st. croix york poor performance

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ryan319

Member
Nov 10, 2011
22
Western, PA
Hi all, new member and first time poster but I've been reading a lot on here.

Anyway, I have a 4 year old york insert. It has been burning great for the last two seasons. I have thoroughly cleaned it this week but its not burning good at all and it wasn't before I cleaned it. The flame is poor, the heat is low and the glass is getting amber. My damper is almost completely closed and I have a 4" exhaust pipe that goes up the chimney, about 15 ft with a cap.

My flame quality is really poor and it seems to get worse when I turn the heat level up. I get a lot of flameouts, then it builds up and dies out again. It seems that I am getting too much air but I can't seem to figure out what's going on.

I am going to change the door rope but what else should I do? Any thoughts from more the more experienced crowd on here?
 
ryan319 said:
Hi all, new member and first time poster but I've been reading a lot on here.

Anyway, I have a 4 year old york insert. It has been burning great for the last two seasons. I have thoroughly cleaned it this week but its not burning good at all and it wasn't before I cleaned it. The flame is poor, the heat is low and the glass is getting amber. My damper is almost completely closed and I have a 4" exhaust pipe that goes up the chimney, about 15 ft with a cap.

My flame quality is really poor and it seems to get worse when I turn the heat level up. I get a lot of flameouts, then it builds up and dies out again. It seems that I am getting too much air but I can't seem to figure out what's going on.

I am going to change the door rope but what else should I do? Any thoughts from more the more experienced crowd on here?

Have you checked the chimney cap to make sure it is clear?
 
closing the damper would cut off air to the fire. Try opening the damper for better air flow
 
ryan319 said:
Hi all, new member and first time poster but I've been reading a lot on here.

Anyway, I have a 4 year old york insert. It has been burning great for the last two seasons. I have thoroughly cleaned it this week but its not burning good at all and it wasn't before I cleaned it. The flame is poor, the heat is low and the glass is getting amber. My damper is almost completely closed and I have a 4" exhaust pipe that goes up the chimney, about 15 ft with a cap.

My flame quality is really poor and it seems to get worse when I turn the heat level up. I get a lot of flameouts, then it builds up and dies out again. It seems that I am getting too much air but I can't seem to figure out what's going on.

I am going to change the door rope but what else should I do? Any thoughts from more the more experienced crowd on here?

It comes down to air in and air out. Did you change anything in the house this summer? New windows or chimney work? I think the stove is plugged or the combustion fan is not turning or turning slowly. Here is the link to the video owners manual for the Afton Bay. This would be similar in construction to your York. http://stcroixstoves.com/video-disclaimerP.php?video=Afton Bay open.flv

Braad
 
Have you cleaned the ash traps?
 
When you cleaned it did you remove the exhaust blower and clean. if so did it spin freely when removed
 
Let me make it simple for you, set your damper open exactly 1 number 2 pencil width, and hit that stoves vent with a leaf blower in vacuum mode.

There is a very hard place in the exhaust system to get ash out of. The leaf blower trick is the fastest way to do it.

For more information do a quick search for prescott msmith in the quick search bar at the top left hand portion of the screen.
 
I didn't change anything in the house this summer. I should clarify on the damper, it's not completely closed but closed as far as the stop on it will allow. I did take the combustion fan off and clean, vacuum,.and blow it out. Out seems to be clean and free.

I try some of the other suggestions tonight and check back tomorrow.
 
Is the flame very active (blowtorch like/blue flame at base of fire) or is it slow and lazy (black ash and sooty burn)???

If your ash is very dark and your glass is sooting up, then its possible you have a lazy flame. This could be fixed by opening the damper, but if its where you have had it set in past years, its likely a blockage in the stove, venting, or termination cap.

If its getting to much air, its very unlikely that the glass would be affected that much. Thats the onlu reason I would think that the stove is plugged.

Like Smokey suggested, try and do the leafblower trick. It gets all the nooks and crannies that are hard to get at.

Can you follow your exhaust path from the firebox to the combustion blower. This "hidden" area is the most likely to plug a stove because some models are very hard to get at.
 
The stove is plugged with ash...
 
x2 on what heat seeker said above. Check your ash trap doors. Pull them off, vaccuum behind them. Also get something to scrape inside that chamber on both sides. I do this each week w/ my cleaning. I have a friend w/ an Afton Bay and he didn't know about the ash traps. His stove was acting very similar to yours. Once he cleaned them he was back in buisness.
 
I just remembered - there is a video on the St. Croix site that shows the ash traps' location, and shows some that are quite plugged up with ash.
 
Unless the op has one of the newer stoves off the production line it is quite possible that just cleaning through the existing clean out ports won't get the place most likely to harbor the ash.
 
Don't have that same model but have a st croix.
I do not do roofs and have the same up the chimney
exhaust vent so the leaf blower thing isn't an option
for me. Nevertheless I've always been able to keep
my stove running A+ by cleaning the vent all the
way up with a brush, removing both blowers and
cleaning them thoroughly, and removing the refractory
panels and tapping on the back wall/sides of the stove
until no more ash falls. You most likely will see some
chunks of stuff fall to the ash traps and have to keep up with the vac
and tap/repeat with the vac. I also like to duct tape a short
piece of small hose to the vac nozzle and get down into the ash traps with
that.
Also after removing the exhaust blower you'll see build up in the cavity
it sits in. After four years it will need a good scraping/vac
as well. Don't forget to remove the baffle and brush clean
the heat exchange tubes too. Like I said this method has always kept
my stove running excellent with zero need for any other
tricks. Stove is going into 7th year with approx 21 tons of
pellets run through it so far.
 
