stove pipe assembly debate

[kjsnooks]

Ok here is the debate. I was telling with my father in law about installin our stovepipe/chimney. I told him what i had read here about the crimped end down to prevent stuff from leaking out plus the benefit i woudl see come cleaning time. He says the crimped end should be up because if the crimped end is down smoke in theory could escape the stove pipe on the way up. I mentioned sealining each joint to prevent that but it did little to change his opinion. What do you knowledgeable folks have to say about it

 

[jtp10181]

All the pipe we sell has a "FLOW" sticker and the "crimped" (or male) end is always down for wood pipe. They call it a "drip-less" connection. Just as you said, keep liquid creosote from dripping out. Even if you do get a small amount of smoke leaking, the creosote will clog all that up after a few fires. Works just like furnace cement.

 

[babalu87]

There is no debate unless he wants to argue whether or not the sky is blue.

 

[kjsnooks]

LOL he just may some day especially if it is me who says it is blue

 

[Corey]

There is no debate unless he wants to argue whether or not the sky is blue.

That about sums it up!

Corey

 

[Metal]

Class A and Black Pipe are both "Neutral/Negative Pressure" pipe. If anything they will pull room air into the pipe, if you are pushing smoke out you have issues.

 

[BrotherBart]

Part of the father-in-law job description is to argue with the son-in-law.

 

[backpack09]

So is the crimped end on double wall stove pipe is supposed to go up or down? The 6" double wall stove pipe I used has the crimped end at ~7"diameter so it does not fit into the stove, it fits over the stoves flange. I have it installed over the flange, and am using an adaptor at the top to get into the cieling box/chimney support.

My install could be wrong, as there were no flow arrows on my pipe, and the instructions were very vague...

 

[Metal]

Crimps go down on single or double wall black.

 

[Bill]

My double wall interior pipe has the male (crimped end) end inside the pipe facing down and the double wall pipe fits over the stove adapter. Hope that makes sense it does to me.

 

[backpack09]

... No... it does not, I will take a picture of my setup when I get home.

For now here is a wonderful mspaint sketch

 

[chad3]

Backpack
You need to change the bottom of the flange if you are putting it over the stove connector. Some European designs have a MM instead of IN pipe so it seems to not work but you can recrimp and maybe cement/rope it the right way. The way you have it, liquid will seep out and make a mess of the stove and the floor.
I'm not sure of any other reason, if it works, I guess you can keep doing it.
As a side, gas pipes are connected the opposite way, anyone know why?

 

[backpack09]

The ID of the stoves flange is 6", the OD is 7" and the crimped end fits OVER the flange. So you are saying I must cut and adjust the 7" outside wall of the stove pipe to fit INSIDE of the flange.

I can understand the consern with gook dripping down onto my stovetop, but cutting the pipe to reduce the diameter of the outside wall does not sound like the correct way to go.

If I turn the pipe upside down, the inside wall is 6" and is also ribbed, and will slip inside of the stoves flange. But I am unable to screw it to the flange on the stove because the outer wall is in the way.

I think the brand of double wall was excel, but I cannot remember fore sure. I will check my manuals when I get home tonight.

If someone with experience installing thesese could point me in the right direction, I will be extremely grateful

Thanks

 

[Metal]

Here are the Installation Instructions from ICC (Excel). It sounds like the section with the yellow label should be on top.

 

[hearthtools]

So is the crimped end on double wall stove pipe is supposed to go up or down? The 6" double wall stove pipe I used has the crimped end at ~7"diameter so it does not fit into the stove, it fits over the stoves flange. I have it installed over the flange, and am using an adaptor at the top to get into the cieling box/chimney support.

My install could be wrong, as there were no flow arrows on my pipe, and the instructions were very vague...

Some double wall pipe like Excell have the outer wall edge crimped on the upper section do the pipes will fit together.
but if you really look that the pipe the INNER wall all Male ends are facing down in fit inside the lower pipe.

