plumbing in circulating pump

[sstan]

I could use some advice .. the ports on my OWB are 1 1/2 inches .. the flanges on my circulating pump are 1 1/4 inch and and my Pex lines are 1" .... keeping in mind that smaller size fittings are cheaper and easier to find (I can't even find a 1 1/4 ball valve) .. is ok to reduce to the 1 inch size BEFORE the pump?

can I reduce to the one inch size right at the ports on the stove and get adapters for the pump flanges or do I have to feed the pump with 1 1/4 inch then reduce to the 1 inch size into the pex lines?

thanks,
steve

 

[Huskurdu]

I could use some advice .. the ports on my OWB are 1 1/2 inches .. the flanges on my circulating pump are 1 1/4 inch and and my Pex lines are 1" .... keeping in mind that smaller size fittings are cheaper and easier to find (I can't even find a 1 1/4 ball valve) .. is ok to reduce to the 1 inch size BEFORE the pump?

can I reduce to the one inch size right at the ports on the stove and get adapters for the pump flanges or do I have to feed the pump with 1 1/4 inch then reduce to the 1 inch size into the pex lines?

thanks,
steve

I'm no pro, I'm struggling with my own system, but....I doubt that it's going to be a big deal to reduce your line size to 1" if your already reducing a short distance away. If you do use the 1" valves right off the bat then be sure to use "full flow Ball valves", they will reduce your head less than a standard ball valve.
On a positive note...I found any valve you could want on pexsupply.com . I've only ordered a couple things from there but they seemed decently priced and easy to deal with. Of course you should always buy locally if you can as you might need their support at some point. Heaterman gave that last bit of valuable advice.
One BIG problem that I ran into that you should be aware of...make sure your lines are large enough if you are running long distances. If you are running more than 60-70 feet with your lines (one way) then definitely consider larger lines, or dual lines. I really got into a pickle on this one.

 

[sstan]

Thanks .. I bought all the fittings in 1" before noticeing the pump was set up for 1 1/4" ... all bought at HD or Lowes and yea they are full flow (local supply house is reluctant to deal with DYI folks). I just wanted to make sure I did not hurt the pump using the 1" flow in .... I am running 1" pex 75 into house then another 30 ft inside the house

 

[taxidermist]

One BIG problem that I ran into that you should be aware of...make sure your lines are large enough if you are running long distances. If you are running more than 60-70 feet with your lines (one way) then definitely consider larger lines, or dual lines. I really got into a pickle on this one.[/quote]



How did you get in a pickle?? I will be running 1" logstore underground pex 145' just wondering what problems I should expect.

Rob

 

[MrEd]

(local supply house is reluctant to deal with DYI folks).

I noticed that too. Even though the local supply house is 1/2 as close as HD, I drive right on by to get to HD. I'd rather deal with a smaller chain, and I'd rather not have to drive the extra distance, but the scowl you get when you come in as a DIY'er is ridiculous...I don't even go in asking questions, just pricing.

This is the actual (entire) conversation:

Dickhead: Who is next?
Me: Hi, can you tell me how much a 10' length of 1 1/4 copper pipe is?
Dickhead: I can tell you right now we can't compete with the prices at Home Depot.
Me: See you later....(and I walk out the door).

Hope this guys gotta out of business with the building slowdown...

 

[pybyr]

(local supply house is reluctant to deal with DYI folks).

I noticed that too. Even though the local supply house is 1/2 as close as HD, I drive right on by to get to HD. I'd rather deal with a smaller chain, and I'd rather not have to drive the extra distance, but the scowl you get when you come in as a DIY'er is ridiculous...I don't even go in asking questions, just pricing.

you just need to check around with some other supply houses.

I got similar inexcuxable treatment from some local supply places, but in my case, the local branch of Granite Group turned out to be phenomenally friendly and helpful to me- and I've given them more than a little direct and referred business as a result.

