advertisement. Whats your take on how long it last per load?

Now I have to apologize for being long winded. Im just excited to have you write me back as this subject is so fun to learn about. I cant wait to finally make the decision and sit back with the fire warming my home.
 
Last edited:
Not long winded at all. Honestly I'm going to be rereading everything you said here a few times over. I appreciate EVERYTHING you mentioned in this forum. Right now the Matrix (or inspire) is my first choice however I'm going to look up the other units you mentioned.

The only thing that concerns me about what you shared is the draft. I had not considered this at all. This will be my first insert and im excited about it but also learning a ton from this forum. My insert won't be my primary source of heat but if I spend this kind of money I want to make sure it works as intended. I only know about overfiring due to reading about it and honestly never knew that was a thing. How do you know if something is overfiring? I mean, don't fires look similar from one another? I want to make sure I know what to keep my eye out for, regardless of the unit I decide on.

My home is a 2 story + basement. All three levels are finished and used. I have a fireplace in the basement (never gets used) and one on the main floor. Total square feet is a little over 3,000. We just moved here over the summer and this is our first wood fireplace. We have fallen in love with using our fireplace compared to our old gas fireplace. But I feel the heat going right through our chimney when we make a fire every night. Literally the entire house gets cooler because its sucking the warm air out even though its so relaxing. I found this unit online and although it won't be the same as an open fireplace its likely the closest we are going to get to it while being more conscientious of energy.

Last question I have for you...for now. How long do you get from one load, and how many splits of wood do you consider a load? My father in law is holding us back on purchasing one because he's not convinced it will do much better than what we currently have. He's stuck on the idea of how long they burn for. I know it says up to 8 hours but thats likely just advertisement. Whats your take on how long it last per load?

Now I have to apologize for being long winded. Im just excited to have you write me back as this subject is so fun to learn about. I cant wait to finally make the decision and sit back with the fire warming my home.

If you put the stove in the basement you will have a tall chimney, likely very close to my 36', if you put the stove on the main floor I believe your draft will be more manageable as your chimney should be in the 25' range, a flue damper may still be required though.

Overfiring is possible with most setups, but especially on tall chimney's, the problem is the tall chimney provides a strong draft and pulls lots of air through the stove, eventually this becomes a run-a-way process. Draft is dependent on 2 things, the height of the chimney and the temperature of the flue gases, an increase in height, temperature or both increases draft. In an overfiring situation as the chimney gets hotter draft becomes stronger, as the draft becomes stronger it pulls more air through the stove, increasing stove and flue temps, increasing draft and so on. Even with the stove turned all the way down the stove is burning very violently. If the overfire is bad enough the stove can overheat and so can the chimney, if the chimney has enough creosote there is a risk of a chimney fire. The best way to tell is by temperature, a stove top thermometer, flue probe thermometer, or digital flue probe thermometer. Ideally you run stove top and flue, but the Matrix and Inspire stoves don't really have a space to allow a stove top thermometer to be added, so I run a flue probe. 1000F is max you should see on a flue probe, but realistically I try to keep mine below 700F at all times.

On a few occasions I've had an overfire, all before my flue damper was installed, the internal stove pipe temps exceeded 800F and the stove couldn't be slowed until the fuel began to get used up. On one occasion I had an overfire hot enough to turn the center of the stove top a very dull red in a pitch black dark room, with flue temps of almost 1000F, this is when I decided to install the flue damper. The flue damper slows the flow of flue gases from the stove, essentially limiting draft, now with the flue damper closed and stove damper closed I have to load a full firebox of wood on a hot bed of coals to hit 650F flue temps.

One thing to consider is how much heat you want from the stove, I have 2100sqft total with R22 walls and r50 roof and my Matrix is on the small side to solely heat the house on the coldest winter days, but works fine the majority of the time. I do get colder temps than Minnesota, but really not by that much. If you want supplemental heat it will work fine, and if tended regularly it could get you through an outage of heat in the winter depending on your houses air sealing and insulation.

Comparing this stove to an open fireplace really isn't fair. As you've noticed a fireplace can either be a poor choice for heat, or downright suck the heat from the house right up the chimney. You don't get the crackle from the fire, but at the benefit of not having smoke or sparks entering the living space. A properly operated modern stove is a very effective heater, and most operate in the mid 70's for percentage efficiency. I really can't state that enough, every house I've ever lived in has had a wood stove, and every one of them could heat the house in the depths of winter, albeit with the rooms furthest from the stove being significantly cooler than the room the stove is in. Unfortunately you FIL seems misinformed on this topic, a good fireplace will turn 15% of the energy of the wood into heating the room, even a poor wood stove manages to turn 70% of the woods energy into heat, a very substantial difference.

