Hi all, I recently purchased a charming 1940 farmhouse overlooking the water. I say charming,but not really. The home has cedar siding that is original from 1940. The horizontal siding is only 2.5" to the weather and has numerous layers of paint that are chipping and cracking. I would like to save the siding and try to restore it. I have a liscensed contractor that is going to properly remove the old paint using the lead abatement laws. I understand that sandblasting is not the preffered method due to damaging the wood ,but if you could see what I have to remove you would understand. I checked into soda blasting and had numerous people look at the project ,but nobody seemed interest. After it is sand blasted it will be left in a rough finish. I was going to repaint rather than stain. I am not a painter ,but need to know what kind of primer to use and what type of paint and how many coats? Hand brush or spray on? I think it will absorb alot of material with the rough finish and dont want to waste money on the wrong product?
OLD CEDAR SIDING RESTORE
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semipro
Minister of Fire
I don't think blasting of any kind will work well for this. I suspect that blasting would only lead to bad erosion of the softer portions of the boards with harder painted areas remaining.
There are several different types of paint removal tools that might work though. One uses a heated scraper (I think). This one uses a rotary scraper with dust collection. http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver.html
Maybe the Western Red Cedar Siding or a similar group would have finishing recommendations.
There are several different types of paint removal tools that might work though. One uses a heated scraper (I think). This one uses a rotary scraper with dust collection. http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver.html
Maybe the Western Red Cedar Siding or a similar group would have finishing recommendations.
Maybe walnut media would work?
The two options that I'm familiar with that will work are heat gun and sanding. The early wood would be eaten away with sand blasting as was mentioned earlier. A powerwasher would probably do the same unless you were real careful dialing in the pressure and distance from the house.
Matt
The two options that I'm familiar with that will work are heat gun and sanding. The early wood would be eaten away with sand blasting as was mentioned earlier. A powerwasher would probably do the same unless you were real careful dialing in the pressure and distance from the house.
Matt
If there is lead I expect that most pros would not do the work by blasting as the recomended method of lead removal is by scraping or solvents. A blasting method would spread lead dust over everything and would require full worker protection. There are some blast systems that have built in vacuums that work but they are not suitable for large areas and expensive to run. Cedar is very soft wood, I expect that blasting would ruin the wood as its softer than some of the surrounding paint.
Most of the contractors I have worked with say that its cheaper to replace the siding than try to salvage it as the salvage requires way to much manpower.
Most of the contractors I have worked with say that its cheaper to replace the siding than try to salvage it as the salvage requires way to much manpower.
Lumber-Jack
Minister of Fire
You may not want to hear it, but it just ain't worth trying to restore some things. That's probably why none of the pros you have had a look at the job are interested, they don't want to waste their time, or your money.
I'm a stucco contractor
enovator and often get calls from people who want to put a fresh coat over their old cracked and peeling stucco on their houses. 99% of the time it's a lost cause and not worth trying to fix simply because no mater how many coats of new stucco, or how good a job you do, it will never last because the base underneath is no good and the top coat will eventually crack and peal as well.
In your case you have old siding that has been exposed to the elements for 70 years, I just can't imagine it being in any worthwhile shape worthy of being restored. Even when they restore old heratige houses and buildings it's not uncommon to replace most, if not all, of the exterior wood. They just do their best to replace it with the same type of wood as was formerly on the building, but they do replace it.
The good news is that it's only cedar siding and not stucco you have to strip off, as stucco is about 10 times harder to deal with than cedar.
I'm a stucco contractor
enovator and often get calls from people who want to put a fresh coat over their old cracked and peeling stucco on their houses. 99% of the time it's a lost cause and not worth trying to fix simply because no mater how many coats of new stucco, or how good a job you do, it will never last because the base underneath is no good and the top coat will eventually crack and peal as well.
In your case you have old siding that has been exposed to the elements for 70 years, I just can't imagine it being in any worthwhile shape worthy of being restored. Even when they restore old heratige houses and buildings it's not uncommon to replace most, if not all, of the exterior wood. They just do their best to replace it with the same type of wood as was formerly on the building, but they do replace it.
The good news is that it's only cedar siding and not stucco you have to strip off, as stucco is about 10 times harder to deal with than cedar.
I may be crazy but let me ask a few questions. If I want to keep the nautical appeal of cedar and I know I cant afford to tear it off and replace it with cedar, what are the options? New cedar would cost $10,000, and refurbishing the old would take about $4500 and alot of labor. Ripping it off would be cheap and alot of labor. The front porch consists of 15 small windows with only 3 inches of framing in between, which would make a project out of wrapping and capping. Vinyl would be reasonable to put back on , probably less than $2500, but vinyl on a old farmhouse really looks unattractive. Will the cedar be destroyed so much in the sandblasting process that a good primer and a couple heavy coats of quality paint wont make the wood last another 15 years.
It could be destroyed. Cedar is really soft. My father did the cedar siding on my house with an orbital sander back in the early 80s. I can still see the circular scrape marks in some spots. Why not just scrape what you can off, then use stripper and/or a heat gun to lift the rest. Then go over it with a ROS to make sure there is a good surface to reprime. It may take a while to do, but you will be happy with the results.
Matt
Matt
Yep, watch out if they carelessly use power tool. They are great time savers, but need to be used judiciously, skillfully and carefully.
We had our 86 yr old farmhouse repainted about 4 year ago with Benjamin Moore primer and paint. It's standing up very well so far. I like this paint.
We had our 86 yr old farmhouse repainted about 4 year ago with Benjamin Moore primer and paint. It's standing up very well so far. I like this paint.
