Okanagan Question...

[DonD]

I have been burning 5 bags of Barefoots over the last couple of weeks and cleaned the stove good today, measured temps and ash content and am moving on to my Okies for the next couple of weeks. Very happy with the Barefoots. The first thing I noticed about the 1st bag of Okies is that they are very dusty and very short, at least compared to the Barefoots.

Dust all over and the pellets seemed to average about 1/4 inch in length and a high percentage of smaller bits of pellets. Not sure what defines a 'fine' but these seem small. I'm concerned about them even moving up the auger. It almost looks like someone took a 2x4 to the top of the pallet and crushed the top bag. Would this be considered normal for Okies? It's my first time with them. Maybe the top bags of the pallet were damaged?

They seem to be burning OK so far.

What defines a 'fine' anyway?

 

[krooser]

I have been burning 5 bags of Barefoots over the last couple of weeks and cleaned the stove good today, measured temps and ash content and am moving on to my Okies for the next couple of weeks. Very happy with the Barefoots. The first thing I noticed about the 1st bag of Okies is that they are very dusty and very short, at least compared to the Barefoots.

Dust all over and the pellets seemed to average about 1/4 inch in length and a high percentage of smaller bits of pellets. Not sure what defines a 'fine' but these seem small. I'm concerned about them even moving up the auger. It almost looks like someone took a 2x4 to the top of the pallet and crushed the top bag. Would this be considered normal for Okies? It's my first time with them. Maybe the top bags of the pallet were damaged?

They seem to be burning OK so far.

What defines a 'fine' anyway?

Dunno.... everything in the bag burns "fine" for me...small/large whatever.

 

[Stentor]

This is my second or third season with Okanagans. Haven't had any problems. This year I've started with a ton of Vermont Wood Pellets, which seem comparable to me. They are both excellent pellets, so far. And Okanagans get few complaints on this website. I wonder if your problem pellets had hard treatment during shipping or delivery? That might explain some of the crushed pellets and dust. (But I'm no expert.)

 

[DexterDay]

They stack pellets at the plant and more than likely at the place you bought them from. The top 5 bags may be a little crushed.

Fines are the "sawdust" like material in the bag. Quads auger system is just a spring. Cannot pull fines up the chute to burn them. I use a pellet sifter/sucker hooked up to a Shop Vac to take the fines out. Otherwise I have to vacuum the hopper out once a month to remove the build up at the bottom. If not it will lower and slow your feed rate.

I prefer a shorter pellet in my Quad. Get more volume fed into the burn pot and the feed plate is easier to adjust, than compared with longer pellets

 

[RKS130]

Hey Dexter - can you tell us more about your sucker/sifter setup? Is there already a description of on here somewhere? I have noticed the fines at the bottom of the bag (American Wood Fibers from HD mostly) and was wondering if there is an easy way to eliminate them. My thought was to accumulate all the dregs of each bag, where the fines seem to be located and figure out a way to sift them easily. 95% of the bag, while I am sure containing fines as well, seems pretty unburdened. But the bottom of the bag is loaded.

 

[DexterDay]

Pretty simple set up. PVC pipe, some 1/4" dowel rods (in the bottom for the pellets to hit, to knock fines off) and some gutter gaurd as a screen where the 2" to 3" PVC reducer is. Add a Shop Vac and Wha-La...

 

[The Radiator]

I had the dust problems with Okie's before. The dust went everywhere. Dustiest pellet I have burnt. Quite a few burners here swear by them, but there are plenty of other choices. The Hamers I am currently burning are short in length and move fine thru my auger. I like shorter pellets, they are easier to pack a load in the hopper with a fpi.

 

[DexterDay]

It does not have to be as big as mine. At the top, where the 180* bend is (clean-out) thats where most people hook the Shop Vac up to. I had the box built from another old project and wanted to use it. So I just extended it.

Also I am using a 6.5 HP Shop Vac. A 2-4 HP shop vac is plenty good. Even with one that size, small holes must be drilled above where the pellets come in (below the section where the gutter gaurd/screen is) to take some of the sucking pressure off. Otherwise whole pellets will get sucked up and clog the screen and stop the unit from sucking the fines.

