Pellet Stove Insert for a newbie

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hemmerdinger

New Member
Nov 2, 2010
13
Northern MA
Hi all,

I'm new to the site and new to pellet stoves.
I'm just about to purchase a new pellet stove insert for a secondary heart source in the living room.

I've read lots of reviews and articles on the different manufacturers.
I'm torn between the Enviro Empress and the Harman Accentra.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob
 
Hey HD,

I have no experiece w/either one, just wanted to say welcome to the forum.

Good to see another New Englandah here!
 
I sent you a PM,

I had the same question last week, I ended up buying an accentra and here is the main reasons:

1) The saleswoman told me that the Empress did NOT have a thermostat, it ran on big flame and little flame system.. it would not turn off by itself .. the harman has a thermostat and will manage itself better

this is how Harman explains it: The Accentra’s on-board microprocessor constantly senses room temperature and automatically makes adjustments in the feed rate and air supply so you get just the right amount of heat. This remarkable technology lets you fill the hopper, set the desired temperature and walk away. The Accentra Insert lights automatically, brings the room up to the exact temperature and will turn off if no heat is required.


2) I think the Harman looks better .. my wife told me so

3) I was told the Cast Iron Harman was quieter, but the Steel Empress is hotter

4) I like the Hopper door on the accentra .. Much, Much larger .. and ince I have to fill it once a day, I would rather have the bigger door

5) I am told that the Harmon has a better auger and can burn any pellet out there

6) I found people impressed with this: Accordion Heat Exchanger - provides greater heat exchange surface in less space

7) Obama is paying 30%, so what the heck .. I'll get the more expensive one

I haven't got mine yet, so I can't give you experience with it, but do a search .. you will find a lot of information here
 
the Harman insert is expensive as heck. Why not go for the Quadrafire Castile or the Mt. Vernon, which is even better if you're going to spend that much?
 
Wilburg said:
I sent you a PM,

I had the same question last week, I ended up buying an accentra and here is the main reasons:

1) The saleswoman told me that the Empress did NOT have a thermostat, it ran on big flame and little flame system.. it would not turn off by itself ..

You should always do your homework. The salesperson if full of do-do and to hype up there stove.

Hate to tell you but the Empress do use a "REAL" thermostat. Not the same as what the Harman has with the probe. And if you want to buy a programmable thermostat for the Harman it its a pricey one, Most likely will need to be ordered as there not easily obtained. You will be limited to just a few models from Honeywell. Good luck trying to use a wireless stat with the Harman. There isn't any as far as I know of.

Where the harman will have Room temp and Stove temp. The Enviro will use any standard millivolt stat and has 2 stat modes. And a manual mode. See quote bellow.

MANUAL MODE:
All control of circuit board function is adjusted at the circuit board.
INITIAL START-UP: Press the ON / OFF button. The stove will turn on.
The Fuel Type Light will flash (the Auger Feed Rate is pre-programmed during start-up). The Heat Level
Indicator will show the Heat Level that the stove will run at after start-up.
If this is the first time the unit has been started or the unit has run out of fuel, the auger may need to be
primed. If there is no fuel in the burn pot after two (2) minutes the liner can be primed with a handful of
pellets .
The agitator will not operate for the first ten (10) minute after the ON button has been pressed. After the ten
(10) minutes it will pulse at the same interval as the feed auger.
When the start-up sequence is complete the unit will ramp up in two (2) minute intervals until it has reached
the designated heat setting.
Once a fire has been established, the convection blower will turn on after ten (10) minutes.
To OPERATE: Press the Heat Level buttons to change the desired Heat Level Output setting.
The speed of the convection blower is controlled by the setting of the heat level.
The Feed Trim button pressed in conjunction with the Heat Level adjustment buttons can be used to adjust the
feed trim. It can be increased by two (2) feed settings or it can be decreased by two (2) feed settings.

HIGH/LOW MODE: (Requires a Thermostat or Timer)
INITIAL START-UP: See MANUAL MODE above.
OPERATION: When the thermostat calls for heat (contacts are closed) the
stove settings are adjustable as per Manual Mode. When the thermostat
contacts open, the HEAT LEVEL and Fans will drop down to the LOW setting until
the thermostat contacts close again. The stove will come back to the previous
HEAT LEVEL setting once the thermostat contacts close.

