Stove pipe leaks.

[PapaDave]

So, when I put in the new stove pipe a couple years ago, I put in a "key damper" to try helping to keep the stove from going moonbound.
Someone (begreen or brotherbart, maybe) recently mentioned that those can not only allow some air into the pipe via the mounting holes, but also reduce flow by 15-20% even when fully open.
Last Feb., I put in 6" Class A system, and began seeing a bit of smoke rollout when opening the door no matter how I did it. Not a ton, but enough to notice and be a bother. I don't remember that ever happening when the oversized 8" flue was in place.
Think smoke smell in the adjoining room for a few minutes after a reload.
I added another foot of Class A, since I built a raised hearth 2 years ago, and now also thinking of removing the damper.
I built a small fire about 10 days ago when the temp was in the mid 40's and still got a bit of rollout.
Four ft. of stove pipe in the room, 5 in the attic, and just under 5 out the roof through the peak.
What say ye' all?

 

[Danno77]

I say yer still too short by a hair and that you combine it with lower outdoor temps and you're gonna get some smoke into the room. Is this with the Ashley? I would've guessed 12ft min would have been fine for a clean straight shot, but that would be at the bottom of length, I'd imagine.

So, run your obstructions by me one more time. You DO still have that damper? how many jogs in the pipe?

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a decent setup if straight up for a modern stove. It's on the low end, but should work. Does the Ashley have an 8" flue collar?

 

[PapaDave]

Thanks for the responses. 6" collar, and straight shot.
Some manufacturers measure from the bottom of the box, some from the floor, and some from the top of the stove.
Unfortunately, I can't find any info. on this stove ANYWHERE. The tag is still on the stove for clearances, but that's it.
Yep, the Ashley. Still have the damper in place.
The thing that gets me is that from '06-'09, this was setup (PO) with a 6" to 8" increaser right at the stove and 8" to the cap.
That was 5' in the room, 5' in the attic, and 4" shy of 4' to the cap w/o the raised hearth.
I would have expected an increase in velocity through the stove with the new setup.
I also went through the house and sealed up all the outside wall switch and outlet plates. Maybe I should get the house a little leaky again.
This stove isn't long for it's place in the house, so I will live with whatever I have to this winter, but I'd rather it didn't puff smoke in my face.

 

[Danno77]

throw another section on, and if that doesn't work then we start trying to figure out if you have pressure issues due to gas furnace/water heater, dryer vents, etc, etc...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Dave, I doubt you would notice any difference with just adding a foot. Add 4' and you'd notice it for sure. As for measuring, we have always measured from top of the stove or where the stove pipe starts.

Also, are you opening the draft full and waiting a minute before opening the firebox door? You might even wait a couple minutes to see if that would make a difference. We had a stove one time that we fought with the smoke in the house when we opened the door and doing this helped a bit but we never did completely figure that one out. Didn't have the stove long either.

 

[PapaDave]

The only other thing that might have been running would be the water heater (gas).
Wall furnace in the living room and direct vent in the back were turned off about 4 years ago.
I just don't get why the 6" isn't pulling the same or better than the 8". Makes no sense to me.
Oh, and I opened a window near the stove too. No diff.
Started a few small, dry splits with a homemade firestarter, closed the door, and within a couple minutes had a nice active fire going.
So, maybe something's causing a neg. pressure in the house? Am I breathing too much?

 

[PapaDave]

Hey Dennis. I have the old stove pipe and may throw that on there when the temps drop a bit.
I really don't like the idea of putting braces on the roof with the attending holes.
I've (well, almost ) never opened the door w/o opening the air first. Bev, on the other hand, the very few times she's reloaded, never even touches the air.
I've got more total pipe now, and it's also the proper size, so WTH? I'm just confuzzled for a minute.

 

[begreen]

Is there a baffle in the stove? If so check to make sure it's all the way toward the back of the stove. Also, make sure there isn't an accumulation of crud on top of it that may be interfering with the smoke flow to the flue.

 

[PapaDave]

Yep, there's a steel baffle permanently tack welded in. When I cleaned the stove at the end of the season, I also cleaned the top of that baffle as I always do.
First time I cleaned the flue, I didn't and realized the crud had built up to restrict exhaust.
I had thought of that too, and I'll check it tomorrow. N/M, I'll check tonight and let you know what I find.

 

[PapaDave]

Well, the top of the baffle/smoke shelf wasn't quite as clean as I thought, but should not have been enough to cause the problem (famous last words, eh?).
Not easy getting my arm up there. I use an old spatula to reach across and drag the crud off the plate.
I might just have to have a small test fire in the morning before Bev gets up, although it's only supposed to get down to 51 tonight.
Maybe I should turn the air on first?!
Thanks for the reminder begreen. Always helpful. I'll report back in the a.m. after the test.

 

[Danno77]

the smaller the difference between indoor and outdoor temperature the more likely to get draft issues. Even a good setup might have problems with 51 outside!

 

[PapaDave]

Yeah, I get that. I'm going for it anyway.....just a small one. I HAVE to know.

 

[Danno77]

we don't do small around here. Load er up and let er rip!

 

[PapaDave]

I've got an assortment of fuel to use. Poplar, Spruce, W. Pine, Oak, Maple, but I'll stick with something that'll burn up pretty quick.

 

[rideau]

Did you put a key damper in the 6 inch pipe? Sounds like you did not. That short a run should not need a damper. IF there is one, I'd remove it and see if you still have a smoke issue.

 

[PapaDave]

Yep rideau, the damper is in the 6" stove pipe I put in 2 years ago.
That was part of the original question.....whether it may be causing a bit of an obstruction.
If my test doesn't work, that will come out and I'll go from there.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Sounds like a plan Dave.

 

[PapaDave]

Couldn't do the fire this morning.....Bev feel asleep in the Lazyboy last night and was there this morning too instead of coming to bed.
It was 47 when I got up too. Cool enough to do a test.

 

[Danno77]

lol. it's a long time between now and the frigid winter. Well, at least long enough to work this out. we'll get 'er later.

 

[PapaDave]

Yep, not super concerned. I dealt with it part of last winter, I can do it again if my re-cleaning of the baffle didn't help.

 

[PapaDave]

Well, bad news for me. Had a nice little kindling fire this a.m. with all the windows shut, 46 outside.
Let that burn down and added a pine split. When I opened the door to do that, out came the smoke. Yes, air wide open, door opened very slowly. I even tried with a nearby window opened. It's a 5' high slider (which I hate).
The fire was burning very nicely, and I was able to control it with the intake slide. Stove pipe (surface thermo) was at 330, and the stove was running about 400.
I know some of this can be attributed to the TD, but this isn't how the stove has behaved in the past.
I'm also not convinced it's merely the damper, but perhaps a combo of the new 6" Class A AND damper.
Next up, damper removal?
Might be able to convince myself to just put the old 8" Class A system back in.
I hate when I can't figure things out. I'm usually pretty good at it.
One thing at a time.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Starting with the damper removal is probably the simplest. Good luck.

 

[jeff_t]

If you still had the 8" flue, you could make a trip to Roscommon.

 

[nate379]

I generally wait till it's in the mid 30s at night before firing the stove for that reason.

the smaller the difference between indoor and outdoor temperature the more likely to get draft issues. Even a good setup might have problems with 51 outside!