 

[Huskurdu]

One BIG problem that I ran into that you should be aware of...make sure your lines are large enough if you are running long distances. If you are running more than 60-70 feet with your lines (one way) then definitely consider larger lines, or dual lines. I really got into a pickle on this one.

How did you get in a pickle?? I will be running 1" logstore underground pex 145' just wondering what problems I should expect.

Rob[/quote]

Well it all started......One of the local heating companies told me all I needed (and sold me at an outrageous price) was 1" pex to operate my system, BUT my Econoburn 150 will put out about 120-130 kbtu's which will not be able to be transferred in the 1" pex @ 180' total distance with a reasonably sized pump. As it is, I am using a Taco 007 to circulate the water through my 1" pex with the expectation that it only needs to move ~70-72 kbtu (just enough to heat the house and domestic HW). Now I've got about 50kbtu balance to dump somewhere......so now I've purchased a 500 gallon propane tank and going to dump it there. This isn't a bad thing, but I wasn't expecting to shell out a wad of money this year for my heat storage. I guess the moral of the story is to use large enough tubing to be able to take the entire load of the boiler. This will also give you the flexibility to add zones in the house at a later date if wanted/needed. I do not have that flexibility now unless I run bigger or another set of lines.
Things I've been told....1. if you use too large of a circulator you will waste money on electicity, you may have erosion/corrosion issues due to the velocity of the water, and the larger circs are expensive. 2. Your Delta T will need to increase as your water flow descreases in order to dissipate the btu's. But you can only go so high on your input temp!
My brain hasn't stopped hurting since I started this escapade. I hope you make out better. Thank God for Hearth.com!

 

[taxidermist]

I too was sold 1" for my 140' run and I have a eko 60 with 2-500 gal lp tanks and I was told that would be plenty. I only need a eko 40 for the house but I wanted to heat my shop someday so I will have to build smaller fires until my shop is ready to heat. What I dont understand is most OWB use 1" and some have many more btu to transfer than my Eko.


We will see when I get it fired up.

Rob

 

[Huskurdu]

Maybe the OWB have more jacket water storage therefore they are able to 'buffer' the extra heat rather than have to dump it right away. Just a thought.

 

[Vtgent49]

I'm with pypyr, our local Granite Group Supply house is great. Keep in mind that they can't afford to keep Pro's waiting thru yours and my amatuer questions are answered. And realise that even with 30 years of experience, none of them have done some of the stuff talked about here.

Also, when you need to see/feel things for some new design such as a side-arm or whatever, Lowes dispaly system is much better than HD.

I'm an indoor wood-fired boiler user, and not familiar with OWB needs, and I also wonder why I'd ever consider going outside in a VT winter, when I can feed mine in slippers and a bathrobe? Oh well, back on topic...

Al

 

[mwk1000]

I'm not an expert. I am in the process of installing an eko 60 and when I did my figuring I was able to use an excellent web site for flat plate heat exchangers that help a whole lot in figuring all this. http://www.flatplate.com/resources_SOFT.htm. I was trying to ensure a sanity check on the parts for my system before starting the work/spending the money. I would certainly get the pump flow curves from the manufacturer web site ( I used Grunfos ) and get the headloss.pdf from cozy heats web site and do some simple math and see if it will fit -- And to help understand the issues.

Example: 1" pex has a head loss of 1.25 at 10GPM for 10' of pipe. A 150' run is 15 x 1.25 = 18.75 Head loss ( Just for the pipe itself, no fittings ). This is above what a UPS 15-58 is capable of doing even on high. So you need to select a stronger pump.


http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/GrafikOpslag/superbrute/$File/UPSpecpages.pdf

Working through all this helped me get the confidence that the plan would work. I ended up moving my unit a little closer (50') so that I could feed my heat exchanger 5x12-60 with the smaller pump and still use 1" Pex-al-pex.

My two cents, I'll know in a month or so if the plan works. I have a ~ 1500 Gallon tank ( DIY no pressure ) that I am heating with the heat exchanger. Most of the parts are from Dave at Cozy Heat.