AUTO/OFF MODE: (Requires a Thermostat or Timer)
INITIAL START-UP: See MANUAL MODE above.
OPERATION: When the thermostat contacts close, the unit will light
automatically. Once up to temperature, the stove operates the same as in
MANUAL. When the thermostat contacts open, the stove’s HEAT LEVEL and Fans
will drop down to the LOW setting for 30 minutes. If the thermostat contacts
close within the 30 minutes, the HEAT LEVEL will return to the previous MANUAL
setting. If the thermostat contacts remain open, the stove automatically begins its shutdown routine. The
stove will re-light when the thermostat contacts close again.

I just want the story straight before the one sided BS crap gets around. The truth be told!
 
Why do you say the Quadrofire is better?
Don't forget I'm just a newbie...

tjnamtiw said:
the Harman insert is expensive as heck. Why not go for the Quadrafire Castile or the Mt. Vernon, which is even better if you're going to spend that much?
 
Thanks. I wasn't thinking of using a thermostat.
Just using it to blast out heat when we want it.
Does that make me sound mad?

j-takeman said:
Wilburg said:
I sent you a PM,

I had the same question last week, I ended up buying an accentra and here is the main reasons:

1) The saleswoman told me that the Empress did NOT have a thermostat, it ran on big flame and little flame system.. it would not turn off by itself ..

You should always do your homework. The salesperson if full of do-do and to hype up there stove.

Hate to tell you but the Empress do use a "REAL" thermostat. Not the same as what the Harman has with the probe. And if you want to buy a programmable thermostat for the Harman it its a pricey one, Most likely will need to be ordered as there not easily obtained. You will be limited to just a few models from Honeywell.

Where the harman will have Room temp and Stove temp. The Enviro will use any standard millivolt stat and has 2 stat modes. And a manual mode. See quote bellow.

MANUAL MODE:
All control of circuit board function is adjusted at the circuit board.
INITIAL START-UP: Press the ON / OFF button. The stove will turn on.
The Fuel Type Light will flash (the Auger Feed Rate is pre-programmed during start-up). The Heat Level
Indicator will show the Heat Level that the stove will run at after start-up.
If this is the first time the unit has been started or the unit has run out of fuel, the auger may need to be
primed. If there is no fuel in the burn pot after two (2) minutes the liner can be primed with a handful of
pellets .
The agitator will not operate for the first ten (10) minute after the ON button has been pressed. After the ten
(10) minutes it will pulse at the same interval as the feed auger.
When the start-up sequence is complete the unit will ramp up in two (2) minute intervals until it has reached
the designated heat setting.
Once a fire has been established, the convection blower will turn on after ten (10) minutes.
To OPERATE: Press the Heat Level buttons to change the desired Heat Level Output setting.
The speed of the convection blower is controlled by the setting of the heat level.
The Feed Trim button pressed in conjunction with the Heat Level adjustment buttons can be used to adjust the
feed trim. It can be increased by two (2) feed settings or it can be decreased by two (2) feed settings.

HIGH/LOW MODE: (Requires a Thermostat or Timer)
INITIAL START-UP: See MANUAL MODE above.
OPERATION: When the thermostat calls for heat (contacts are closed) the
stove settings are adjustable as per Manual Mode. When the thermostat
contacts open, the HEAT LEVEL and Fans will drop down to the LOW setting until
the thermostat contacts close again. The stove will come back to the previous
HEAT LEVEL setting once the thermostat contacts close.

AUTO/OFF MODE: (Requires a Thermostat or Timer)
INITIAL START-UP: See MANUAL MODE above.
OPERATION: When the thermostat contacts close, the unit will light
automatically. Once up to temperature, the stove operates the same as in
MANUAL. When the thermostat contacts open, the stove’s HEAT LEVEL and Fans
will drop down to the LOW setting for 30 minutes. If the thermostat contacts
close within the 30 minutes, the HEAT LEVEL will return to the previous MANUAL
setting. If the thermostat contacts remain open, the stove automatically begins its shutdown routine. The
stove will re-light when the thermostat contacts close again.