Its a little trial and error to see how many holes, as there is no science behind it. And some pellets are smaller/larger/more dense than others and it needs to be fine tuned. I have a piece of tape in the back that covers some holes. Forum member imacman (got my build sheet from his design) has another larger piece of PVC that he rotates to either cover or uncover more holes. To gain or relieve more pressure.

Below are some pics of the pieces that have the dowel rods and how they are placed. And the other pic is the section where the gutter gaurd (or any fairly small screen) goes. Its sits in the area of the 3" to 2" reducer and is locked in-between them.

 

[Gabe]

DexterDay I see plumbing in your future LOL :ahhh:

 

[jtakeman]

Presently the Okies are shipped by rail to the NE area. Soon they will be bulked shipped and bagged at a local bagging house that will vacuum of the fines before bagging. So less fines and dust hopefully in the Okies future!

See this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77418/

 

[Lousyweather]

the Okies come from British Columbia, Canada. The are packaged at the mill, then stacked...then loaded on a truck, taken to a rail siding, loaded into a car, then unloaded from the car after being transported thousands of miles, then unloaded into a ware house, then loaded onto a truck, driven some miles to be unloaded at the dealers...then the dealer may reload them, and deliver them to you.....point is, there is ALOT of transportaion involved, all the while the pellets rubbing together, creating fines......so, yea, there are more fines than a pellet produced less than 100 miles away and handled significantly less. I burn em, and yea, the fines provide BTU's as well. I miss Doug.

 

[jtakeman]

the Okies come from British Columbia, Canada. The are packaged at the mill, then stacked...then loaded on a truck, taken to a rail siding, loaded into a car, then unloaded from the car after being transported thousands of miles, then unloaded into a ware house, then loaded onto a truck, driven some miles to be unloaded at the dealers...then the dealer may reload them, and deliver them to you.....point is, there is ALOT of transportaion involved, all the while the pellets rubbing together, creating fines......so, yea, there are more fines than a pellet produced less than 100 miles away and handled significantly less. I burn em, and yea, the fines provide BTU's as well. I miss Doug.

Quote from Mr Warm!

After some delays, The first 3 bulk cars(300 tons) of Okies will leave the mill next Monday bound for Upton. Another 600 tons that will probably leave the mill within 2 weeks. We want to be able to deliver a better looking package, not to mention a 50 bag pallet and also a 4 mil thick bag. Being vacuumed for the third time (twice at the mill and once at Upton) right before bagging should eliminate most of the dust and fines in the bag, since shipping to dealers will usually be within 75 miles of the plant, which shouldn't create any sizable amount of fines or dust.

 

[DonD]

Okies and me have gotten off to a rough start. The comments about distances traveled and handling damage make sense relative to the dust, fines and small pellet size. It was just a surprise after the Barefoots were so perfect. Hopefully local bagging will make a difference. Is there any damage resistance difference between hard wood pellets and soft wood pellets, like you would see with hard/soft wood boards, or by this point in the processing, grinding, cutting and compressing, are they about the same? I can crush a pellet easier than I can with the Barefoots. The Okies seem softer. I wonder if I have a moisture issue? Both the Okies and Barefoots came from the same place and both were delivered with their cover and wrap intact.

Anyone know how to read the date codes? The Barefoots are dated '09-10' which I assume means Sept, 2010. Hopefully not Oct 2009. The Okies are in the new red and black bag and the only date code I can find is '210 11 01'. Could this mean Nov 2010?

They seem to be burning OK but don't flow down the sides of the hopper like the Barefoots did. If I don't push them I think they would starve the pellet feed. I had another issue where the pellets fed into the burn pot but didn't light. They just kept on filling the pot. I didn't like the idea of that many pellets in the pot so I opened the bottom clean out and dumped the pellets into the ash pan figuring I would retrieve them later but instead they lit in the pan so I had a nice little fire in the ash pan. I don't know if this had anything to do with the Okies but it never happened with the Barefoots. It hasn't happened again - just that one time.

Anyway, they do seem to be burn OK. I'm going to take some temperature measurements now. I'll post all my results later but I did see 241.5 deg with the Barefoots so If I see appreciably higher with the Okies, all will be forgiven.

 

[jtakeman]

That's wierd, Usually a dusty pellet slides the best in the hopper. Coarse gritty pellets drag their feet on there way to the auger.

Date on the Okies should be 2011(red bags are new this season). 210 might be the day So 210th day of 2011. Don't know what the 01 is for?

