Question regarding selling standing timber

[Bocefus78]

I just purchased 5 acres of woods for rec purposes, and admittedly, I'm a city boy born and raised. I know nothing about living in the woods.

It has been logged in the distant past and I say that because there are very few oaks, hickorys, walnuts, etc. What I do have is a bunch of very nice straight maples that are all 22" DBH or so minimum. No branches for a LONG ways on almost all of them. I am considering taking them out to offset the cost incurred with the property.

What questions should I be asking when interviewing timber consultants? I do not live near here so I do not know any locals.

How are timber prices are the moment?

From what Ive seen, almost everyone wants 5 acres minimum before they will even come make a visit. What kind of money can I expect from this selective? I know it all varies on trucking, species etc...Am I looking at $500, $5000, or what? I would just like to hear a few examples I guess. I asked one neighbor who said he got $2500 for clearcutting 3 acres of mostly crap trees. Anything of size, was aready gone.

I will have them leave the tops for firewood, where the neighbor sold it all.....pulp, cord, whatever.

I look forward to any help.

 

[smokinj]

You have any idea of the number of maples and kind of maple?

 

[nrford]

Timber prices are poor right now!! I'd wait unless absolutely necessary!
Nearly 25 years in sawmill industry, left in June because things are relly rotten in hardwoods now.

 

[smokinj]

Timber prices are poor right now!! I'd wait unless absolutely necessary!
Nearly 25 years in sawmill industry, left in June because things are relly rotten in hardwoods now.

Yea I am thinking the Purdue extion saying from 200.00-1200.00 per millon board foot. Does that sound right?

 

[jimbom]

Look for some help from your state. This site is good: http://www.callb4ucut.com/indiana/Home/tabid/176/Default.aspx Have the free landowners guide sent to you. This program is active across the midwest. Missouri state forestry people recommend it.

http://mdc.mo.gov/landwater-care/forest-management Is some Missouri state government advice. Look at the PDF Forest Management Book on line. It is good. I am sure your state has some good information also.

 

[Bocefus78]

I'll know more on the number and species on Friday. Plan on doing a pic inventory.

 

[smokinj]

I'll know more on the number and species on Friday. Plan on doing a pic inventory.

Now your thinking. Grade has alot to do with it. Not sure but I think they do that as the logs are coming out.

 

[Danno77]

I do not recommend doing what you are looking at doing to the average landowner, but you have to decide what you want on your own.

Our timber was left a big mess and we wish we had never had it done.

Think really carefully about the access to the wood. Expect that access to be trashed. Think carefully aout the trees surrounding the trees you'd like to sell. Those trees will be gone. Our family owns quite a bit more timber than 5 acres. I personally have three acres of my own and I can't imagine (knowing what it looked like when they came in before) that same mess over my 3 acres. It would be completely trashed. Maybe on smaller acreage they use different machines and methods. Just ask lots of questions and be informed of exactly what will be going on. Specifically, get the best possible picture of what it will look like when they roll out. Get it in writing to be safe. Don't take a simple "get these trees and pay this much" contract. Our contract spelled out a lot of things, but if we had know the scope of the access needed we might have made some different specifications in the contract. They didn't do anything contractually wrong, but we (Grandpa) just didn't understand what we needed to be asking.

 

[Bocefus78]

I do not recommend doing what you are looking at doing to the average landowner, but you have to decide what you want on your own.

Our timber was left a big mess and we wish we had never had it done.

Think really carefully about the access to the wood. Expect that access to be trashed. Think carefully aout the trees surrounding the trees you'd like to sell. Those trees will be gone. Our family owns quite a bit more timber than 5 acres. I personally have three acres of my own and I can't imagine (knowing what it looked like when they came in before) that same mess over my 3 acres. It would be completely trashed. Maybe on smaller acreage they use different machines and methods. Just ask lots of questions and be informed of exactly what will be going on. Specifically, get the best possible picture of what it will look like when they roll out. Get it in writing to be sure. Don't take a simple "get these trees and pay this much" contract. Our contract spelled out a lot of things, but if we had know the scope of the access needed we might have made some different specifications in the contract. They didn't do anything contractually wrong, but we (Grandpa) just didn't understand what we needed to be asking.