I just want the story straight before the one sided BS crap gets around. The truth be told!
 
hemmerdinger said:
Why do you say the Quadrofire is better?
Don't forget I'm just a newbie...

tjnamtiw said:
the Harman insert is expensive as heck. Why not go for the Quadrafire Castile or the Mt. Vernon, which is even better if you're going to spend that much?

No, I meant that the Mt. Vernon is better than the Castile as far as controls and heat exchanger. I can't compare either to the Harman other than I turned down the Harman when shopping because the dealer wanted list price for it, which is not something I ever do. :eek:) Looks like the post up a ways showed you that your 'dealer' was doing more BS'ing without knowing what he was saying. That makes me leery of anything he says. I was just pointing out another option.
 
Why would you NOT want to use a thermostat of some sort? These things are not wood burners where you just toss in the wood and take whatever heat they are willing to blast off. You can actually control the temperature of the room while not over heating it and wasting fuel. You have the tools so use them!
 
hemmerdinger said:
Do I need to run a cable/wire for the thermostat?
Mount it on a wall?

There are wireless options for stoves that use a standard millivolt thermostat. No wire needed to use them. But there about $110.00. You can get a wired stat for about $30 at HD or Lowes.

I recommend a programmable stat that will adjust to your busy schedule. Have the temp lower while you are away or sleeping. Then adjust atomatically to a comfy temp when your home and active. Saves pellet money.
 
well, if you're gonna have a dilemma over 2 units, these are both good choices IMO. If you're looking, and you dont mind the $$ difference you may want to look at the Enviro M55 cast Insert as well (sorry if this adds to the confusion, but its got the agitator in the burnpot which is quite a nice feature). I can't imagine making a decision on a unit based on the thermostatic capabilities, but it happens all the time. FWIW you can put programmable on either unit (slightly more complex on the Harman). If you're planning on using a decent pellet then its a fair choice either way. I like the ash pan on the Accentra better, but I like the face of the Empress better. Both have comparable warranty, similar output, similar noise level. I say you win either way, if it came down to it, I might choose based on your comfort level with the dealership (assumig its 2 diff places).
 
Wireless does interest me.
The stove is going in to the living room directly opposite the thermostat for the baseboard heating in the house.

So, where should the stove thermostat go and do I need to move the other stat?

j-takeman said:
hemmerdinger said:
Do I need to run a cable/wire for the thermostat?
Mount it on a wall?

There are wireless options for stoves that use a standard millivolt thermostat. No wire needed to use them. But there about $110.00. You can get a wired stat for about $30 at HD or Lowes.

I recommend a programmable stat that will adjust to you busy schedule. Have the temp lower while you are away or sleeping. Then adjust atomatically to a comfy temp when your home and active. Saves pellet money.
 
lol ... i dont know how this threa got onto thermostats ...it was only ONE of the points I made

NOTE: IT IS MY FAULT, I GOT CONFUSED WITH THE EF3 AND THE EMPRESS, I WAS SHOPPING BETWEEN THE EF3 AND THE ACCENTRA

some more points that lead me to the accentra

8) Harman has a two year warranty .. since im getting mine in december that mean the warranty covers THREE start ups ... which I assume is a good thing .. Enviro only come with a one year warranty

9) The ash pan seems to be quite a bit larger and easier to get to, which I assume if very important

10) The whole unit seems much easier to clean, including the "rail system" if I should need it

I quantified my response as I am new and do not actually have the unit in my house yet, I was just sharing my shopping experience and points that lead me in one direction versus another.


I did look at the Quadrafire and the Mt. Vernon both fine units, but the service agency is MUCH father away for those units and the distrubutor I am buying the Harman has been in business for almost a hundred years, and I don't see signs of it closing anytime soon. I took advice from this forum that the service center is very important.

Sorry if it seems I was shovelling one sided BS .. I did not mean to leave that impression ... Truth to be told, I did do my homework, thats one of the reasons why I am here.
 