Ah. now for the ever debatable burn times. I can get 10 hr burn times with mine on a full load (I'll get to that next), by that I mean I load my stove at 10pm and at 8am the next morning I have just enough embers left in the coals to get the next fire going. By simply placing a couple pieces of birch bark on the embers with kindling or splits on top closing the door and opening the damper fully I have another fire. Realistically with a full load by the 5hr mark the majority of the heat has been released from the wood and the stove is cooling down, with just coals remaining. This is the nature of the beast, a non-catalytic stove runs in cyclic operation like this, heating up and then cooling down. Once you get good at running a stove you learn to use these cycles to your advantage, lighting a fire in the morning to take the chill from the house, and letting its output fade as outside temps warm up. Lighting again in the evening to heat for the night.

For a full load I don't really count splits, mine aren't all the same size, sometimes I get in 12 pieces sometimes only 6. A full firebox to me is loaded bottom to top about 1-2" below the bottom of the secondary tubes. It's got a 2.4 cuft firebox, so realistically about 2cuft of wood at a time. The firebox doesn't have to be loaded full though, it does run shorter burns quite well on smaller loads of wood, I do find though that 3 smallish splits is really the minimum that should be burnt at a time to ensure a clean burn.

One thing I should also mention is this stove has a shorter yet wider firebox than most, when loading in the North-South orientation 16" is the max length, but 15" is more ideal, in the East-West orientation you can get up to 20" pieces.

If you have any more questions just ask. Keep reading though there is always more to learn, I find that all the time. Sometimes it's intimidating, especially on a site like this with so many knowledgeable members, but your off to a great start, doing as much research as you can before spending a dime is the best way to ensure you get it right the first time.
 
Well, I must have watched 7 installation videos today. I cant stop but read every article about these units and im loving it. I took your advice and have started exploring the Neo 2.5 unit. After reading reviews and based on your own recommendation I might end up going with that unit instead of the Matrix/Inspire by Osburn.

As always, I have more questions. You see the problem with research is that its by-product is creating a thirst for more knowledge. I have tried to understand what a refractory panel is and do I need one. On one insert purchasin website it comes at an additional price but I have no clue if everyone needs one. My firebox is all metal as I am assuming thats where this panel would go (I truly don't know). So thats my first question...what the heck is it, do I need it, and what is its purpose. I guess my first question is actually 3 disguising as one.

My next question, which could be equally attempting to come across as only one is do you have your unit connected to a fresh air duct? I have been reading some people saying its not needed and others saying it is. If I were to add this to the project where would the duct vent in from? Does it follow the same path up the chimney as the exhaust? I'm not thrilled about having to drill a hole into the chimney (likely causing more harm than good) if its not needed.

Last question of the evening is related to insulation. Is there a benefit to insulating the insert from behind. I know I have read about insulating the top (cant recall what the term is used for capping it) so that air doesn't escape above the insert but wondering if anyone ever insulated the unit from the back, much like a dishwasher would be.

P.S. happy new year
 
Well, I must have watched 7 installation videos today. I cant stop but read every article about these units and im loving it. I took your advice and have started exploring the Neo 2.5 unit. After reading reviews and based on your own recommendation I might end up going with that unit instead of the Matrix/Inspire by Osburn.

As always, I have more questions. You see the problem with research is that its by-product is creating a thirst for more knowledge. I have tried to understand what a refractory panel is and do I need one. On one insert purchasin website it comes at an additional price but I have no clue if everyone needs one. My firebox is all metal as I am assuming thats where this panel would go (I truly don't know). So thats my first question...what the heck is it, do I need it, and what is its purpose. I guess my first question is actually 3 disguising as one.

My next question, which could be equally attempting to come across as only one is do you have your unit connected to a fresh air duct? I have been reading some people saying its not needed and others saying it is. If I were to add this to the project where would the duct vent in from? Does it follow the same path up the chimney as the exhaust? I'm not thrilled about having to drill a hole into the chimney (likely causing more harm than good) if its not needed.

Last question of the evening is related to insulation. Is there a benefit to insulating the insert from behind. I know I have read about insulating the top (cant recall what the term is used for capping it) so that air doesn't escape above the insert but wondering if anyone ever insulated the unit from the back, much like a dishwasher would be.

P.S. happy new year

Unfortunately this is where my knowledge runs out. My stove is a freestanding unit and was a clean install, at the time of install I had a pre-fabricated metal chimney installed on the outside of the house for the stove. I'm not overly familiar with inserts, being that most houses here were built after the 60's and without fireplaces making freestanding stoves the norm. The fireboxes themselves are the same on these models however.

For an air intake I just have a vent on the wall for 2 reasons; the stove is below this vent, which although not against code in Canada I believe it is in the US as the cold air intake in certain instances can become the chimney, causing a fire, I also like fresh air in the house and would rather the stove burn the stale air from the room to be replaced by cold outside air.

Maybe @bholler or @begreen have some recommendations for your install questions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CODwarzone