Quad Castile/ Englander/Summers Heat 55-SHPAHL Burning Ideas

[Meneillys]

I have a Quad Castile and my sister has a Summers Heat 55-SHPAHL we both use Cubex in the stove but had to do some stuff to get the best burn out of them due to the pellet density. On my Quad I found that if I opened the ash pan box's door the flame improved dramatically for some reason. I did check to make sure nothing was plugged in the OAK opening and such it just likes the door open better. On the Summers Heat we had the same problem they burned but the flame was a bit lazy so we opened the two clean out plates near the bottom of the stove and tilted them up a small amount and same results on her stove flame is nice and quick now. Don't know if this information might help some people or not. I figured any one with a high density pellet might like it some examples like Cubex, Hammers, Okies, Barefoot, Somerset. They love lots of air!

 

[tjnamtiw]

Are you talking the decorative cast door on the Castile? It shouldn't have any effect on the air going to the burn pot but it sure does help with air out of the heat exchange tubes! I leave mine open when I'm burning unless we have company or the grand daughter. You do have all the holes including the 8 little ones cleaned out in the burn pot, right? Not sure how long you've had it so I had to ask.

 

[Meneillys]

I take the burn pot out every two months a give it a wire brush and weekly I use the tool they gave me. As for the door the one I found to work better when open is the door for the ash pan attached to the bottom of the stove.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I take the burn pot out every two months a give it a wire brush and weekly I use the tool they gave me. As for the door the one I found to work better when open is the door for the ash pan attached to the bottom of the stove.

I haven't had my burn pot out in two years. I don't see any reason to do that. I can scrap the bottom with a wood chisel rotating it as I push down. The scraper they gave me isn't worth a flip. Too flimsy. Also I clean the little holes with a .32 caliber bore brush and the big ones with a .40 caliber brush. Also, from what I've read on the forums, a poorly seated or bad gasket under the burn pot is one major cause of lose of good draft through the holes in the burn pot.

What's really strange is that I don't HAVE a door in front of my ash pan! My stove was built in 2006 and must have sat in inventory for 3 years before I bought it! Grrrrrr. They must have added that door later. When did you install your Castile? Now my Castile is an insert model but that shouldn't make a difference in whether or not it has a door, I wouldn't think.

 

[Meneillys]

I installed mine in 2005. It is not needed but after my father snapped the bolts of when he needed to get the pot out I decided I should take mine out now and then so the bolts don't seize up. You must have gotten the crappy scraper tool my father got that looks like a cheap putty knife. I have a tapered/bent 1/4" steel tool that fits into the holes and cleans them out good. That may be why I had a problem. Do the new stoves have a door I wonder?

 

[DexterDay]

By letting more air in through the ash pan? This is doing nothing for the actual burn air for your pellets. All of your air should come through the pot, and the little bit that comes through your air wash.
I would be leary to try this. If the power goes out, now there is a direct way for smoke to get into the house. Maybe your talking about a different door. (Not the actual ash-pan) Because all of the doors and clean-out plates have gaskets for a reason. To keep all the burn air coming through the pot and the CO out of your house.
Glad your stove and your sisters stove are burning good.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Can you take a picture of this 'door' you are talking about and post it? I'm curious as heck. Also, on the bolts, why not just put some anti-sieze on them and be done with it rather than go through the hassle of paying for a new gasket and getting that sucker in and out?

Like DexterDay said, I don't see how that is helping unless it is just covering up a problem with your OAK not being capable of supplying enough air for some reason.

 

[Vinelife]

Doesn't seem like a good idea to manipulate how the stove was meant to work to try to get a better burn... something probably isn't installed right or its a cleaning issue..

 

[tjnamtiw]

Doesn't seem like a good idea to manipulate how the stove was meant to work to try to get a better burn... something probably isn't installed right or its a cleaning issue..

That's my thoughts too. By letting air in by some other means is only masking the real problem and not solving it.

 

[DexterDay]

I don't understand how it could burn better by creating, essentially an air leak..

