TARM Solo Plus with water storage - need an Ohio plumber

[coldfeet1]

First post here so go easy on me.

I am looking to install a TARM Solo Plus 40 with water storage. I have abilities mechanically, but this looks like a job for someone who KNOWS their stuff when it comes to all the plumbing, etc. Anyone know of a good plumber in Northeastern Ohio?

 

[stee6043]

Everything you need is actually right here! I'm no plumber but after reading here for a few months I figured it out. Read on and save your money!

 

[coldfeet1]

Well I've read a ton. But there are so many questions. Like this one: I was going to go with an OWB which just pumps the hot water through a circuit and back to the boiler. But looking at the TARM with separate storage I find myself confused. I keep seeing DHW coils being dropped into the hot storage tank. Why can't the hot storage water be pumped through circuits including a heat exchange on the hot water heater? Please forgive me if I'm missing something here.

 

[Piker]

Well I've read a ton. But there are so many questions. Like this one: I was going to go with an OWB which just pumps the hot water through a circuit and back to the boiler. But looking at the TARM with separate storage I find myself confused. I keep seeing DHW coils being dropped into the hot storage tank. Why can't the hot storage water be pumped through circuits including a heat exchange on the hot water heater? Please forgive me if I'm missing something here.

On an atmospheric storage system, the water in the tank generally never goes anywhere... It's just used as a medium to store btus. This way, your heating zones as well as your boiler can be closed loop/pressurized systems. Closed loop systems do not suffer the corrosion issues that open systems do... basically once you get the ph right, and the oxygen removed from the water, you don't really have to mess with it again unless you add fresh water.

cheers

 

[coldfeet1]

OK, here's more... The only logical place I can put the boiler and storage is in my insulated pole barn (which I want to heat). The pole barn is 75' away from my house. Inside the 36 x 50 pole barn the boiler would be about 60' of 'run' from where I would leave the barn and go through Thermopex (correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) to the house. Do I have to run copper along the walls inside the barn to get to where it 'leaves' the barn and hits the Thermopex or, can I use PEX and doesn't either one have to be fully covered with the foam insulation? And can I just use the foam insulation tubes you get at Home Depot? Can they take the 185 degree heat?

Thanks a ton for your help.

 

[Piker]

OK, here's more... The only logical place I can put the boiler and storage is in my insulated pole barn (which I want to heat). The pole barn is 75' away from my house. Inside the 36 x 50 pole barn the boiler would be about 60' of 'run' from where I would leave the barn and go through Thermopex (correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) to the house. Do I have to run copper along the walls inside the barn to get to where it 'leaves' the barn and hits the Thermopex or, can I use PEX and doesn't either one have to be fully covered with the foam insulation? And can I just use the foam insulation tubes you get at Home Depot? Can they take the 185 degree heat?

Thanks a ton for your help.

Some people do all their piping with pex... I prefer to do all the near boiler piping and any manifold work with copper and/or black iron. As far as insulating the lines in the pole building... that's up to you, but generally a good idea to conserve btu's. Not sure what the foam insulation tubes at HD are rated for, but it's probably marked on the tube somewhere. I don't think they carry anything bigger than 1".

You may do some research on using a spray foam contractor to foam your pex lines right in the ground... generally alot cheaper than the thermopex... also insulates better, and much easier to work with. We have had good success with this method.

cheers

 

[Piker]

OH, and by the way... welcome to the forum... and congrats on the new solo plus boiler!

cheers

 

[pybyr]

First post here so go easy on me.

I am looking to install a TARM Solo Plus 40 with water storage. I have abilities mechanically, but this looks like a job for someone who KNOWS their stuff when it comes to all the plumbing, etc. Anyone know of a good plumber in Northeastern Ohio?

Wood gasification boilers and associated thermal storage are something that an average plumber or heating contractor may not necessarily have _any_ experience with.

It's not rocket science (though it is cool technology) but it is definitely outside of some of the regular assumed system parameters that are often done by "rules of thumb" in many US residential hydronic heat systems.

If you are good at learning technical concepts and building things, then the folks on here will help you "get there."

 

[coldfeet1]

Thanks Pyro. I've sweated my share of copper, installed a Generac generator, etc. But the diagrams, drawings, and ton's of 'tweaking' is a little intimidating. Regardless, I know we're cold with just a wood insert and propane fallback with propane water heater. I spend $200 a month in propane to be freezing with the insert and don't even get me going on the electric bill with 2 Charmglow electric heaters in the far ends of the house which run at 100% and we're still cold. I need some serious heat baby!

 

[pybyr]

PS: one thing to definitely consider relative to storage- and to look at early-- has to do with what your heat emitters are (and the size and heat demands of your heated space).

If you have radiant floor, or radiant panels or cast iron radiators, you will be able to extract useful heat from storage even as the temperature of the storage drops considerably. If you have forced air (which would involve using a water to air heat exchanger) or baseboards, you will have a more challenging time getting much useful heat output as the temperature of the storage drops.

This leads to important choices as to both type of storage (pressurized vs. unpressurized) and size of storage.

If your heat emitters only work over a narrow range of relatively hot temperatures, pressurized storage (if you are able to go with that) will potentially let you more readily "bank" more water at the highest possible temperatures). Also, if your heat emitters only work over a narrow range of relatively hot temperatures, you'll need larger storage than if you can make use of storage all the way down to relatively low temperatures.

There are lots of inter-acting variables, too. For example, you'd ordinarily want storage in or under living space so that the inevitable heat loss will go to practical use, but if you're dealing with existing construction, then it may be more difficult to shoehorn large pressure-capable vessels into the desired location.

Keep reading and asking questions and this will all start to make sense.