Wilburg said:
lol ... i dont know how this threa got onto thermostats ...it was only ONE of the points I made

NOTE: IT IS MY FAULT, I GOT CONFUSED WITH THE EF3 AND THE EMPRESS, I WAS SHOPPING BETWEEN THE EF3 AND THE ACCENTRA

some more points that lead me to the accentra

8) Harman has a two year warranty .. since im getting mine in december that mean the warranty covers THREE start ups ... which I assume is a good thing .. Enviro only come with a one year warranty

9) The ash pan seems to be quite a bit larger and easier to get to, which I assume if very important

10) The whole unit seems much easier to clean, including the "rail system" if I should need it

I quantified my response as I am new and do not actually have the unit in my house yet, I was just sharing my shopping experience and points that lead me in one direction versus another.


I did look at the Quadrafire and the Mt. Vernon both fine units, but the service agency is MUCH father away for those units and the distrubutor I am buying the Harman has been in business for almost a hundred years, and I don't see signs of it closing anytime soon. I took advice from this forum that the service center is very important.

Sorry if it seems I was shovelling one sided BS .. I did not mean to leave that impression ... Truth to be told, I did do my homework, thats one of the reasons why I am here.

Wilburg,

I don't want to be a pain but your wrong again! Please do more research before posting. Even the EF3 units have more than a 1 year warranty on them. This is from the manual. So the only thing that is covered for 1 year only is the stove exterior finish. The EF3's are the cheapies of the Enviro line up. Please read the following quote

Limited Lifetime Warranty:
Under this warranty, Sherwood Industries Ltd. covers the fireplace or stove body and accessories against defects in materials and workmanship, for part repair or replacement for the first seven (7) years and limited labour for the first two (2) years to the original purchaser. This Warranty covers: Firebox, Heat Exchanger, Burn Pot, Firebox Panels, Ceramic Glass, Pedestals, Panels, Legs, Log Sets and Door Assembly. Please see the exclusions and limitation section below as certain restrictions and exclusions apply to this warranty.

Limited Three (3) Year Warranty
Under this warranty, Sherwood Industries Ltd. covers the Burn Pot Liner against defects in materials and workmanship, for part repair or replacement for the first three (3) years and limited labour for the first two (2) years to the original purchaser. Please see the exclusions and limitation section below as certain restrictions and exclusions apply to this warranty.

Limited Two (2) Year Warranty:
Under this warranty, Sherwood Industries Ltd. covers: Ignitor, Auger Motor, Circuit Board, Timers, Temp Sensors, Blowers, Vacuum Switch and Wire Harness, against defects in materials and workmanship, for part repair or replacement for the first two (2) years and limited labour for the first two (2) years to the original purchaser. Please see the exclusions and limitation section below as certain restrictions and exclusions apply to this warranty.

Limited One (1) Year Warranty:
Under this warranty, Sherwood Industries Ltd. covers all exterior surface finishes against defects in materials and workmanship, for part repair or replacement and limited labour for the first (1) year to the original purchaser. Please see the exclusions and limitation section below as certain restrictions and exclusions apply to this warranty.

I am really glad you like your Harman, That's great. But please don't knock the other stoves while you doing it. Unless you have all the facts. I don't work for Enviro but I like them. I also like the Harman's. Along with several other brands. Every stove out there as a place in the market. If there was only one we wouldn't have any compatition.
 
I am not "intending" to knock other stoves ... If you spent as much time giving the advantages of the Enviro as you did proving me wrong, maybe we would have a better conversation ..... going back to my hole and lurking ... geez
 
Wilburg said:
I am not "intending" to knock other stoves ... If you spent as much time giving the advantages of the Enviro as you did proving me wrong, maybe we would have a better conversation ..... going back to my hole and lurking ... geez

We have a lot of people come here for tips and advice. I just want to be sure the correct info is passed on. I wasn't trying to pick on you. But we must try to be correct in what we say and do. I probably should have sent you a PM with the correct info so you could correct yourself. Maybe I handled this wrong?

Sorry!
 
no problem, I have a lot to learn. obviously I have some talking to with my saleslady. Thank you for the corrected information!
 
