NY natural gas ban update

[EatenByLimestone]

It’s not incredibly informative, but it’s something, lol

NY puts off implementing law that would ban natural gas in new homes and buildings

The law was scheduled to take effect Jan. 1.

www.syracuse.com

 

[woodgeek]

Disappointing!

 

[EbS-P]

They should have just taxed nat gas and LP. Then use the revenue for electric appliance rebates. Longer arc is the US LNG exports will start to increase as will prices.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think they realized electricity generation and grid reliability is going to be their issue. Forcing people into electrification when it’s not available in an area that has 6000+ heating degree days a year is a quick way to get unelected.

 

[EbS-P]

I think they realized electricity generation and grid reliability is going to be their issue. Forcing people into electrification when it’s not available in an area that has 6000+ heating degree days a year is a quick way to get unelected.

Data centers are not collapsing the grid. This was just for new construction. Policy and the markets are decent enough backstops. Electric prices for sure are going up. The cancellations of electric generation projects was a really poor decision.

 

[woodgeek]

Yup. A great time to cancel or disincentivize most new electric generation across the US.

 

[Duds13]

Disappointing!

Disappointing? How so?

 

[Burnin Since 1989]

And if the wind slows down blowing and the sun goes in. Not a good scenario. Never put all your eggs in one basket!

 

[EbS-P]

I watch but didn’t verify a commentary that all natural gas turbines have been “sold” for the next 5 years of production and are not taking new orders. These large infrastructure projects are planned on timescales much longer than data center planning and construction.

 

[X-Raycer]

A.O.C. says we can become totally "Green" by plugging into the Sun. She said it's best to do it at night.

 

[Burnin Since 1989]

A.O.C. says we can become totally "Green" by plugging into the Sun. She said it's best to do it at night.

Correct, If you plug in at night, you won't burn your hand. Common sense... 😂

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Controversial $1B Gas Pipeline Gains NJ-NY Approvals for Construction

Energy developer Williams Cos. has secured OKs from the states' environmental regulators to build the Northeast Supply Enhancement Project despite past rejections and rising opposition.

www.enr.com

NY and NJ just approved permits for a new NG pipeline.

 

[Duds13]

Hochul runnin scared!

 

[EbS-P]

Hochul runnin scared!

Nah. It’s better than an oil pipeline. And realistically a lot of that gas will be exported.

 

[Duds13]

Nah. It’s better than an oil pipeline. And realistically a lot of that gas will be exported.

You live in NC, do you have family in NY? Hochul is doing a complete 180

 

[EbS-P]

You live in NC, do you have family in NY? Hochul is doing a complete 180

The country did a 180. There is no support for any green agenda. The major corporations have re aligned with the political winds. Money talks politicians if they want to continue in politics must listen. Who is supporting a green movement now?? Bill gates even pulled a 90 if not a 180.

The rest of the world is taking notice. And no one is more pleased than China. They hate the tariffs but those are quickly repealed. The manufacturing infrastructure building for green products has come to a halt in the US and China will gladly fill any hole left by the US.

Furthermore I don’t fault people trying really reach out for new approaches. I’d rather have them fail 1/3 of the time than have them keep the status quo.

 

[Duds13]

The country did a 180. There is no support for any green agenda. The major corporations have re aligned with the political winds. Money talks politicians if they want to continue in politics must listen. Who is supporting a green movement now?? Bill gates even pulled a 90 if not a 180.

The rest of the world is taking notice. And no one is more pleased than China. They hate the tariffs but those are quickly repealed. The manufacturing infrastructure building for green products has come to a halt in the US and China will gladly fill any hole left by the US.

Furthermore I don’t fault people trying really reach out for new approaches. I’d rather have them fail 1/3 of the time than have them keep the status quo.

Maybe because it's the green new scam? It's always been a scam. Hey, the big guy in Cali is still pushing it!

 

[Dieselhead]

I’m new to dabbling in solar this year, not grid tie but a EG4 hybrid 24k mini split. In the summer time this thing kicked ass from about 11am-630pm and kept the main living floors cold even on the hottest days, solar only. Since heating season started if I have been able to go straight solar a few days that’s a lot. Between the low sun, frequent clouds so far it’s been an eye opener as to solar efficiency in anything but summer. And it’s not even the dead of winter yet where the sun will be at its lowest (and heat pump at lowest efficiency). I imagine if I had a $60k solar tracker my results would be much better but I can buy an awful lot of electricity without the maintenance for that amount. Wood and fossil fuels continue to heat the best here in the northeast.

 

[EbS-P]

I’m new to dabbling in solar this year, not grid tie but a EG4 hybrid 24k mini split. In the summer time this thing kicked ass from about 11am-630pm and kept the main living floors cold even on the hottest days, solar only. Since heating season started if I have been able to go straight solar a few days that’s a lot. Between the low sun, frequent clouds so far it’s been an eye opener as to solar efficiency in anything but summer. And it’s not even the dead of winter yet where the sun will be at its lowest (and heat pump at lowest efficiency). I imagine if I had a $60k solar tracker my results would be much better but I can buy an awful lot of electricity without the maintenance for that amount. Wood and fossil fuels continue to heat the best here in the northeast.

Solar alone is not a great solution. Paired with wind and batteries you can make a quite resilient grid scale system. We’re not going 100% solar any time soon. 50+ years if ever. It’s all about peak load management. Can you reduce peak load so you don’t need the dirty and expensive peaking plants. Yes you can.