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Be careful assuming that certain changes cause an air leak (burn pot bypass). That isn't always the case.

 

[DexterDay]

Be careful assuming that certain changes cause an air leak (burn pot bypass). That isn't always the case.

I'm sorry Smokey.. I should have been more specific. I was talking about the Quad. He referred to his ash pan that he is opening, to get more air. That would be like an air leak. (I.E.- Bad gasket).
The Summers Heat stove I am not familiar with, so no comment on it. He spoke of the 2 clean out plates on it. Don't know if that is upstream from the burn pot? Or just "inside" the stove. So I was just referring to the Castile. As all Quads are very similar. (Except the Mt. Vernon AE)
I would prefer the air to come in through the pot, as burn air, but to each there own.

 

[Czech]

The ash pan on the Castile is outside (below) the firebox, so no, this is not the same as an 'air leak'. Air is drawn from the ash pan compartment through the burn pot air holes, it doesn't matter where the air comes from, either an open ash pan door, oak, cracks, etc. In fact, the ash pan compartment is not air tight at all, so why it would affect the burn is beyond me?

 

[DexterDay]

The ash pan on the Castile is outside (below) the firebox, so no, this is not the same as an 'air leak'. Air is drawn from the ash pan compartment through the burn pot air holes, it doesn't matter where the air comes from, either an open ash pan door, oak, cracks, etc. In fact, the ash pan compartment is not air tight at all, so why it would affect the burn is beyond me?

The air is drawn from outside the stove. Tis the reason, you can put an oak on your stove. Air then comes in through the bottom of the stove, then into the "Sealed compartment" that your burn pot sits in. When you pull your clean out rod, does it swing 2 plates? One is on the bottom of the pot the other to let the ash drop into the ash pan. The ash pan should also be sealed? Isn't there a gasket on it? Try opening your ash pan while your stove is running, and tell me what happens to the flame. The next time you have your ash pan out, look inside and you will not be able to see the actual burnpot, it should be in a consealed chamber that the air comes in. 100% of your air comes in through there so it can go through the holes in the burn pot.( Minus what your air wash brings in from the front of the glass) If it was just Open, the air would take the path of least resistance and just go out the flue, not even bothering to go through the pot. Every stove I have ever seen, has your air coming in through a chamber or channel, underneath or around the pot..
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the burn air should all come in through some sort of channel, every stove Manufacturer is a little different, but the idea stays the same. Not trying to prove anyone wrong, but air coming in thru the ash pan of any Quadrafire, would in fact be considered an air leak.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

DexterDay,

On some stoves the air chamber is the ash pan.

As long as the air has to be sucked through the burn pot everything is wonderful and you have a nice flame and lots o heat.

 

[Czech]

The ash pan on the Castile is outside (below) the firebox, so no, this is not the same as an 'air leak'. Air is drawn from the ash pan compartment through the burn pot air holes, it doesn't matter where the air comes from, either an open ash pan door, oak, cracks, etc. In fact, the ash pan compartment is not air tight at all, so why it would affect the burn is beyond me?

The air is drawn from outside the stove. Tis the reason, you can put an oak on your stove. Air then comes in through the bottom of the stove, then into the "Sealed compartment" that your burn pot sits in. When you pull your clean out rod, does it swing 2 plates? One is on the bottom of the pot the other to let the ash drop into the ash pan. The ash pan should also be sealed? Isn't there a gasket on it? Try opening your ash pan while your stove is running, and tell me what happens to the flame. The next time you have your ash pan out, look inside and you will not be able to see the actual burnpot, it should be in a consealed chamber that the air comes in. 100% of your air comes in through there so it can go through the holes in the burn pot.( Minus what your air wash brings in from the front of the glass) If it was just Open, the air would take the path of least resistance and just go out the flue, not even bothering to go through the pot. Every stove I have ever seen, has your air coming in through a chamber or channel, underneath or around the pot..
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the burn air should all come in through some sort of channel, every stove Manufacturer is a little different, but the idea stays the same. Not trying to prove anyone wrong, but air coming in thru the ash pan of any Quadrafire, would in fact be considered an air leak.