I'll add that as you're cleaning the exchanger tubes, pay particular attention to both ends, where the tubes are welded into the headers. The scraper tends to pack the ash in there, and it interferes with airflow. I pull the scraper out and use a hacksaw blade (not the teeth, just because it's thin and flexible) to knock the ash out of the back end. My stove was "clean" when I got it, but there was a load of packed ash back there. It was blocking a bit of heat transfer, too. There is also a shelf at the front end (on my Afton Bay, at least) that collects ash, and also gets packed ashes up there. I was amazed at the amount of ash up there. After cleaning those areas, I noticed not only better airflow, but a definite increase in air temperature from the stove. YMMV, just my experience with the Afton Bay. It's an easy chore, but I've not seen in mentioned anywhere, and not in the manual, either.
 
this thing has me beat. the ash traps are clean, and i went up inside them with a long flexible cleaner similar to what they used in the st. croix video. i cleaned out the combustion fan by removing it and blowing through it back into the stove. the pipe going up the chimney and cap are free and clear. i cleaned the intake blower. i can't find any significant buildups of ash left in this thing. i've had all the brick and everything inside the stove out and cleaned it. after cleaning it again for 2 hours this morning the flame is still the same weak and almost smoldering out.

when its in startup mode the flame is big and powerful like it should be but when the combustion fan kicks in the flame dies out. is the fan going bad?

what am i missing?

let's assume that the stove is completely clean, what hard part failures could cause this?
 
"i cleaned out the combustion fan by removing it and blowing through it back into the stove" not a good way to clean.

Check area 6 in the picture here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/596630/

The combustion blower is on during startup it is the convection blower that kicks in, the combustion blower will go to the rate that pairs with the fuel feed.

This is likely to be less than what it was during start up.

If you have a multimeter you can measure the voltages seen by the combustion blower and thus rule out the controller as being the culprit.
 
The combustion fan should run when in startup mode. It should keep running all the time while the stove is running. Does it stop after the startup?

The room air fan has nothing to do with the fire, and should come on for a short time when starting, then shut off when the vacuum switch is made (maybe 20 seconds or so), then come on again when the proof of fire switch gets hot enough (8-10 minutes or so).

I would assume the combustion blower still runs, since the vacuum switch is made. If you have an OAK, is it clear? Perhaps take it off the stove temporarily, and then you can eyeball the damper to make sure it's open and clear. (Could be difficult on an insert, I know.) Also, you should be able to run your flexible cleaner down the back side of the firewall into the ash traps, just as another check.

I'm confused by the fact that your combustion blower starts after the fire starts.

This sounds like a typical airflow problem, there are just so many things it can be. Since you feel that the stove is clean, the next suspect is the intake - either the OAK is plugged, or the damper is blocked/closed.

(Smokey beat me to it, I was slow in typing…hehe.)
 
ryan319 said:
this thing has me beat. the ash traps are clean,
and i went up inside them with a long flexible cleaner similar to what they used in the st. croix video.


A flexible whatever still can miss chunks of packed in junk.
Tapping the back inside wall of the stove with the refractory panels
removed is the best way to dislodge anything that may be up in there.
I use a small ballpeen hammer and tap all over the back wall.
Even after what I think is a good cleaning and running a bottle
brush up in those traps, chunks of packed ash comes down
into the bottom of the traps when I tap (tap not pound).

Something to note too. I have the same exhaust setup that you have -
approx 15 feet or so of 4" vent up the chimney. When I lost power recently
I tossed a few healthy handfuls of pellets in the burnpot and closed the
door. Even with the power out the flame was the same as with the
blower running. Not saying don't check the blower
as the guys are saying but just letting you know that it does sound
like the stove is plugged up somewhere.
 
i don't have an OAK.

the combustion fan does come on when the stove is powered up. the room fan comes on shortly after. the traps and wall behind the firebrick are clean and clear. i guess that i could pull the combustion fan again but i'm pretty confident that there is nothing there.

what should the voltage be if i test the combustion fan?
 
ryan319 said:
i don't have an OAK.

the combustion fan does come on when the stove is powered up. the room fan comes on shortly after. the traps and wall behind the firebrick are clean and clear. i guess that i could pull the combustion fan again but i'm pretty confident that there is nothing there.

what should the voltage be if i test the combustion fan?

You make the readings and hopefully someone with a service manual will drop in and see if things look right. Remember that you are dealing with line voltage inside that unit so hookups and disconnects should be done with the unit off and unplugged.
 
From my Afton Bay manual:
Note that there is about a 2 minute delay when changing from one heat level to the next one up.
 

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Have you checked all your Gaskets? Do the "Dollar Bill Test"? A leaky gasket will rob the pellets of combustion air.

What type of motors do you have? Do they have Oil Ports? If so, a couple drops of SAE 20 oil may help.
 
Maybe I'll try checking the fan voltage. Something is definitely wrong because there isn't a spec of ash left inside. I thought maybe the vacuum switch but it's the same story. The flame starts out strong then fades away I'm about 15 minutes. Any one know a good service company in western pa? I don't have time to keep messing with this thing.
 
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