.....hello everyone.....new to the forum, and considering buying a pellet stove as the primary heat source for my 20-year-old 2000 sf open-concept 1 1/2 story home near Green Bay WI. It gets quite cold here in the winter, and I'm wondering about how much average daily pellet comsumption I should expect to use. If it's more than 1 bag per day, I don't think that pellets would be my most economical option. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanx. Darryl.
Pellet Consumption.....
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jtakeman
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the group,
I'd say on average you shoud be close to 3.5 to 4.5 tons for soul source of heat. Unfortunately there are lots of variables that have to be accounted for. How tight the home is and the amount of insulation along with window/door quality. Just a few of the many variables. Stove location should be one of your first thoughts. If installed in an area that isn't ideal, You will have to over heat that area to feel comfy in others. This could make or break the fuel budget. Another is stove size. To small and you over work it and be unhappy from the get go.
What is your current heat and how much does it cost per season? With a fuel calculator you should be able to get a rough idea of what it should take for fuel consumption and approximate cost based on the current price of pellets in your area. I'll see if I can find a link to a fuel calculator.
I'd say on average you shoud be close to 3.5 to 4.5 tons for soul source of heat. Unfortunately there are lots of variables that have to be accounted for. How tight the home is and the amount of insulation along with window/door quality. Just a few of the many variables. Stove location should be one of your first thoughts. If installed in an area that isn't ideal, You will have to over heat that area to feel comfy in others. This could make or break the fuel budget. Another is stove size. To small and you over work it and be unhappy from the get go.
What is your current heat and how much does it cost per season? With a fuel calculator you should be able to get a rough idea of what it should take for fuel consumption and approximate cost based on the current price of pellets in your area. I'll see if I can find a link to a fuel calculator.
dgt178 said:
I'm about 10 miles west of Green Bay, and I heat a 2000 sq ft 2 story(12-13 years old) with an average of 180 bags a year.
I consider my home to be very tight, and well insulated.
We are surrounded by open field on 3 sides and get pounded with prevailing westerly wind all winter.
What fuel source are you using now?
btw, welcome.
Darryl, welcome to the forum. Hope you decide on pellets....it's the way to go with today's high fuel prices.
The best way to determine what the "most btu's for your dollar" is to run the current prices for pellets and whatever fuel you're using now through these calculators. You might be surprised:
http://pelletheat.org/pellets/compare-fuel-costs
http://energy.cas.psu.edu/EnergySelector.html
www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
The best way to determine what the "most btu's for your dollar" is to run the current prices for pellets and whatever fuel you're using now through these calculators. You might be surprised:
http://pelletheat.org/pellets/compare-fuel-costs
http://energy.cas.psu.edu/EnergySelector.html
www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
silverfox103
Feeling the Heat
I live in Northern NH, probably similar to the WI winters--cold. I have a 2300sq. ft ranch we used 4 tons. We have an oil fired boiler. By using the pellet stove we probably saved $4000. Any heat we put in the house from the pellet stove saves us money. I can't believe it would be any different for you. For a good part of the winter, we use a bag a day. When it gets below zero weather, probably 2 bags.
Tom C.
Tom C.
silverfox103 said:
Only difference between us here in the NE and the midwest is that oil is a major fuel choice here, but the midwest uses mainly nat. gas or elect., I think.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
thats why I was asking what fuel he is using now.
cause if they have ng they won't realize any savings execpt from space heating.
cause if they have ng they won't realize any savings execpt from space heating.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
smoke show said:
So did I, Example(Both appliances at 80% efficiency):
Pellets at $180/ton=$13.70/million BTU's
Oil at $3.50/gal=#31.70/million BTU's
Savings is approx $18.00 for every million BTU's needed to keep toasty. Less than half the cost of oil. Natural gas maybe a whole other can of beans(you get gas from beans right?).
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
St_Earl
Minister of Fire
lol. i don't think i'd ever use this. she just sends me to the tv room.
*doh! beano pic hotlink failed.*
*doh! beano pic hotlink failed.*
roadking88
Feeling the Heat
RiddleMasterMorgon
Member
I have about a bag a day right now (shoulder season) and will go up to 2-2.5 bags a day in real Winter.
pellets should win over oil and baseboard electric down to about 2-2.50 USD/gallon oil (no exact figure since both prices slide down somewhat related to each other)
however will loose compared to coal and natural gas.
heat calculators will give you the rough figures (remember to go by efficiency corrected BTUs and not the pure fuel energy content), eg geothermal heat output is very interesting in that sense (but rediculous in up front costs).
Of course having two heating sources also doubles your maintenance costs and if you already have a source you need to consider the return on investment for buying/installing a pellet stove. Its NOT quite a no brainer when you factor this all in (plus how your house is layed out and if it is suitable for one-heat-all approach).
Was easy for me to decide - chimney needed fixing anyway, had an open fire place to put it into, oil is now around 3.70 USD this season in my area and Uncle Sam helped with 1500 USD. I calculated that I will break even after about 4-5 seasons, depending how the oil price behaves in the near future of course - covering the whole chimney fix and installation.
My ultimate goal would be to do away with the whole oil hot air furnance system all together...I am afraid that did not work out so far and I still need it for back up and keeping the pipes from freezing
pellets should win over oil and baseboard electric down to about 2-2.50 USD/gallon oil (no exact figure since both prices slide down somewhat related to each other)
however will loose compared to coal and natural gas.
heat calculators will give you the rough figures (remember to go by efficiency corrected BTUs and not the pure fuel energy content), eg geothermal heat output is very interesting in that sense (but rediculous in up front costs).