Man,that's exactly what I am scared of. I figured on 5 acres it'll be dudes with saws.....not fellerbunchers.
Danno, I am sorry that happened to the fam farm. That is specifically why I started this thread however.....to hear the experiences. Thank you.

 

[Danno77]

Man,that's exactly what I am scared of. I figured on 5 acres it'll be dudes with saws.....not fellerbunchers.
Danno, I am sorry that happened to the fam farm. That is specifically why I started this thread however.....to hear the experiences. Thank you.

If they can do it like that, then it's a whole different ball game and could be totally worth it.

 

[Bocefus78]

I'll know more on the number and species on Friday. Plan on doing a pic inventory.

Now your thinking. Grade has alot to do with it. Not sure but I think they do that as the logs are coming out.

End grain must have something to do with the equation????

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I do not recommend doing what you are looking at doing to the average landowner, but you have to decide what you want on your own.

Our timber was left a big mess and we wish we had never had it done.

Think really carefully about the access to the wood. Expect that access to be trashed. Think carefully aout the trees surrounding the trees you'd like to sell. Those trees will be gone. Our family owns quite a bit more timber than 5 acres. I personally have three acres of my own and I can't imagine (knowing what it looked like when they came in before) that same mess over my 3 acres. It would be completely trashed. Maybe on smaller acreage they use different machines and methods. Just ask lots of questions and be informed of exactly what will be going on. Specifically, get the best possible picture of what it will look like when they roll out. Get it in writing to be safe. Don't take a simple "get these trees and pay this much" contract. Our contract spelled out a lot of things, but if we had know the scope of the access needed we might have made some different specifications in the contract. They didn't do anything contractually wrong, but we (Grandpa) just didn't understand what we needed to be asking.

This is the reason why, before selling, you check on properties that the company has cut on before. Simply put, some skidders know what they are doing and some don't. For example, a neighbor sold off some timber several years ago and the trees to be cut were marked for cutting. They took those okay, but when skidding out the logs they ruined the rest of the woods. That had to then be sold as firewood as it was not marketable timber yet (too young). That particular fellow has a nasty habit of doing this. I know of another fellow who skids and rarely marks another tree with the skidder or a log. It's all about knowing what you are doing and caring about the property owner.

My guess is you are looking at soft maple. I doubt you will get enough dollars to make it worthwhile today. The lumber business is really down right now. We've had several mills close down lately here. Mills that have been in business many decades.

 

[Wood Duck]

My dad had about three acres with a few really nice, large Red Oaks that he sold. I am not sure what he got for the trees, but the land was, and still is, a mess afterward. No way it was worth it in my opinion.

 

[JustWood]

Hard maple is up now but still off 30-50% from what it was 5 years ago. Markets right now are so spec specific that they change literaLEE overnight.
5 acres can easily be skid with horses. If your concerned about it ,,,, demand it. Every mill worth it's salt knows at least one horse crew. That size timber is a horse crew wet dream.
If it were my 5 acres I woodn't touch it but then again I'm not there to see it. If it were dying or age degrading I wood cut it . If it were healthy I'd let it grow.

 

[smokinj]

Hard maple is up now but still off 30-50% from what it was 5 years ago. Markets right now are so spec specific that they change literaLEE overnight.
5 acres can easily be skid with horses. If your concerned about it ,,,, demand it. Every mill worth it's salt knows at least one horse crew. That size timber is a horse crew wet dream.
If it were my 5 acres I woodn't touch it but then again I'm not there to see it. If it were dying or age degrading I wood cut it . If it were healthy I'd let it grow.

Well if we could ever get you here.... ;-) I hear hes got some pic's though.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

timber prices are bad now and 22 inches they will probably laugh at. I brought some 30 inch Oak and Cherry to a mill this year and I could get more selling it as firewood. So I took it back home to mill myself. They want the really big stuff to make it worthwhile, and now is not the time to sell and 5 acres is pretty small, probably not worth the effort.

 

[mitchinpa]

When we bought our 2.5 acres 6 years ago, an adjoining property owner approached me about having someone come in and do a selective cut of both our properties, which totaled a little better than 5 acres. The company that came in made one path through both properties so they could get a truck in to load the tress. All the cutting was done by 3 or 4 Amish guys. Lots of branches left, and some sections of trees that might have been bad, but it wasn't that much of a mess, and in the middle of summer, the area is still thick enough that you'd never know they were there.
All that leftover wood supplied me with my firewood for 5 years! 95% of it was cherry. The company paid me $3000, and my neighbor $2700. But again, that was 6 years ago, so I have no idea what prices are like now.

