I was just talking with the wife, and was trying to figure out (and explain to her) how much we are saving burning pellets. Home heating oil here is currently 2.99 a gal and pellets are as cheap as 187 a ton (at lowes). I just wondered at this rate what is the savings /payoff of my pellet stove installed 2 years ago that cost me 3600? I was burning about 800 gal a year of fuel oil, now Im burning about 200 gal. of propane for hot water and Im averaging 5 tons of pellets ayear. Propane here now is cheaper than oil, but usually about the same. The 5 of us (4 f and 1m) do use a lot of hot water, and the house is always between 68-70 degrees.any thoughts?
simple math(for some)
- Thread starter morsnow
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Bet you tried to get somebody to do your homework in grade school too....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Your savings are inversely proportional to the number of women folk in the household, in your case that translates into you have no savings :zip: .
I went from 1600 gal of propane to 350@ $3.09 per gal. Stove cost me $1600 with pipe and hearth. 3 ton of pellets @ $206 per ton. I kept the house @ 64 degrees on propane. Now we have 69-70 degrees with our stove. Saving a ton of cash. Haven't compared the electric bill from last year yet. Anyone else know what they have paid extra in electric??
littlesmokey
Minister of Fire
WE're really being tough today, aren't we?? But the suggestion is a good one. Use the fuel calculator as a basis. Take the total cost of the stove and install and amortise it over say five years. Because you are calculating your cost based on a set of 1m Btu, divide your total annual usage by one million and use that factor to figure your totals. Subtract the two and there is your savings.
Yes sir I am trying to be a nicer, kinder, gentler geezer...... but it's tough.
Yes sir I am trying to be a nicer, kinder, gentler geezer...... but it's tough.
RiddleMasterMorgon
Member
Thats like high school math tests...lets see what is the information that is supposed to confuse us...ah there it is: Hot water/propane consumpntion is independant of your stove/furnace/heating costs, so that is the same regardless. Of course, since the stove is not heating the whole house equally and the bathroom usually has a door the hot air aint traveling through that means the bathroom is colder than usual when using pellets, hence the womanfolk will use more hot water to compensate...say 10 % more cost for hot water when using the stove.
Otherwise: 2400 USD when burning oil vs 1000 USD for the pellets (bad pellets, delivery included) plus 60 USD extra for more hot water. That would mean 1200 USD savings per season. makes only 3 years until investment is payed off. Hmmm
The weird thing is I dont think this is true, given my own experience. At 3 USD/gallon oil you should actually pay more for pellets than oil - somethings wrong. Since you cant trust my math, go here and use this excellent excell file:
www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts
Otherwise: 2400 USD when burning oil vs 1000 USD for the pellets (bad pellets, delivery included) plus 60 USD extra for more hot water. That would mean 1200 USD savings per season. makes only 3 years until investment is payed off. Hmmm
The weird thing is I dont think this is true, given my own experience. At 3 USD/gallon oil you should actually pay more for pellets than oil - somethings wrong. Since you cant trust my math, go here and use this excellent excell file:
www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts
Based on what I pay for a normal season ans what I will pay for this season, I stand to save an average of $1400 a season. I go through 900 gallons of propane (2.73) with an avg of about 65. I will use about 6 ton a heating season at 70.
I paid 168 this year and hope to get some additional stock for next year. I get the $1500 this year and will pay off my unit in the next heating season.
I paid 168 this year and hope to get some additional stock for next year. I get the $1500 this year and will pay off my unit in the next heating season.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
dmaclaren said:
No, no, no.
Don't forget to pay yourself for tending the stove (good brews cost these days) ;-) .
marine5068
Member
Very good topic.
But one that I figured out BEFORE I bought my pellet stove.
I am out in the country a bit and have no access to natural gas and the home I bought was all electric baseboard heat.
My house shape and layout is also ideal for pellet or wood stove. By this I mean that it is relatively square shaped which is easy to centrally heat from a pellet or wood stove with no need for any supply or return ductwork.
It is also mostly open-concept so that the great room is made up of the three usual rooms of Living, Dining and Kitchen. Bedrooms and bath and laundry are easily heated by leaving doors open too.
So with this info in hand a pellet stove was purchased that fits the 2400 sq foot house.
When all the math estimates were done, my payback period of $4000 was two years or less.
This was 5 years ago and I have been saving about $2000-$3000 per year ever since.
Now if I could only buy pellets at the prices some of you in the U.S. are getting them for, I'd be laughing at the oil, gas, solar, heat pump and electric companies more.
We pay about $6 per 40lb bag here. That's $300 per tonne. That's the normal price everywhere here. Lowes, Walmart Hardware stores of all kinds, TSC and farm supply stores.
Some are even higher up to $7-$8 per bag.
I started paying $4.25 per bag of pellets 5 years back then the spike in pellet prices three years back pushed them up to over 7-8 dollars per bag. They went back to six after that and are now that price most everywhere.
I managed to find a supplier for $4.95 per bag this year and only hope he'll undercut all others next year as well.
In five years (including my investment for stove and pellet chimney and pellet purchases), I've now saved over $6000 total.
It's really a no-brainer to switch to pellet fuel, for me anyways.
~Stan
But one that I figured out BEFORE I bought my pellet stove.
I am out in the country a bit and have no access to natural gas and the home I bought was all electric baseboard heat.
My house shape and layout is also ideal for pellet or wood stove. By this I mean that it is relatively square shaped which is easy to centrally heat from a pellet or wood stove with no need for any supply or return ductwork.