 

[Highbeam]

"If I turn the pipe upside down, the inside wall is 6” and is also ribbed, and will slip inside of the stoves flange. But I am unable to screw it to the flange on the stove because the outer wall is in the way."

My double wall DVL from Simpson has a flow arrow and when installed properly the outer layer of the double wall pipe prevents me from attaching the double wall to the stove's collar. The expanded section of double wall is expanded in place and held expanded by the screws in the middle. If I was to blindly screw a long self tapping screw through the outer wall of the double wall, through the stove collar and then through the inner wall of the connector pipe then I can see a very good chance of crushing the outer wall of the connector pipe and it being very ugly.

The inspector told me that the double wall does not get attached to the stove and approved it without collar screws.

 

[hearthtools]

"If I turn the pipe upside down, the inside wall is 6” and is also ribbed, and will slip inside of the stoves flange. But I am unable to screw it to the flange on the stove because the outer wall is in the way."

My double wall DVL from Simpson has a flow arrow and when installed properly the outer layer of the double wall pipe prevents me from attaching the double wall to the stove's collar. The expanded section of double wall is expanded in place and held expanded by the screws in the middle. If I was to blindly screw a long self tapping screw through the outer wall of the double wall, through the stove collar and then through the inner wall of the connector pipe then I can see a very good chance of crushing the outer wall of the connector pipe and it being very ugly.

The inspector told me that the double wall does not get attached to the stove and approved it without collar screws.

Yes

The inter wall will be IN the stove collar and the outer wall will be on the OUT SIDE of the stove collar.
Some stoves (hearthstone Shelburn) you need to use a stove connector adapt to make double wall work because the cast iron flue collar on the stove is to thick for the double wall to fit over it.

this part will slip into the stove and you attach the upper halve between the outer wall in inner wall of the bottom of the double wall pipe.


To be truthful we rarely screw Double wall pipe to the stove.
once you screw all the other joints together and the long screws into the double wall pipe to Flue extension out of the support box
they pipe is not going nowhere.

 

[backpack09]

Ok, Here are the pictures.

The First Set is how I originally had it set up.

 

[hearthtools]

Ok, Here are the pictures.

The First Set is how I originally had it set up.

NO NO NO

You are UPSIDE DOWN

the Crimp goes up and you need a Flue Extention coming out of your support box to connect your double wall pipe.

The open end of the pipe goes down so the inner wall goes into the lower section of pipe and the outer wall goes over the lower section of pipe

 

[hearthtools]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/ind...=6798_YtHKy0evUJO4A1DX9AG9&thumb=1&board_id=1

this part is the stove extention I posted above
it is ment to go into the stove for stoves that dont have a collar or a OD size collar that the open end of the pipe will not fit over

 

[hearthtools]

It looks like you used the stove extention as a FLUE extention and this is wrong.

any pipe connected to Class A at the support box need to be over the OUTER edge of short 6" pipe that extends out the end of your class A
this is what you would need a flue extention for.
Duravent calls is a Close Clearance adapt.
ICC calls it a flue extention
NOT SURE WHAT THE OTHER CALL IT.

 

[backpack09]

And This is how I am reading how it should be installed.
But the diameter of the hole in my ceiling is 6" and the diameter of the double wall stove pipe will be 6.5"

 

[hearthtools]

you need a flue extention or a close clearance adapt
this is the pipe that sticks out of your support box
http://www.hearthtools.com/install/support-box.jpg

 

[hearthtools]

Give me a few minutes
I just tooks some photos of differnt flue extentions
i need to reduce them down.
What brand of support box and Class A pipe is that?
It looks like you have ICC ultra black double wall but the Class A is ?

 

[backpack09]

If you could find me what Excel calls the flue adapter that would be great. I looked through there catalog, and could not find anything like that. (broken link removed to http://www.icc-rsf.com/Manuel_catalogue/XL-CAT.pdf) . I appreciate the help. My inspector obviously knew less than I do about this.

Edit: To answer my own question... Excell/icc calls it a flue extension.

Thanks,