The GARN has landed.

[Jim K in PA]

I made the trip up to Mansfield, PA to get my GARN WHS 2000 last Friday. Loading was a breeze. Unloading was a bit more work

Here is a link to my web page for the unit. the move pics are on the second page (link at bottom of first page).

Here is a teaser pic:

Now the work REALLY begins . . .

 

[pybyr]

Congratulations Jim!

I know how excited I was when my Econoburn 150 arrived a few weeks ago (though, unfortunately, ever since, the rest of life, especially the job that pays the bills, has conspired to keep me from moving very far with actual work to install it- ugh)

you know you're serious about alt-heating wheh, as in your case, your high efficiency wood-burning heat source dwarfs the tow vehicle you bring it home with

 

[Sawyer]

Hey Jim,

You put a smile on my face watching you load and unload the Garn, thank you!

Everything looks well planned and makes me a little more reassured I made the right choice. Are you going to place it on 2” foamboard?

Looking forward to the next photos, George

 

[sinnian]

:exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim: IMPRESSIVE :exclaim: :exclaim: :exclaim:

I am looking forward to the rest of the story :ahhh:

 

[smokinj]

Thats a monster!

 

[stee6043]

That thing is massive! Wow. Impressive seeing you guys get that thing off the trailer. Quite a process...

 

[machinistbcb]

Jim,

I can relate to the difficulty of moving these big tanks around. Your move looked a lot more smoother than mine.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Thanks for the compliments. The off-loading process really was just an exercise in patience and methodology. It's big, it's heavy, so treat it with care and respect and you can't go too wrong. I wound up deflating the tires on the left side of the trailer to level the deck with the shed floor. Then we had to pull the trailer out from under the GARN, as we needed to drop it down level to clear the top hatch. I wound up disconnecting the trailer from the Commander, and using the backhoe on my JD to coax it out from under gently. It worked like a charm. The last few feet we were able to roll it pretty easily.

George - yes, I am putting foam board under the unit, which is why it is still up on the jack and the 2x6s and pipe roller. The enclosure is real tight around the GARN, and I am very happy about that. I will fill all the empty space with unfaced FG batts. I will add a sheet of foam board between the electric service line and the tank, too.

Machinistbcb - that is some tank you moved! It looks at least as heavy as the GARN, and mine weighs 4400 lbs.

Overall I am very pleased with the GARN's construction and quality. The welds all look good, and there is nice attention to detail. I did not get all of the components with it, as some are on back order, and I think they forgot a couple of others. It arrives with the firebox packed with parts and pieces. The control panel wiring looked very nice and clean.

I will post some more pics of the components in a couple of days. I have more crap going on right now than I can keep straight. Tomorrow AM I have to go pick up a Jeep that my son just bought (with a loan from M&D ) with the same trailer. Then in the afternoon I go and pick up my 300' roll of 1.25" PEX.

Trenching starts Wednesday.

 

[brad068]

The best way to move these things is with steel pipe and some leverage. Me and three others moved the new kids 3000 gallon unit in the overhead, to the back wall, left around the old boiler, striaght, then right, and finally striaght back into its final position. We did it all with 4, 5-6' pieces of 4" casing under the unit and leveraged with 4x4s. Mind you this was about a 40' trip on recycled blacktop that was more like sand than pavement. But well worth it! ;-)

The new kid is as happy as a pig in chit!

He just loves to do what he calls "his controlled burns" @ 20:00 hrs.

 

[chrisfallis]

I am wondering what kind of insulation goes under this beast and how you keep that insulation from getting crushed. I would think that you could install the boiler on blocks a few inches off the floor, but then the blocks would transfer a filled weight of between 7 and 17 tons onto the blocks and then onto your floor. I would rather distribute that weight evenly and widely to a concrete floor. Various folks have talked about wrapping these boilers with fiberglass or loose fill insulation, and that is a fairly easy process for the sides and top of the machine. Where I see a weakness is the big warm radiant surface on the bottom trying to heat my garage floor instead of my house.

Another question relates to the day to day usage of the boiler. In the rear of the firebox is an apparently fragile ceramic secondary combustion chamber. In my last all metal firebox I could toss and stuff wood into it without real fear of damage. Has anyone thought of stacking up firebrick in the back of the box to form a protective “lip” around the leading edge of that ceramic? I am just thinking that I might be careful and explain to my family how to carefully loading the boiler to avoid damage, but someone, sometime, is just going to be pissed off and cold on a February morning, and won’t be so delicate about wood loading practices.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Good morning Chris. Your questions are well timed. See below.

I am wondering what kind of insulation goes under this beast and how you keep that insulation from getting crushed. I would think that you could install the boiler on blocks a few inches off the floor, but then the blocks would transfer a filled weight of between 7 and 17 tons onto the blocks and then onto your floor. I would rather distribute that weight evenly and widely to a concrete floor. Various folks have talked about wrapping these boilers with fiberglass or loose fill insulation, and that is a fairly easy process for the sides and top of the machine. Where I see a weakness is the big warm radiant surface on the bottom trying to heat my garage floor instead of my house.