It is also mostly open-concept so that the great room is made up of the three usual rooms of Living, Dining and Kitchen. Bedrooms and bath and laundry are easily heated by leaving doors open too.
So with this info in hand a pellet stove was purchased that fits the 2400 sq foot house.
When all the math estimates were done, my payback period of $4000 was two years or less.
This was 5 years ago and I have been saving about $2000-$3000 per year ever since.
Now if I could only buy pellets at the prices some of you in the U.S. are getting them for, I'd be laughing at the oil, gas, solar, heat pump and electric companies more.
We pay about $6 per 40lb bag here. That's $300 per tonne. That's the normal price everywhere here. Lowes, Walmart Hardware stores of all kinds, TSC and farm supply stores.
Some are even higher up to $7-$8 per bag.
I started paying $4.25 per bag of pellets 5 years back then the spike in pellet prices three years back pushed them up to over 7-8 dollars per bag. They went back to six after that and are now that price most everywhere.
I managed to find a supplier for $4.95 per bag this year and only hope he'll undercut all others next year as well.
In five years (including my investment for stove and pellet chimney and pellet purchases), I've now saved over $6000 total.
It's really a no-brainer to switch to pellet fuel, for me anyways.
~Stan
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
Just tell her pellets are cheaper, stop questioning you, hand her your credit card and send her to the mall. Thats how I handled it.
quickrch
Member
Here is how mine is working out:
Stove $3,600
Install $1,100
Pellets (1.5 tonsX2 trips=3 tons)=$642 am I a pig now?
Total first year costs=$5,342
Tax Credit=$1,410
Net costs=3,932
Last year's propane usage:1,200 gallons @ 3.86 a gallon=$4,632
This year's propane usage: 300 gallons @ 3.86 a gallon=$1,158
Net change in propane costs per year: $3,474
First year net costs: 3932-3474=$458
Raised the tempurature in my house from 67 to 70.
Not having Amerigas telling me they gave me a 500 gallon fillup every few months at the market rate determined by them....priceless
Warm happy wife...priceless*priceless
Oh and my heat pump does not run much anymore so the electric dropped too.
Stove $3,600
Install $1,100
Pellets (1.5 tonsX2 trips=3 tons)=$642 am I a pig now?
Total first year costs=$5,342
Tax Credit=$1,410
Net costs=3,932
Last year's propane usage:1,200 gallons @ 3.86 a gallon=$4,632
This year's propane usage: 300 gallons @ 3.86 a gallon=$1,158
Net change in propane costs per year: $3,474
First year net costs: 3932-3474=$458
Raised the tempurature in my house from 67 to 70.
Not having Amerigas telling me they gave me a 500 gallon fillup every few months at the market rate determined by them....priceless
Warm happy wife...priceless*priceless
Oh and my heat pump does not run much anymore so the electric dropped too.
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
Quickrch.
1200 gallons a year at 3.86 per gallon is a horrible price. At least compared to Central NY. Also, did Amerigas catch on to your lower usage and raise the price yet? Heres how it works at our shop. 700 gallons per year or more, $2.49 per gallon (todays price) 240-699 gallons per year, $2.99 per gallon. Watch what Amerigas does with your pricing. Even at only 300 gallons per year, it may be worth shopping around. If you can save a buck a gallon by switching (the new propane supplier normally absorbs most if not all of the tank swap price) $300 bucks a year can go towards something else.
1200 gallons a year at 3.86 per gallon is a horrible price. At least compared to Central NY. Also, did Amerigas catch on to your lower usage and raise the price yet? Heres how it works at our shop. 700 gallons per year or more, $2.49 per gallon (todays price) 240-699 gallons per year, $2.99 per gallon. Watch what Amerigas does with your pricing. Even at only 300 gallons per year, it may be worth shopping around. If you can save a buck a gallon by switching (the new propane supplier normally absorbs most if not all of the tank swap price) $300 bucks a year can go towards something else.
quickrch
Member
Franks said:
Yes it is! What they do down here is when new homes are built the gas company gets an easement to the property and puts in the tank at no charge to the builder. Then they tack on a surcharge since it is their tank. I think my surcharge is around 80 or 90 cents. This left me with the choice to continue to paying the surcharge, add another tank of my own at my own expense, or buy a pellet stove and only use propane for hot water and cooking.
Basically, as long as I buy 150 gallons a year I can keep the account open and I don't have to pay a rental fee. So, that is what I'll do.
nksdad2007
Member
morsnow said:
At those prices, you are saving $859 per year and will pay off the stove in 4.2 years.
ChrisWNY
Feeling the Heat
Franks said:
Ouch, I didn't realize that this would be the case - I normally go through 800-900 gallons of LP per year, and now that I have a Fahrenheit Pellet furnace, our propane usage should easily be cut by 2/3rds, perhaps more, as we are no longer using LP for heat (I'd estimate 150-200 gallons of LP per year for hot water/dryer/range). My LP supplier has been charging me $2.49/gallon (plus delivery), I'll have to keep an eye on future bills to find out if the price is hiked on me. My neighbor, who runs his pellet stove nearly 24/7, fills his LP tank once per year during the Summer - I've heard that Summer LP fills are the cheapest, because the demand for LP is lowest May-September.
$3.86 is way too high for LP gas, there's no reason for a gallon of LP to cost more than a gallon of gasoline. Amerigas does seem to rip people off, I know my neighbors' LP bills were always much higher than ours (before pellet burners factored in), and they were supplied by Amerigas.
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