Let’s say the average January temperature in CT is 27F. That means you spend 12 hours a day on average above 27F. Heat pumps even if not solar powered will function really well in those temps. Cheaper than oil for sure. We’re talking probably less than 100 hours a year that they might need supplemental heat.

With current building technology and heatpumps there is no reason for new construction to use fossil fuels. Retrofits are more complicated. The ban on NG in new construction was right on. The technology to do it cheaper has been around for a very long time. No you won’t hear your home on solar in the winter. That’s why a diversified energy policy is required. It can be green. How green? Right now the future is not as green. Anyone celebrating that is selfish.

 

[Dieselhead]

Solar alone is not a great solution. Paired with wind and batteries you can make a quite resilient grid scale system. We’re not going 100% solar any time soon. 50+ years if ever. It’s all about peak load management. Can you reduce peak load so you don’t need the dirty and expensive peaking plants. Yes you can.

Let’s say the average January temperature in CT is 27F. That means you spend 12 hours a day on average above 27F. Heat pumps even if not solar powered will function really well in those temps. Cheaper than oil for sure. We’re talking probably less than 100 hours a year that they might need supplemental heat.

With current building technology and heatpumps there is no reason for new construction to use fossil fuels. Retrofits are more complicated. The ban on NG in new construction was right on. The technology to do it cheaper has been around for a very long time. No you won’t hear your home on solar in the winter. That’s why a diversified energy policy is required. It can be green. How green? Right now the future is not as green. Anyone celebrating that is selfish.

With diversification comes complication and with that comes cost. Multiple systems=$$$. Cost is probably the biggest driver in heating and cooling and with efficient ac systems and fossil fuel furnaces have come a long way, the ROI on solar is longer now it seems.

 

[woodgeek]

Disappointing? How so?

This gas 'ban' is in new construction only. They are not cutting off existing customers. They are not cutting off the gas supply to utilities. Nat Gas will be used for power generation for decades more.

But consumer level nat gas is an obsolete tech. The consumer level distribution grid is super leaky, and unvented gas appliances are unhealthy. The single biggest thing we could do to reduce climate forcing would be to cut back on methane leaks.... this could turn back the climate clock over the next 20 years unlike anything else we could do.

Expanding the nat gas consumer network in 2025 is absurd on both a climate and human health basis.

The decision to NOT ban gas in new construction is 100% politics, and ridiculous.

And in comparison, propane is still a VERY sensible fuel for consumer products and applications off the electrical grid. Storable, with zero climate concerns, bc the lifetime in the atmosphere is about 2 weeks, rather than 15 years.

 

[Dieselhead]

Tons of people switch to ng from oil or propane when they drop new lines in the street of old neighborhoods around here. Much cleaner, cheaper and efficient.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

This gas 'ban' is in new construction only. They are not cutting off existing customers. They are not cutting off the gas supply to utilities. Nat Gas will be used for power generation for decades more.

But consumer level nat gas is an obsolete tech. The consumer level distribution grid is super leaky, and unvented gas appliances are unhealthy. The single biggest thing we could do to reduce climate forcing would be to cut back on methane leaks.... this could turn back the climate clock over the next 20 years unlike anything else we could do.

Expanding the nat gas consumer network in 2025 is absurd on both a climate and human health basis.

The decision to NOT ban gas in new construction is 100% politics, and ridiculous.

And in comparison, propane is still a VERY sensible fuel for consumer products and applications off the electrical grid. Storable, with zero climate concerns, bc the lifetime in the atmosphere is about 2 weeks, rather than 15 years.

Should they ban wood too?

 

[Duds13]

Solar alone is not a great solution. Paired with wind and batteries you can make a quite resilient grid scale system. We’re not going 100% solar any time soon. 50+ years if ever. It’s all about peak load management. Can you reduce peak load so you don’t need the dirty and expensive peaking plants. Yes you can.

Let’s say the average January temperature in CT is 27F. That means you spend 12 hours a day on average above 27F. Heat pumps even if not solar powered will function really well in those temps. Cheaper than oil for sure. We’re talking probably less than 100 hours a year that they might need supplemental heat.

With current building technology and heatpumps there is no reason for new construction to use fossil fuels. Retrofits are more complicated. The ban on NG in new construction was right on. The technology to do it cheaper has been around for a very long time. No you won’t hear your home on solar in the winter. That’s why a diversified energy policy is required. It can be green. How green? Right now the future is not as green. Anyone celebrating that is selfish.

Gimme a break. What happens during a 4 day power outage in the winter in the northern climates when everyone is on heat pumps?

 

[Duds13]

This gas 'ban' is in new construction only. They are not cutting off existing customers. They are not cutting off the gas supply to utilities. Nat Gas will be used for power generation for decades more.

But consumer level nat gas is an obsolete tech. The consumer level distribution grid is super leaky, and unvented gas appliances are unhealthy. The single biggest thing we could do to reduce climate forcing would be to cut back on methane leaks.... this could turn back the climate clock over the next 20 years unlike anything else we could do.

Expanding the nat gas consumer network in 2025 is absurd on both a climate and human health basis.

The decision to NOT ban gas in new construction is 100% politics, and ridiculous.

And in comparison, propane is still a VERY sensible fuel for consumer products and applications off the electrical grid. Storable, with zero climate concerns, bc the lifetime in the atmosphere is about 2 weeks, rather than 15 years.

Why force new homeowners into something they may not want? Time to move on from the climate change nonsense. Or is it "global warming?" Seems to change like the weather...