I use Ben Moore on the cabin. I use the semi gloss (generic term as I don't remember BMs label) instead of the eggshell as the eggshell didn't hold up where the snow had blown up against the wall and sat against it until spring. The semi held up with the flood also. I had a few small spots that buckled, but I didn't have to repaint. It's good stuff.
Matt
Matt
semipro
Minister of Fire
jimdeq said:
It might last another 15 years but.... The 25 year old cedar siding on my house already has deep grooves where the softer growth wood was eaten away by a pressure washer (only done once by previous owner). These grooves tend to collect water and dirt and they look bad.
EatenByLimestone said:
We have the same wearing condition on our west side. After 86 yrs, the siding is starting to show it's age and the grain is more pronounced. However, since it was repainted it is standing up ok. Only 4 years since the paint job, so we'll see. After the Mooregard primer, the house has Mooregard Low Lustre on the body and Mooregard SoftGlow on the trim. The primer and body paint was sprayed on, the trim hand brushed.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
[ soapbox on ]
I'm strongly in the camp of preserve that siding if you can. Modern wood siding and trim wont last 40 years but that's because of the young, new growth trees its harvested from. I don't know about the 40's but when you look at houses built in the 18th and 19th centuries the dense old growth wood will last pretty much forever if properly maintained.
My house for example... the siding was replaced at some point in the last 40 years, but much of the trim and all the sheathing is 200 year old wood. That old wood is in better shape than the contemporary cedar clapboards. Same thing with the windows - Ive got 100+ year old originals on the second floor that are in far better shape than some 70s replacements on the main level. I've seen houses with 200+ year old original clapboards - beaded edges, handmade nails and all - and there are discussions about restoring such over at old house web.
Whatever you do, please please please don't consider vinyl. Its a quick fix that will only hurt the house in the long run. 20 years of sun and that stuff will be faded and brittle, all the while trapping moisture in the walls if not installed perfectly and causing rot. I wont get into the looks issue.
[ / soapbox off ]
I'm strongly in the camp of preserve that siding if you can. Modern wood siding and trim wont last 40 years but that's because of the young, new growth trees its harvested from. I don't know about the 40's but when you look at houses built in the 18th and 19th centuries the dense old growth wood will last pretty much forever if properly maintained.
My house for example... the siding was replaced at some point in the last 40 years, but much of the trim and all the sheathing is 200 year old wood. That old wood is in better shape than the contemporary cedar clapboards. Same thing with the windows - Ive got 100+ year old originals on the second floor that are in far better shape than some 70s replacements on the main level. I've seen houses with 200+ year old original clapboards - beaded edges, handmade nails and all - and there are discussions about restoring such over at old house web.
Whatever you do, please please please don't consider vinyl. Its a quick fix that will only hurt the house in the long run. 20 years of sun and that stuff will be faded and brittle, all the while trapping moisture in the walls if not installed perfectly and causing rot. I wont get into the looks issue.
[ / soapbox off ]
gpcollen1
Minister of Fire
jharkin said:
While I prefer wood, vinyl has come a long way and is nothing like you describe. I have the cedar discovery shingle...as opposed to generic clapboard vinyl...
http://mastic.com/Products/Siding.aspx
It is not difficult to install properly, should not trap moisture in as it should not let moisture in and it looks pretty damn good.
Sikkens is what I use on my cedar sided home. It's probably the best you can buy. Maintenance product is $75 a gallon but the stuff is incredible the way it weathers and takes multiple coats.
jharkin
Minister of Fire
I am very opinionated on the vinyl topic. I will admit that up front so feel free to disagree...
Having said that I don't think that installing vinyl as a shingle rather than a clapboard does anything to mitigate its inherent problems. Sure maybe the water issue is less - but not gone. And no matter what you do vinyl WILL fade and decay from UV exposure over the years. Then what happens if you have damage and have to replace a small area? Will the shingle still be made and if it is in the same color? Even if you find it an exact replacement wont match the color anymore due to sun fading of the rest, and you cant fix that with paint.
Oh and that's not even going into how one feels about wrapping your house in crude oil or the toxic manufacturing process.
OTOH, what about fiber cement siding? If the original clapboard really is too far gone and you don't want to deal with poor quality modern wood I'd think about that. You can paint it and repair it like wood, none of the toxic concerns of vinyl, and it should last pretty much forever.
Having said that I don't think that installing vinyl as a shingle rather than a clapboard does anything to mitigate its inherent problems. Sure maybe the water issue is less - but not gone. And no matter what you do vinyl WILL fade and decay from UV exposure over the years. Then what happens if you have damage and have to replace a small area? Will the shingle still be made and if it is in the same color? Even if you find it an exact replacement wont match the color anymore due to sun fading of the rest, and you cant fix that with paint.
Oh and that's not even going into how one feels about wrapping your house in crude oil or the toxic manufacturing process.
OTOH, what about fiber cement siding? If the original clapboard really is too far gone and you don't want to deal with poor quality modern wood I'd think about that. You can paint it and repair it like wood, none of the toxic concerns of vinyl, and it should last pretty much forever.
I notice that everone thinks that sandblasting will ruin the wood. What exactly do you mean by this? I understand it will eat away the top layer of the wood ,but does it matter if the wood is 7/16" instead of 1/2" thick. I went and look at a project that my sandblaster did 5 years ago. I was not able to talk with the owner but the paint over the sandblasted cedar was in perfect condition. The wood had a rough appearance that resembled heavy grit sandpaper. I think one issue would be that it would really soak up alot of primer and paint (expensive). I also do not like it when a old home is updated and vinyl siding is installed. In alot of instances it makes the home look out of place or cheap?
The siding's wood grain is not equal density. When it is sandblasted the softer part of the grain is going to be removed at a faster and deeper rate then the harder grain. This makes the siding look rough and grainy. Heat gun and careful power sanding is a better way to keep a smooth finish.
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