I'll speak for my FS Castile only. One only needs to open the ash pan enclosure door to understand how the stove operates. The pot sits in the bottom of the fire box. The fire box has five major airways, the exhaust via the comb fan (outgoing), the air wash between the glass and the stove body (incoming) and the holes in the fire pot (incoming), and the pellet shoot (incoming), and the firebox clean out slides (incoming if you leave them open). This does not included minor breeches such as the cleaning rod holes, etc. Now within the ash pan enclosure area, you have the bottom of the fire pot hanging there (easily viewable with the door open, one plate that opens the pot for ash removal), the incoming outside air if installed, and various cracks and crannies as this area is NOT sealed. Yes the ash pan door has a gasket, this is for fire protection not air flow. With this said, I politely disagree. The only airways into the firebox are those mentioned above, the only ones from the ash enclosure are the pot holes and clean out slides, neither of which care where they get the air in the ash enclosure (oak, ash door open, cracks in ash enclosure, etc). Opening the ash enclosure door should not affect the burn at all on a Quad Castile.

 

[DexterDay]

Czech...I will stand corrected and apologize.. But where is the air inlet for the OAK? Even if you don't have an OAK, combustion air has to come from somewhere. And is the firebox open to ash pan? Can you see it through your front viewing window? I just don't understand why the air would choose to go through the pot if it could just come in and go up and out the stove? How does it choose to go through the pot? I know its a lot of questions. But I was just looking into buying a Santa Fe or Castile, before we bought the Fahrenhiet. And they seemed to be similar to my CB 1200. I know its a lot of questions. But now I'm curios? If there is no box that the firepot sits in? My 1200 has 2 clean out plates and I can't see the pot at all from the bottom ash pan. There is just another plate. 1 plate for the pot. The pot sits in the chamber where inlet air comes through. Ignitor is in this area also. Then there is another plate directly below where the pots clean out is. When you pull the Rod, both of these open, allowing ash to drop into ash pan. My ash pan is visible through the front window. Without this chamber I don't get how the air "decides" to go through the holes in the burn pot. . . Again I apologize, I was almost positive they were same. I know when to stand down. But you have my brain turning now. When I get home, I got some homework to do.. Thanks for the schooling.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

On the Castile that Czech has you can not see into the ash pan from the window.

 

[Czech]

Dex no biggy! Don't apologize, I took no offense at all. If you think of the firebox as just that, a box, and picture the pot hanging out the bottom and the comb fan pull air out the top, that's about it. Only place for the air to come in to offset the outgoing air is the pot holes. Now this is over simplified, there are many other areas to deal with also as mentioned above. The oak connection is on the bottom of the ash box, it's an adaptor that has little legs to slide it up and in. Actually, to the OP, have you checked this connection? It gets pretty narrow where it connects and I wonder if this gets plugged it would cause enough of starvation of air to the ash box that may show when the ash door is opened? In fact, I'm convinced that oak/air supply hole has got to be plugged somewhere, only thing that makes sense with the ash door open effect. Check under the metal ash pan liner that the pan itself sits on, if you have a lot of spilled ash (or something else) underneath you may be blocking incoming air.

 

[DexterDay]

[quote author="SmokeyTheBear" date="1297126746"]On the Castile that Czech has you can not see into the ash pan from the window.[/quote

Then that makes sense. I thought it was open like mine. There had to be something that was sealed, so there is a way to direct the air through the pot. I have officially been schooled.

 

[tjnamtiw]

To me it sounds like the Classic Bay is quite a bit different than my Castile insert. In fact, with some of the things I'm hearing, even the Castile FS might be quite a bit different than my stove! I have NO door closing off the ash pan access area. When I pull my cleaning rod, only my ash dump on the bottom of the burn pot opens. It isn't hooked to the two ash dump plates. Those have to be pulled manually just as on the Sante Fe.