I have had an accentra insert for 1 1/2 years now, and love it. It heats my whole house, 2000sq ft, 2 story. I haven't ran my heat pump since I put the stove in. It does get a bit loud when running at full blast, only because it is 6 ft away from the tv. I usually turn down the dist. fan when we are watching tv. We keep our 1st floor at 73, and our 2nd floor will get down to 67 at night.
 
You really should consider the Enviro M55 cast insert. It has everything the Harman has and is quieter and puts out more BTU (55,000). It even has the slide rails for easy maintenance. Personally, I like the looks a little better and it's fire is nicer (wide and tall). Like you I was initially sold on the Harman, but after doing A LOT of research and seeing each stove operating in person, I found that the Enviro was my favorite for how quiet it is, the build quality, agitator system and the reliability. The only thing the Harman was better on (IMHO) was you don't hear the "plink" of the pellets falling down the chute. As a matter of fact, I just put my deposit on my new Enviro today. Can't wait for it to be installed!
Flynfrfun
 
I have an Enviro Empress and I love it. I went with the matte black cast iron. It heats my 900ish square foot home with no problems. You can use it with a thermostat but I haven't hooked mine up that way. Usually I run it on a lower temp when I'm not home and higher when I am. On a basic clean it takes me about 20 to 30 mins ( at most) to empty ash, brush, vacum and clean the glass. I can't imagine the ash pan being any easier to empty - its in the front on the bottom and you turn a screw two times - lift pan and empty. I can't say I've ever used a Harmon. I did look at them when I was shopping for a stove but honestly price and ease of use/cleaning beat them out. I have a friend who is renting a house and its got a Harmon. She didn't have the manual and we were able to download one online. I went through it to help her with the basics and I have to say it looked a lot more complicated then it needed to be in my opinion.

PS. I wouldn't worry about the noise of the Empress. My dishwasher makes way more noise than my stove!
 

I am pretty new to the forum but happened to stumble on your post concerning choosing between the Enviro vs the Harmon. I too was in that dilemma and after close to one years worth of research my wife an I decided on the Enviro Empress Insert and so I thought I would share our experience.

I can tell you that after 3 months of use IT HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT THAT I HAVE EVER HAD!
It was by far the quietest stove on the market and it's low profile and looks were some of the features that we had decided on. I assumed that given the specs that are published on their web site and the specs that I was given by multiple dealers,,,that it would heat the 700 or so sq. feet that I was looking to heat. You see I was not trying to heat my entire home just my family room. I have burned through 1 ton of pellet so far and this thing burns pellets like you can't believe - I can not get 15 hours out of a bag. I can only run it on the highest setting since anything less than that is useless and produces only noise and no heat and just wastes pellets.
They have already replaced the mother board with the latest generation and are now saying that the stove needs to be calibrated. I am waiting on the installer to come out to the house one last time and try to calibrate each setting. I was also able to research and confirm with the manufacturer that the original specs on this stove had to be reduced down to 34K btu and the room size was also reduced. I believe that they will have to do this once again and reduce the specs even lower.
Since the stove seems to be running alright, meaning all fans, motors and augers etc function smoothly, I am pretty certain that tuning this stove will not make much of a difference and can not produce the 34K BTU's that it is rated at.
In the event that I have to sue the dealer, I have already hired a professional HVAC person to monitor my home, He has already measured the BTU output and measured all of the draft and vacuum levels on the stove, including heat output directly standing in front of the stove on multiple occasions and has also started to track heat levels every 10 feet or so through out my room with electronic, highly calibrated thermometers tracked 24 hours a day via an internet based application. Yes you may be thinking that I am spending more money on tracking this than what I spent on the stove and you are right, but it is not about money at this point, but about principal.
I am not sure were this will all end up but all I wanted to do was to put pellets in the stove, hit the button and get heat,,,, pretty simple idea wouldn't you say!
I am not sure if this is helping anyone out there, or if anyone else is having these same problems with this stove and company, but I thought I would post my experience and results for all to see.
I will keep this updated and please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or suggestions for me.
Thanks
 
Well, after a lot of research myself, we decided to go with gas.
As you said - I just want to press a button and get heat.

Good luck, I hope you get retribution.

Rob
 
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