Of course having two heating sources also doubles your maintenance costs and if you already have a source you need to consider the return on investment for buying/installing a pellet stove. Its NOT quite a no brainer when you factor this all in (plus how your house is layed out and if it is suitable for one-heat-all approach).
Was easy for me to decide - chimney needed fixing anyway, had an open fire place to put it into, oil is now around 3.70 USD this season in my area and Uncle Sam helped with 1500 USD. I calculated that I will break even after about 4-5 seasons, depending how the oil price behaves in the near future of course - covering the whole chimney fix and installation.
My ultimate goal would be to do away with the whole oil hot air furnance system all together...I am afraid that did not work out so far and I still need it for back up and keeping the pipes from freezing
PJPellet
Minister of Fire
jdempsey said:
Where I live the big box stores were at 197.00. Now at 224.00. The "good" pellets at stove dealers, agway, etc. have been at 250-300.00 since Spring. Personally I think pellets are way over priced and some of these places are gouging. However I believe the oil companies do the same thing. Soooo, for me, the pellet dealers are the lesser of two evils. If the pellets keep going up then I will turn on the LP forced air furnace. A lot less work and maintenance anyway. This pellet price thing has been bothering me lately. Way over priced IMO.
....thank you everyone for your great insight....My house is located fairly deep in the woods, and the only available fuel is LP--Liquid Propane, which is currently @$2.39/gal....and in a typical heating season, we could go through 600-800 gals.....OUCH
....plus...my 20-year-old LP gas furnace died last year.....by the way...the house is fairly well insulated (ie, R-38 attic....R-19 walls) with low-E windows and several skylights.........I actually did do the million BTU comparison. and it's true....natural gas is about the same price as pellets in this area....but since I can't get natural gas here yet.....pellets sound like a WINNER....I'm off to Menards to purchase a PelPro high-capacity pellet stove for $899. I've done some research, and it's a plain-jane model, but hopefully will provide adequate heat this season...
....plus...my 20-year-old LP gas furnace died last year.....by the way...the house is fairly well insulated (ie, R-38 attic....R-19 walls) with low-E windows and several skylights.........I actually did do the million BTU comparison. and it's true....natural gas is about the same price as pellets in this area....but since I can't get natural gas here yet.....pellets sound like a WINNER....I'm off to Menards to purchase a PelPro high-capacity pellet stove for $899. I've done some research, and it's a plain-jane model, but hopefully will provide adequate heat this season...
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
What model pelpro is that?
Careful with the BTU's your looking at. I'd kind of lean towards something with some horsepower. Something over 45,000 to 55,000 BTU's net, Not gross. Say closer to 54,000 BTU's or more gross. You definetly don't want to rate the stove at 100%. 65 to 80% duty cycle will make them last longer/easier on them in the long run.
Careful with the BTU's your looking at. I'd kind of lean towards something with some horsepower. Something over 45,000 to 55,000 BTU's net, Not gross. Say closer to 54,000 BTU's or more gross. You definetly don't want to rate the stove at 100%. 65 to 80% duty cycle will make them last longer/easier on them in the long run.
Yes price gouging seems to be an issue in alot of areas. My fear is eventually the savings and this being why most everyone bought a pellet stove will not be justified as far as savings go. Again i know it depends on the area. Ive read on here some peopke paying 5 grand to heat the winter. Damn thats alot. Using pellet heating at the current pricing has to be a huge savings for those people.PJPellet said:
krooser
Minister of Fire
You have to realize that a pellet dealer has expenses...and, contrary to the Occupy! crowd, they also deserve a profit.
I really don't see any price gouging here in Wisconsin...some dealers are at $200/ton...some at $220/ton for the same pellet. Shop around for the best price but figure in the cost for delivery or fuel if you haul your own. With gasoline at $3.35/gallon it doesn't take long to spend $20/ton to travel any distance to get a better pellet price.
BTW...my regular dealer has his 'name brand' Doug Fir pellets priced about $280/ton... great stuff but I paid about $80.00 less this spring for his house brand Doug Fir...
As far as the OP buying that Pelpro stove I guess I'd make a different choice... but we all learn as we go along don't we...
I really don't see any price gouging here in Wisconsin...some dealers are at $200/ton...some at $220/ton for the same pellet. Shop around for the best price but figure in the cost for delivery or fuel if you haul your own. With gasoline at $3.35/gallon it doesn't take long to spend $20/ton to travel any distance to get a better pellet price.
BTW...my regular dealer has his 'name brand' Doug Fir pellets priced about $280/ton... great stuff but I paid about $80.00 less this spring for his house brand Doug Fir...
As far as the OP buying that Pelpro stove I guess I'd make a different choice... but we all learn as we go along don't we...
Yes i understand they deserve a profit. What i do not understand. There are 2 manufacturing facilities for pellets 5 counties over from me. Yet the big box stores here, by me sell them $100 higher than you can purchase them from several states away. It cost more to ship them 2-4 states away we all know that.krooser said:
I tried to purchase directly from the manufacturer but they will not sell them to consumers. If the big box stores there are making some profit at $190 a ton. Then the big boxers here are really doing well. I would think.
Northeaster2010
Member
j-takeman said:
The model is PelPro HHPP2BD. 55,000 BTU. 120# hopper. Nothin' fancy......but hopefully will do the job....thanx. Darryl..
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
jdempsey said:
Regional pricing has a lot to do with competition, supply and demand to name a few. Box stores having a price war is keeping the price lower. If demand is higher than supply one would expect higher pricing in that region, As would lower demand should decrease it. One would think in our slacked economy there isn't room for over pricing.
From what some are saying, They aren't making a profit at the current box store price. We have seen the price increase to $224/ton at a couple of the box stores.
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