The OAK air inlet on mine is a 2" diameter hole in the back right side wall of the ash pan area under the burn chamber. The ash pan height is sloped down from front to back so that it clears the hole and sits against the back wall 'moderately' sealing off that surface from under the pan. The pan slides on two pieces of angle with the point facing up. This leaves a gap under the pan plus I can see into the burn pot bottom through a gap above the pan and the body. When you pull the pan out, the igniter and bottom of the burn pot is staring your right in the face.

 

[smalltown]

I agree with Czech 100%
It sure sound like your air intake is restricted.
I let my Castile freestanding cool off and took some pictures.

The outside air kit has a bracket called a channel that is held onto the rear of your convection blower by two screws. The outside air pipe connects to the channel.
Outside air travels through this channel and up through a round hole in the bottom of your Castile. The air enters under the ash pan heat shield and in the picture you can see openings (red arrows) for the air to flow out and around the ash-pan helping to keep it cool and then the air heads to underside of your burn-pot.

I would check as Czech stated your air intake at the bottom of the stove by removing the two screws in the back and the channel will drop down and pull back exposing the hole on the stove bottom. You may or may not be able to see the hole very well as there is not a lot of room under there, but a mirror might help. I just tried mine with the channel still attached and could see a little.

Also check the ash pan area with the ash pan removed to see if all the air holes are clean and open. After I took the photo I inserted my pellet vacuum nozzle in there and it cleaned right up.

I am not quite sure why you have been removing the burn-pot as I haven't needed to do that. I would just be sure it's scraped if need (door operating easily and all the holes verified open). Isn't there a burn pot gasket. Could you have damaged the gasket removing the burn pot so many times?

There are two things I can share about my own burn pot. I noticed this winter that while pulling the clean out rod while the stove front door was open that the burn pot was moving. I found the two bolts that hold the burn pot were loosening up. Normally when the clean-out rod is pulled I'll bet most people have their stove door closed and wouldn't see that movement.

Also included are a couple of pictures of the burn-pot the first one shows the burn-pot if I stick my big fat head in the stove and look directly down. Looking straight down you cannot see the air holes in the front so I took another photo using a mirror. The second photo was taken with a mirror allowing me to look backward toward the front bottom to show people that there are indeed four more air holes two on either side (red arrows) of the igniter hole.

I certainly would not operate that stove with the ash pan door open.
Hope this helps.

 

[tjnamtiw]

FYI, here are the differences between the free standing Castile and the insert. I've attached pictures to show the difference. In the one picture you can see that the OAK is attached at the rear of the ash pan area. In the second picture you can see why, since the ash pan area sits right on the bricks and you can't feed air under the ash pan. Lastly, the picture shows how the ash pan is cut down at the back so that the OAK hole clears the pan. Just thought you might want to know that when we go to help a fellow insert owner.

 

[Meneillys]

I dont have the door wide open first off so I am not afraid of fire in the house. I also do no have a problem with most pellets just the ones that seem to be dense and need lots of air. I have completely removed and cleaned every hole that leads out of the ash pan and check the oak for any restrictions. I do not know why I get a better burn I just do and figured I would post it. I think I will keep my back woods tips to myself from now on. Some stoves have no control over pellet feed and combustion fan speed other than low med high and a junky little plate that slides in the stove. The englander only has 1-9 and some pellets need more air than the factory settings let them have.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Man, I sense hostility that I don't believe any of us meant to stir up in you. Please don't take it personally if we give suggestions or try to help. It's just that I believe it's the first time we've heard of this and are trying to figure it out in our own minds. For me, it's been a revelation about the differences in Castile stoves. So we are all learning something. I wouldn't be surprised if at least a couple of readers have their ash doors open a little right now experimenting. %-P If you look at a couple of my posts, I've been doing a LOT of experimenting with trying to get more heat out of the 'cave man' designed heat exchanger in my stoves. If I kept this experimenting to myself, there wouldn't be about at least 4 other people on here doing the same things.
So don't take it too seriously and turn the 'BS' filter way up Hope to see you stick around.