I will have pics up on Monday when I can upload them at work (where I have a real computer) to show you how mine is set up. Absolutely, you need a thermal break between the base of the GARN and the concrete slab. You CANNOT point load the GARN when it is full of water. My GARN sits on 2" of blue board foam insulation. Yep - foam board. Not the crappy white bead styro used for packaging, but the higher density, homogenous insulating board. It has a compressive strength rating of ~3100psf, well within the limits of the weight of a WHS 2000. GARN recommends 1.5" under the unit. I installed 2-1" layers, as I could not find any 1.5" thick blue board locally. The ends and sides/top will be insulated with faced and unfaced FG batts.

Another question relates to the day to day usage of the boiler. In the rear of the firebox is an apparently fragile ceramic secondary combustion chamber. In my last all metal firebox I could toss and stuff wood into it without real fear of damage. Has anyone thought of stacking up firebrick in the back of the box to form a protective “lip” around the leading edge of that ceramic? I am just thinking that I might be careful and explain to my family how to carefully loading the boiler to avoid damage, but someone, sometime, is just going to be pissed off and cold on a February morning, and won’t be so delicate about wood loading practices.

I am sure it is possible to do exactly as you say, but the secondary tube is low and offset at the back of the GARN, and should not be in harms way, unless you are very sloppy or very angry. I don't think slamming sticks into any stove is a good idea, but the GARN could certainly suffer some damage to the ceramic if you were sloppy. Another point with the GARN is that with the fan running, air is being drawn INTO the fire box. I have not had a burn in mine yet so this is purely speculative on my part, but you should not be getting blasted in the face with hot combustion byproducts when the door is open, so can take a little more time to load the box carefully.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sawyer]

Hi Jim,

Have you thought of putting vermiculite in the curved area of the base? Paul reccomended I do that when mine arrives. He said it fills the void and warned about the cellelose insulation which contains acid which can harm the boiler. Maybe this is unnessary in your situation.

George

 

[chrisfallis]

....Another point with the GARN is that with the fan running, air is being drawn INTO the fire box. I have not had a burn in mine yet so this is purely speculative on my part, but you should not be getting blasted in the face with hot combustion byproducts when the door is open, so can take a little more time to load the box carefully.

I saw a Garn 2000 being operated last fall in Santa Fe, NM and you are correct about the induction fan sucking the smoke into the chimney instead of letting it pour out the loading door. I did witness a small puff of smoke when the Garn door was opened, leading to a slight haze in the boiler room. If you look at the Garn movie or other in-service unit photos you will see a smoke stain just above the firebox door. Not much, certainly not like the black rolling clouds that can come out the front of a smoke dragon, but it is an issue. I would think that slowly opening the loading door would prevent most of that, as it did when I had a Tarm boiler. Sometimes, though, you get impatient and are rewarded with a room full of haze.

I will also point out that once a good bed of coals was established in the firebox there was not a lot of desire to load the firebox at a leisurely pace. Standing 3 or 4 feet away from the open loading door I thought I was staring into the gates of Hades itself. The radiant heat was so much that I had to cover my face if I wanted to get close enough to chuck more fuel in. This was definitely a toss and run scenario.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Hi Jim,

Have you thought of putting vermiculite in the curved area of the base? Paul reccomended I do that when mine arrives. He said it fills the void and warned about the cellelose insulation which contains acid which can harm the boiler. Maybe this is unnessary in your situation.

George

I am sure the vermiculite would be easier, but I was not impressed with it's insulative capacity. I also have heard of the potential cellulose acidity issue. It will be a bit more work, but I am going to layer FG in alternating directions to reduce convection to nil. The FG will also make my life easier when I need to remove it to inspect fittings, etc. I'll post pictures of my insulation install. I spent all day today framing the walls of the enclosure and the wood/loading"room". Things are moving along, except for my PEX. It was supposed to be here today - but no.

 

[Jim K in PA]

I will also point out that once a good bed of coals was established in the firebox there was not a lot of desire to load the firebox at a leisurely pace. Standing 3 or 4 feet away from the open loading door I thought I was staring into the gates of Hades itself. The radiant heat was so much that I had to cover my face if I wanted to get close enough to chuck more fuel in. This was definitely a toss and run scenario.

Good point. I don't know how often I will be re-loading my GARN after it is cranking along. I did look at the fire box after I responded this AM, and I was mistaken about the secondary chamber. It is at the bottom of the fire box, but it is not offset. It is dead center, and I can see how a hard hit with a big chunk of wood could damage it. In fact the label on the GARN advises you to load carefully to avoid damage.

Maybe get one of those hot suits the volcanologists use?

 

[TCaldwell]

the secondary burn chamber ceramic tubes are vacuum formed, and actually will take a moderate amount of abuse, i originally shared your concerns and bought a spare set, $60.00 two years later they are still in the box.

 

[Jim K in PA]

More pics of the GARN enclosure, and insulation (not all done yet). Still waiting for my roll of 1.25" PEX . . . :long:

Click this link for a page of pictures.

Sample:

I am also still waiting for the intake air ductwork and the wall shield for the flue. Both are on b/o from GARN. I should have just sourced them locally.

For Chris - the insulation under the floor: