Bought a Heatmor. I know you guys will be disapointed. Not a gasifer. Got a good deal on it from a fellow on this site. He is a dealer. Did not push me into it no pressure. Now the work begins. I will save up for a garn. At this time I didnt have the cash for a garn. and I think they are great. Top of the line. What do you guys think of Foam for insluation Sprayed on that is for insluating pex.. My stove will be 100 ft away, to far? Hope not. Also side arm or coil in boiler for D/W. Im sure I will be here alot during install. I have a friend who has a small excavater. I will seek Professional help for wiring and some plumbing. I have a trane furnace 95 percent. D/C blower motor. And 2 zones in duct work. Very anxios about install . lots to learn. I also wanted to thank every one for all the help. As I said I like this site. Good people lot of smart people out there. Thanks Windy,,
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100' is not to far... but I wouldn't skimp on the insulated line. I have talked to several people who just wrapped their pex in foam and shoved it inside a 4" pipe. This is alot better than not having any insulation at all, but not if you get water in the 4" pipe and saturate the foam. You'll be heating the ground from here to china if that happens. If you go this route, i think it's a good idea to put some drainage tile in the bottom of the ditch with gravel over top of it, and then set your 4" pipe with the pex inside on top of that. Run the tile out and away to a lower elevation from some point along the ditch... this should keep the water away from your pex.
One of my customers who installed their boiler themselves last year ran into the water in the pipe deal, and has been blowing through wood like crazy. He's losing about 40 degrees from the supply to the return on his boiler ovet 150'. Maybe 10 or 15 of that is his actual heat load... the rest is keeping the worms cozy. This spring he is putting in a new line. The stuff he is going to use is cheap stuff that he got from a guy in some other state. It's basically just extremely heavy corrugated pipe with insualtion wrapped around the pex inside. I have not seen it yet, and the jury is still out on it's quality... but it's only $6/foot. The good stuff will run you about $15 per foot.
At 100 feet from the house, I would not want to run another set of lines to the boiler for dhw... just use a good sized sidearm and you should be good to go.
If you are considering a gasifier in the future, be it a garn, eko, econoburn, tarm, etc... I would make sure to put O2 barrier pex in the ground now just in case you decide to buy a closed system boiler. That way you won't limit your choices of gasifier later on.
Don't be anxious about the install... just take your time, do your research, ask lots of questions, and do everything as high quality as you can afford. Some things are ok to do a little cheaper... some things are not so ok. If you have talked to anyone who has had a bad installation of and OWB, you know it can be heartbreaking.
cheers
One of my customers who installed their boiler themselves last year ran into the water in the pipe deal, and has been blowing through wood like crazy. He's losing about 40 degrees from the supply to the return on his boiler ovet 150'. Maybe 10 or 15 of that is his actual heat load... the rest is keeping the worms cozy. This spring he is putting in a new line. The stuff he is going to use is cheap stuff that he got from a guy in some other state. It's basically just extremely heavy corrugated pipe with insualtion wrapped around the pex inside. I have not seen it yet, and the jury is still out on it's quality... but it's only $6/foot. The good stuff will run you about $15 per foot.
At 100 feet from the house, I would not want to run another set of lines to the boiler for dhw... just use a good sized sidearm and you should be good to go.
If you are considering a gasifier in the future, be it a garn, eko, econoburn, tarm, etc... I would make sure to put O2 barrier pex in the ground now just in case you decide to buy a closed system boiler. That way you won't limit your choices of gasifier later on.
Don't be anxious about the install... just take your time, do your research, ask lots of questions, and do everything as high quality as you can afford. Some things are ok to do a little cheaper... some things are not so ok. If you have talked to anyone who has had a bad installation of and OWB, you know it can be heartbreaking.
cheers
sprayed closed cell foam is the way to go. Make sure you put in large enough pipe and o2 also. I put in double 1in as it is easier to work with. Heaterman uses a co. out of traverse city that sprays. Pm him and he might beable to point you in the right direction if you are close to tc.
leaddog
leaddog
Thats what I thought. I will use 1 inch too> We do have a co. in alpena that sprays foam . I will have 4 lines in trench do you think the foam will work. Also I think the lines have to be seperated. Thanks . Windy.
