Saranac filled with smoke, then a huge flame.....scary

[Jamcelhinney]

Hi guys, hope someone here can give me some guidance!

Yesterday the stove was on for about 6 hours before this terrifying situation.

My husband looked up and noticed that the stove was filling with smoke. He quickly jumped up and shut the stove off. Then, as the smoke was swirling, a noise sounding like a "whoosh" was heard and a large flame was in the stove (The stove is powered off at this point). I ran into the kitchen to grab the fire extinguisher, heart pounding, ready to call the fire department. We watched the stove for the next 30 minutes, and the fire died out and the stove went through it's normal shut down procedure.

After this situation, I am really hesitant to use the stove again, as it really scared the crap out of me.

Has anyone else had this happen to them, or heard of this happening? My husband is going to talk to the dealer today, but I wanted to hear what other people have to say as well.

We have the Hudson River Stone Works Saranac Insert model

 

[3fordasho]

I can make my Fireview do that at will. All I have to do is throw a bunch of fresh splits on a well established hot coal bed and turn the air down so low that there is no flame. The wood will outgas and than flash off, it even can lift the top lid of my Fireview slightly letting a bit of smoke smell into the room. I just open the air a bit so there is some flame in the firebox and it won't do it.

 

[Shari]

Yup - your fire was oxygen starved. When it sucked in enough air it flamed. Now, not turning the stove air down too will resolve this issue - but - there may be other issues at work here.

Tell us your chimney set up (length, material, lined, insulated, etc.) and tell us what schedule you have for cleaning your chimney.

It could be your chimney or cap is restricted by creosote build up causing lack of draft (air) which set this whole scene in motion.

Oh - welcome to hearth.com! There are lots of gurus here willing to help!

Shari

 

[BrotherBart]

Since you have a pellet insert I am moving this to the Pellet Room so you can get more relevant advice.

 

[jtakeman]

We have a member named SmokeyTheBear and he owns a Saranac. He'll be here in a bit to assist you!

But it sounds like your stove could use a good cleaning or at least the burnpot holes could be clogged with carbon?

 

[Turbo-Quad]

My Quad Mt Vernon does this on intial light up and after it reaches temp, shuts down, then re-starts. I just thought it was normal.

 

[Turbo-Quad]

My Quad Mt Vernon does this on intial light up and after it reaches temp, shuts down, then re-starts. I just thought it was normal.

BTW ..... j-takeman, why did you retire your quad?

opps sorry for the double post. guess there was some lag before the edit.

 

[cncpro]

I've also come to the conclusion that this is relatively normal for a pellet stove.

In my CB1200 it happens when the stove is still hot from the last thermostat cycle then the thermostat calls for heat again. Pellets start to feed and since the thermocouple is still reporting "proof of fire" the pellets keep on coming after the initial pellet drop required to start the fire. This results in a slightly heavy load of pellets in the pot smoldering over the ignitor and filling up the stove with thick clouds of smoke. When it finally does ignite there is definitely a whoosh and my CB1200 even belches a little bit of visible smoke through the door seal. Then that hot load of pellets starts roaring and you get a BIG fire in the pot and all the way up the back of the stove maybe even tickling the glass a little all while the auger keeps dumping even more pellets in the pot.

It is scary as hell the first few times but then you get used to it and you'll hardly raise an eyebrow by next season. This is why they make the stove from steel and glass and you have to put it on a hearth pad.

About the only thing you can do is change the settings in your programmable thermostat to attempt to have a larger "swing" between the temp the stove comes on at and where it shuts off. This allows time for things to cool off between cycles.

It's smart to ask the dealer as well but I expect he'll say something similar to this.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well first there is no damper to play with and no adjustments on the controller for tweaking the combustion fan.

What you describe is a very common occurrence when something gets heated past the normal ignition temperature in a air starve situation. The fuel generates a lot of flammable gases and finally gets enough air to go poof or boom or whoosh and scare the crap out of someone.

What you need to do is clean that puppy out along with the chimney.

And by clean that puppy out I mean shut it down, let it completely cool, clean off and remove the nuisance parts, log set and fake fire brick.

Operate the the exchanger scrapper several times and using a bottle brush continue cleaning the exchanger. Running the vacuum nozzle close to the brush as you clean this cuts down on the dust. Make certain that you push the scraper handle all the way to the back of the stove.