Mr Warm, Hopefully will answer and I'll pass it on.

 

[DonD]

That would make sense for the date. Day 210 would put them at the end of July and they were delivered on 9/23 so it's certainly possible.

Yeah, it was funny with the hopper. It was almost like they were creating a dam half way up the hopper. Of course I blame the short pellets for getting all interlocked and the fines for plugging up the remaining holes. :coolsmirk:

 

[DonD]

I don't know - maybe it's a damp bag of Okies or something. I'm not seeing the crazy hot temperatures others are seeing. In fact they are running about 10 - 20 deg cooler that the Barefoots I tested yesterday.

See chart. Temperatures are measured at the exit of each tube from left to right. My Castile has a baffle between tubes 5 and 6. The only difference between the two tests is that I cleaned the stove after the first test. I suspect that might explain the difference (Okies tested hotter) on the far side of the baffle making the 2 averages about the same.

 

[jtakeman]

I was told by an "in" that moisture doesn't effect the pellet as much as we think. It would take a pretty big jump in the moisture content to effect the heat output. Probably best to see if yoo could figure out the moisture content of each to conclude/eliminate it being moisture. It could just be size density making the difference? You did say the okies seemed softer.

Interesting that the heat from tubes 1 thru 5 are hotter with the barefoots but 6 thru 10 are hotter with the okies? Love the charts and graphs! Barefoots beat okies in my stove pellets testing too, Turmans were the coolest of the 3. The difference was minimal from all 3 and I would bet the average user would call them all hot. ;-)

Very interested in what you find with these three brands!

 

[RiddleMasterMorgon]

OPs findings are surprising in more than one way. If you assume a nifty pellet makes realizes that short pellets will help the auger to deliver maximum volume of pellets and hence mass - they should burn hotter than long pellets (diameter is somewhat defined by specs, length is not). Not saying Oakies are cheating, but eventually someone will come up with that (Stove Chow anyone ?).

J incorporated a nice burn time test in his survey as of late and sure enough Oakies are not the longest burning pellets, which combined with heat output should give you the real 'BTU content' of the bag.

I am not surprised by the good Barefoot result - look at how low the bags stack on a crate, thats not a sign for hughe pressure applied during packing, thats a sign for high density of the pellet. High densety pellet, more mass in the pot per amount time, nore heat output per time...but not per bag, since they are all 40 lbs (but per hopper load for us lazy ones).

At the end of the day you can easily identify good from medium from crap pellets, but within these categories they are all the same - and more often than not thats refected by the price.

 

[afrank2442]

i thought the okies were ok...a bit overpriced here on long isle,,,i love the new englanders and awf... i think they burn just as good as okies...and the hammers they worked good too got them for $3.50 a bag at the end of the season last year... this year home depot $ 200 a ton for AWFs

 

[checkthisout]

Okies are probably pine pellets. I think Sap content tends keep fines down and pine trees don't emit much sap most likely because they tend grow in drier climates.

The bags of Blazers I have contain zero fines. If you abuse the bag you can generate fines but they have the consistency of duraflame log sawdust and thus do not become airborne.

 

[jtakeman]

That would make sense for the date. Day 210 would put them at the end of July and they were delivered on 9/23 so it's certainly possible.

Yeah, it was funny with the hopper. It was almost like they were creating a dam half way up the hopper. Of course I blame the short pellets for getting all interlocked and the fines for plugging up the remaining holes. :coolsmirk:

I was way off, Here is the reply from Doug.

that would be Nov 1st, 2010…..why they can't print it like that I have no idea….this would be a green/white bag…..

 

[DonD]

Interesting...

So ‘210 11 01’ is 2010, Nov 1st. Makes sense I guess. At least now we know the code. But they are definitely the black and red bag. Need a picture?

 

[DonD]

Need a picture?

Wait - don't answer that!

 

[jtakeman]

Another reply from Doug,

Have forwarded picture to the mill for a follow up ….. don't think I got the right answer the first time, so I sent it to the mill manager….we weren't using red/black/clear bags till late this spring….

So maybe I was right? Day 210 of 11 last number could be the shift it was filled by???? And we wait!

 

[Fish On]

OK i finally took a look at my bags and was surprise to see the numbers 210 10 47. i have the new bags and i did buy 3 tons in may of this year so if it helps.