This will be a good instlation I do not want any trouble in -20 deg. weather. Will the coil work better if I have 2 50 gal water heaters. I have a small jetted tub which is why I have 2 water heaters. Thank you. Windy
Sorry about saying Garn is great . I just like the built in storage. I know there ane lots of good gasifers out there. Respectfully Windy
Happy Embarkation!
There are lots of good folks with a wealth of information, experience, and goodwill here in the Boiler Room.
Lots of us have "been there" in various ways, and are generally willing to field questions and try to assist.
PS- you'll almost certainly want more than a single pair of 1" lines- if you are looking at potentially moving anywhere near or above 100kBTU/ hr of heat, a single pair of 1" lines is going to really cripple you in the long run, and end up resulting in poor heat transfer, and/ or having to use oversized pumps which are going to burn more electricity than needed.
Even with my in-house 150kBTU boiler, with relatively short runs, after doing the calcs, I found that anything much less than a 1.25 pipe was likely to cramp my long-run ability to transfer heat well and have an overall efficient system (relative to both moving the heat from the wood and the amount of electricity for the pumps to move it). 100 FT of run will only magnify that. And the only thing more excruciating than the cost of putting in slightly big pipe at the start is the cost of digging it all up and throwing it away if it does not work well, or being stuck throwing $$$ down the figurative hole if it does not work efficiently, but sorta works, and you can't afford or justify a re-do.
There are lots of good folks with a wealth of information, experience, and goodwill here in the Boiler Room.
Lots of us have "been there" in various ways, and are generally willing to field questions and try to assist.
PS- you'll almost certainly want more than a single pair of 1" lines- if you are looking at potentially moving anywhere near or above 100kBTU/ hr of heat, a single pair of 1" lines is going to really cripple you in the long run, and end up resulting in poor heat transfer, and/ or having to use oversized pumps which are going to burn more electricity than needed.
Even with my in-house 150kBTU boiler, with relatively short runs, after doing the calcs, I found that anything much less than a 1.25 pipe was likely to cramp my long-run ability to transfer heat well and have an overall efficient system (relative to both moving the heat from the wood and the amount of electricity for the pumps to move it). 100 FT of run will only magnify that. And the only thing more excruciating than the cost of putting in slightly big pipe at the start is the cost of digging it all up and throwing it away if it does not work well, or being stuck throwing $$$ down the figurative hole if it does not work efficiently, but sorta works, and you can't afford or justify a re-do.
flyingcow
Minister of Fire
As noted above, make sure your lines are big enough. I used "1.25 thermopex tubing. Expensive($17 a foot), but I'm seeing no heat loss, but i'm only going about 50ft. Couldn't go any deeper than about 3 to 4 ft below grade, and when i went into the buildings I'm only about a foot below grade. I put "2 of foam board over the pipe also. "4 in the few feet before the buildings. The pipe is also laid in screened gravel/sand. I think my climate is comparable to yours. The frost doesn't come out until the blackflies are lugging off the small animals.
What I found is that pex varies in Inside Diameter, from company to company. The thermopex was true "1.25 ID. I bought some other stuff to run in my ceiling space, that was supposed to be the same, but it was smaller.
If you can get heaterman to chime in, he'll have some good advice and solutions that will work real well. He posted some info on his installs, damn impressive( 200 and 300ft runs with next to nothing for heat loss). If you can get the right installers, closed cell seems like the way to go.
What I found is that pex varies in Inside Diameter, from company to company. The thermopex was true "1.25 ID. I bought some other stuff to run in my ceiling space, that was supposed to be the same, but it was smaller.
If you can get heaterman to chime in, he'll have some good advice and solutions that will work real well. He posted some info on his installs, damn impressive( 200 and 300ft runs with next to nothing for heat loss). If you can get the right installers, closed cell seems like the way to go.
Don't know what your house is like but you might want to consider some radiant floor. If you have access to the floor from below you won't regret the extra effort. Even if it provides part of your heat load you'll enjoy the added comfort.
Thanks guys I will use bigger pipe. at laeat 1.25. as Ihave a 7/8 line to my garden and a 5/8 to another part The difference is huge as far as pressure and flow go. I do not want a redo. Any body got any ideas about my 2 water heaters. 50 gal ele each. cant wait to cut that power bill. Maybe with that OWB I should only use 1 w/h. And yes black flise here can carry away a smsll poodle. Thanks Windy.
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