Then on each side there is a baffle held on by Phillips head screws removing one side at a time you'll locate each of the two ash traps, using a vacuum with a Hepa filter scrap and suck up all of the ash in that trap and make certain you run the nozzle all the way up on each side. Then down at the bottom of the trap you should see a rectangular hole this goes all the way to the combustion blower cavity. Using a piece of hose attached to the vacuum clean this out.

Replace the first baffle. Do the second baffle. Once you have each baffle done you can continue brushing down the fire box and emptying the burn into the ash pan.

Remove the ash pan from the stove and house. Put the ashes into a metal ash can. Bring the pan back into the house and insert it into the stove making certain that it seals tight.

The next part requires that the insert be pulled to allow access to the combustion blower, you also need a replacement combustion blower gasket.

You need to pull and clean the combustion blower fan do not attempt bending any of the fans fins just scrape and vacuum the crud off, then you can vacuum and scrap the blower cavity.

Could you tell me about how your venting is set up inside of the fireplace and if you are running with an OAK (Outside Air Kit). I'd also like you to describe the burn pot and let me know when it was made and if any changes have been made or parts replaced.

Basically if the stove was not operating in on off mode and had not just been started we are looking at a possible combustion fan thermal shut down a rapid cooling and then restart of the fan or something fell into the venting or the air intake. If it was a thermal shut down of the combustion fan then cleaning the stove and the venting will frequently be all that is needed, if the combustion fan it self is failing it will have to be replaced. I would have expected a vacuum shutdown if the fan were failing though.

How many bags of pellets have you burned since cleaning the stove like I have outlined and remember there is still more to clean?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Oh and for additional information the same thing is known to happen in oil fired heating systems as well.

 

[jtakeman]

BTW ..... j-takeman, why did you retire your quad?

Too small to heat the house in the bitter cold and way too many over-fires. She's tired! But ran till the day I pulled her out. I may clean,paint, and rebuild her some day. Might make a nice shop heater or if its pretty enough. Put it in the den? We were hoping to find a bit larger house one day but that's a story for another day!

 

[Doocrew]

Hi guys, hope someone here can give me some guidance!

Yesterday the stove was on for about 6 hours before this terrifying situation.

My husband looked up and noticed that the stove was filling with smoke. He quickly jumped up and shut the stove off. Then, as the smoke was swirling, a noise sounding like a "whoosh" was heard and a large flame was in the stove (The stove is powered off at this point). I ran into the kitchen to grab the fire extinguisher, heart pounding, ready to call the fire department. We watched the stove for the next 30 minutes, and the fire died out and the stove went through it's normal shut down procedure.

After this situation, I am really hesitant to use the stove again, as it really scared the crap out of me.

Has anyone else had this happen to them, or heard of this happening? My husband is going to talk to the dealer today, but I wanted to hear what other people have to say as well.

We have the Hudson River Stone Works Saranac Insert model

How are you making out with your problem?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

We haven't heard from the OP in any manner yet Doocrew.

 

[Doocrew]

We haven't heard from the OP in any manner yet Doocrew.

Me thinks you hit the nail right on the head. That baby just needs a good ole fashioned cleaning. I would be interested in finding out how many tons have been through that unit without a thorough cleaning.

 

[Pellet-King]

Problem was the flame was low, the auger dropped pellets that didn't ignite, after a full grate they finally ignited....if you burn at a low setting, esp #1 it can happen, if i burn my whitty on a #1 it can go out.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Problem was the flame was low, the auger dropped pellets that didn't ignite, after a full grate they finally ignited....if you burn at a low setting, esp #1 it can happen, if i burn my whitty on a #1 it can go out.

Maybe, however I've burned my unit on 1 - (feed trim setting lights 1and 4 on, for extended time periods like better than 3 weeks) which is lower than 1 on that unit using many different brands of pellets and have never had the fire box fill with smoke.

Every time I've seen any amount of smoke building up in the firebox has been when the stove was dirty and was being restarted.

 

[jtakeman]

I just have to post this vid! I love it but the music is rather loud! So turn the speakers down!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I was wondering when that one was going to get reposted.

 

[jtakeman]

I think that is a dirty stove video if I ever saw one! SO a dirty vid for the stove guys. Girls look away please! hehe

 

[Doocrew]

I was wondering when that one was going to get reposted.

I had the same thought. Correct me if I am wrong but that sure looks like a bag of Maine Woods pellets laying beside the stove.