 

[Wood Duck]

To me the mess to worry about is disturbed soil, not tree tops. Tree tops are just firewood waiting for you to cut, and it you do nothing they'll rot in a few years. The bigger problem is soil that is rutted, bulldozed into piles, scraped down to mineral soil, etc. and any root balls that get pushed out of the ground. Soil is very hard to put back, and once disturbed you will probably get lots of invasive species (here it would be honeysuckle shrubs and autumn olive) that will be a pain and degrade your wildlife habitat for years. probably forever. Roots balls have the same problem as soil plus they're impossible to do anything with unless you have your own heavy equipment.

I think it is very possible to log without destroying the forest floor, but it is not guaranteed.

 

[smokinj]

timber prices are bad now and 22 inches they will probably laugh at. I brought some 30 inch Oak and Cherry to a mill this year and I could get more selling it as firewood. So I took it back home to mill myself. They want the really big stuff to make it worthwhile, and now is not the time to sell and 5 acres is pretty small, probably not worth the effort.

Mills around here dont want the big ones. I think 28 is there max.

 

[Thistle]

Anyone wanting advice on managing their timber or thinking of selling it should contact their County or District Forester in your State's DNR office first.They will take a few hours & visit your land with you.Tons of practical free info & they'll point you to a list of reputable log buyers if you're interested.

 

[jimbom]

Anyone wanting advice on managing their timber or thinking of selling it should contact their County or District Forester in your State's DNR office first.They will take a few hours & visit your land with you.Tons of practical free info & they'll point you to a list of reputable log buyers if you're interested.

+1 I found this same thing true where I live.

 

[Bocefus78]

Anyone wanting advice on managing their timber or thinking of selling it should contact their County or District Forester in your State's DNR office first.They will take a few hours & visit your land with you.Tons of practical free info & they'll point you to a list of reputable log buyers if you're interested.

The DNR office happens to be just right down the road! Maybe I will stop in there this weekend!

 

[indiana4spartans]

Anyone wanting advice on managing their timber or thinking of selling it should contact their County or District Forester in your State's DNR office first.They will take a few hours & visit your land with you.Tons of practical free info & they'll point you to a list of reputable log buyers if you're interested.

Yeah - this. In Indiana, you can call a state forester (map online) close to you and they will assist. The nice thing about going through the state is they want to help you "manage" your woodlot. Which means long term not just short term, cut some trees, make some money. Brought in a guy in my area a few years ago to walk my woods, plus the 20+ adjacent acres, to see if it was worth my trouble trying to buy. Great day walking through the woods and learned a ton.

My problem and Your problem? Woodlot is too small to be attractive for long-term management/investment. Did learn from him that in Indiana, a good hardwoods forest should plan on $300/acre/year and then you plan on cutting every 10-12 years. Great investment if you have enough woods and young enough to see benefit.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add here that hasn't already been said . . .

Right now pulp and timber prices are not all the great from what I've been seeing . . . maybe things are different where you are, but I suspect there's not a whole lot of folks doing kitchen renovations who want maple kitchen cabinets or maple flooring . . . not to mention not a lot of new homes being built.

5 acres is kind of a small wood lot for around here . . . honestly it would be right on the border of whether it would be worth harvesting . . . speaking with an expert would help. While a crew may not come in with a fellerbuncher, as stated, one guy with a saw and skidder can really tear up an area, rut up the land and trash a lot of trees as they pull them out . . . on the other hand one guy with a small tractor or team of horses can leave the area so that it looks fine in a few years.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

timber prices are bad now and 22 inches they will probably laugh at. I brought some 30 inch Oak and Cherry to a mill this year and I could get more selling it as firewood. So I took it back home to mill myself. They want the really big stuff to make it worthwhile, and now is not the time to sell and 5 acres is pretty small, probably not worth the effort.

Mills around here dont want the big ones. I think 28 is there max.

That seems strange Jay, the way it is explained to me once you square up the log you really do not get that much. Also I found it was better to give the a shorter log than a longer one because they would only pay for thickness based on the smaller end of the log.